Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Ra» Forums » Rules

Subject: Are face-down suns public or private information? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Leo S.
Chile
Valdivia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Should face-down suns considered to be hidden or are they public information?
Can others players look at them? Can you look at your own suns?

Sure you could keep track of which sun each player has taken, but for zero-memory players like me this doesn't even deserve a try.

The thing is -at least on my edition- that each wooden sun has his own vein pattern on the back, so some of them are pretty recognizable face-down.
I think this could be an issue especially on the third epoch trying to calculate current sun scores.

Should we hide face-down suns for not affecting gameplay or am I over exaggerating?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Billy McBoatface
United States
Lexington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
KGS is the #1 web site for playing go over the internet. Visit now!
badge
Yes, I really am that awesome.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The rules say face down suns are hidden, but since everybody else sees what you get, it's not going to break the game if you make them non-hidden. Ours have the wood patterns on the back also, but AFAIK nobody in my gaming group has bothered to memorize which sun has which pattern.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Sanders
United States
Henderson
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
DNA results:Scottish, Dutch, English, Irish, German, French, Iberian Peninsula = 100% American!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really don't think, after 60 plays, that knowing exactly the value of the sun tiles is that important. You don't really know what everyone is going to score until virtually right before the last tiles are drawn for the auction track, and by then the sun tiles are all taken.

The sun tile bonus or penalty can make a difference in final scoring, but only with very close scores. I'd focus more on set collecting, than worrying about sun tile values, as you may get distracted from bidding for a nice auction because you didn't want to let go of a high value sun tile.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hans Moleman
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
I was saying boo-urns
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hidden. It's why it's face down.

But I'm in the group that says it doesn't really matter in the end.

I guess you can argue for sun scoring in the end, but you should really pay attention to what sun-tiles people grab during the very last round. Almost every is open knowledge, so that shouldn't be too difficult to track. Just keep a keen on whomever gets the extremely low and high suntiles. This small amount of memorization really won't give anyone a major advantage. Since a lot of the game is pushing your luck.

If I have a shot at the sun bonus I'll try for it, otherwise, I really just avoid getting the penalty. All my games I've played, it was quite evident whom was going to get the short end of the stick.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomello Visello
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
alerce wrote:
Should face-down suns considered to be hidden or are they public information?
Can others players look at them? Can you look at your own suns?

I tend to {shrug} at finely narrowed questions like this. In the absence of other specified instructions, consider how similar situations work across many other games:

** Common items "Face Down" (or even Face Up in a discard pile) are hidden to all

** My personal "Face Down" items are hidden from other players but may be readily examined by me.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomello Visello
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Long quote with a simple highlight for reference:

The player with the highest bid, takes all tiles on the auction track (if there are any) and places them face up in his play area. Use the example on the next page when placing the tiles in your play area as this will make scoring easier later in the game. He also takes the sun from the center of the board and places it face down in his play area. Face down suns cannot be used for the remainder of this epoch, but will be turned face up at the beginning of the next epoch. The player then places the sun he bid face up on the sun space in the middle of the board.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddie the Cranky Gamer
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
KingD21 wrote:
Hidden. It's why it's face down.


I read that it has been used is why it is face down in this game. I would not prohibit players from having a look at their own. But I wouldn't declare them open information in that others can demand a look.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hans Moleman
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
I was saying boo-urns
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
apotheos wrote:
KingD21 wrote:
Hidden. It's why it's face down.


I read that it has been used is why it is face down in this game. I would not prohibit players from having a look at their own. But I wouldn't declare them open information in that others can demand a look.



Figured that was assumed but I guess it needs to be said. The player can look at THEIR facedown suntiles only.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Leo S.
Chile
Valdivia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for all your input.
I see face-down suns are in general considered hidden information as I supposed indeed. So the problem of the recognizable face-down sun is actually present. Thanks anyway for pointing out, that it shouldn't be game-breaking.

The thing is some of my wooden suns are really recognizable face-down, the most notorius beeing a thick black stripe on one back. I was maybe hoping to hear there were some sort of public information rule on new rulebooks which would made this marks irrelevant. Anyway, I will judge with time if it is necessary to hide the face-down suns even more or if it isn't relevant in gameplay.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Caleb
United States
Seminole
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alerce wrote:
Thanks for all your input.
I see face-down suns are in general considered hidden information as I supposed indeed. So the problem of the recognizable face-down sun is actually present. Thanks anyway for pointing out, that it shouldn't be game-breaking.

The thing is some of my wooden suns are really recognizable face-down, the most notorius beeing a thick black stripe on one back. I was maybe hoping to hear there were some sort of public information rule on new rulebooks which would made this marks irrelevant. Anyway, I will judge with time if it is necessary to hide the face-down suns even more or if it isn't relevant in gameplay.


Certain electronic implementations don't hide the suns, and the game still works fine.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.