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Subject: Asymmetrical card game rss

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matheus cohen
Brazil
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Hi, i need a quick opnion based on production viability and gameplay.

I'm designing a card fighting game. The gameplay in itself you can think on yomi.it's not really like it but you can have an idea of the basics.

My questions is, each character has a really different gameplay.
Every character has custom 32-card deck, but may or may not have more custom cards.
Like:
The mage has his 32 cards but also 4 cards that are used completely different than others (super magics that are charging through the match)

The fighter has his 32 cards, but also has 5 extra cards that is only available when he transforms (power ranger style), and 5 other that are swaped with 5 specific ones from his 32 main deck when he transf.

I could go on with this but i think there wouldn't be a point. (Unless for marketing reasons )

Anyway, my point is, from a production point of view, having different deck sizes would matter so much? In a single game box i think wouldn't, but if there were ever any character expansion, each would have a sightly different card count.

I don't really want to make everyone with say...40 cards incluind the extras, because that would kinda block me from doing some asymmetric things i want. The mage wouldn't need the extra cards but the fighter would need even more.



From a gameplay point, apart from maybe a envy feeling of 'why my character has only 35 while yours has 40 cards?', does this kind of asymmetrical feel seems good? I know i didn't give much info about the game, but having each character playing completely different appeal to you?

I'm not talking different in 'character A uses a hit'n 'run strategy and B uses a soak and punish one.', and more like the mage tries to fill his magic cards so he can deal dmg, while the fighter tries to transform so he can do something else than just getting beat.


Anyway, for any interest, see www.singlesuit.weebly.com/breakpoint i haven't updated it on a while due to no computer and playtesting season.

Sorry for any grammar error and maybe lack of context on the game!
 
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Sturv Tafvherd
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Yeah, That isn't really "assymterical".

I don't have a problem with players having different sized decks.

Back when my group first started playing Netrunner (as a CCG), the number of cards in our decks varied depending on the theme and variety of cards we wanted. Yes, we might have broken a few deckbuilding rules... but it made for interesting games.
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Jeremy Lennert
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I believe most manufacturers print cards in sheets of some fixed size (possibly depending on the size of the card and the kind of stock it's printed on). 54 is a common size because it's used for poker decks, but I've seen several others.

If you add a few more cards, and it causes you to go from needing 1 sheet of cards to needing 2, the price is probably going to go up a lot. On the other hand, if you remove a few cards, but not enough to use fewer total sheets, the cost probably stays the same.

Making a character with a few less cards than normal is probably not hard, but also probably won't be any cheaper than a character with the regular number, so if you can use those cards for anything at all (even just as reference sheets or advertisements or something), then you probably might as well.

Crossing a sheet boundary to give one character a few extra cards is probably not worth it unless you really, really need those few extra cards.

Of course, you won't know what the magical boundary is until you choose a manufacturer, so you might want to try to be flexible regarding the exact number of cards each character will have. (Or at least be flexible about the size of one deck of cards included in your game.)
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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Stormtower wrote:
Yeah, That isn't really "assymterical".

I don't have a problem with players having different sized decks.

Back when my group first started playing Netrunner (as a CCG), the number of cards in our decks varied depending on the theme and variety of cards we wanted. Yes, we might have broken a few deckbuilding rules... but it made for interesting games.



Yeah, ithought asymmetrical was kinda wrong, but as i'm not a native speaker i went for it lol

The idea is that each character has different sized decks, so it doens't really involve the building.

Though, each having different playstyles and mechanics would not be fit on asymmetrical? I know it's not trove but come'n


 
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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Antistone wrote:
I believe most manufacturers print cards in sheets of some fixed size (possibly depending on the size of the card and the kind of stock it's printed on). 54 is a common size because it's used for poker decks, but I've seen several others.

If you add a few more cards, and it causes you to go from needing 1 sheet of cards to needing 2, the price is probably going to go up a lot. On the other hand, if you remove a few cards, but not enough to use fewer total sheets, the cost probably stays the same.

Making a character with a few less cards than normal is probably not hard, but also probably won't be any cheaper than a character with the regular number, so if you can use those cards for anything at all (even just as reference sheets or advertisements or something), then you probably might as well.

Crossing a sheet boundary to give one character a few extra cards is probably not worth it unless you really, really need those few extra cards.

Of course, you won't know what the magical boundary is until you choose a manufacturer, so you might want to try to be flexible regarding the exact number of cards each character will have. (Or at least be flexible about the size of one deck of cards included in your game.)


Must say that everytime i post, your answers is always really helpful and i'm really thankful

Well, it's not like i won't be flexible, i just liked this difference feeling...of course i'm hoping that this doesn't mess up my prices...
I'm certain that i could use the extra cards for some flavour/reference, but maybe players would also be like 'why my character doesn't come with those'...maybe i would put some marketing for other projects


One thing i don't want to do but i just can't think of a reason of why not is:
(Using mentioned cards)
If the fighter uses 42 cards total and the mage 36...why not just give 6 more cards to the mage...no one would say a few more choices would be bad... still, i like the 'not the same' feeling


 
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Jim McCollum
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If you are using print on demand services like http://www.drivethrucards.com/ or https://www.thegamecrafter.com/ then it won't matter at all. They can do decks of any size for the same per-card price. This is a good option for prototypes. We used Drive-Thru Cards for the prototype for our game, Ameritocracy, which had 240 cards. Although it was about as expensive to print our cards on paper, cut them, and sleeve them with old CCG cards, we liked being able to write on the cards.

I'm not sure if you've been working on this game longer than the blog posts for Breakpoint on your website indicate, but it seems like you're about two months into this project. You might be faster or more perceptive than us, but we made a lot of tweaks based on play testing at this stage. So, I wouldn't worry too much about the feasibility of printing and manufacturing your game. What you want to do is definitely possible. However, it's possible that your plans might change (maybe the Mage gets fewer cards, etc.) as you work more on your game, and thinking too much about printing might bias you. You want to make the game into what it wants to be, not what the printer wants.

That's just my opinion, feel free to ignore, especially if you've been working on this game for longer.

As far as your game play questions, I have no problem with characters having different numbers of cards. I actually think that's an under-used mechanic in CCG/strategy card games. More cards means a deck is more variable, and, theoretically less efficient. Might be flavorful for a big, lumbering character.

If every character had a different deck size, it would be cool if that mattered in some way. If it's just a few characters who have some special cards, then that's fine.

Basically, I'm willing to tolerate most anything if it's balanced and interesting.
 
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matheus cohen
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I have been working on my current projects for about 2-3 years. I have currently 3 'wip' there, 2 being old ones and 1 really new one. But the blog is really new because i just wanted a place to put my thoughts and i thought 'why not?'

It's not really just a few, but more like all the real flavor of the character is in those extra cards. Even though all 32 are thematic and character specific, those 4 cards are what makes the mage feels and plays different from a fighter...

Glad to hear your opnion! I'll also see if there is anything i can do about the blog looking like a brand new project modest


 
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Jamie Vantries
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Check out BattleCON: War of Indines. It's a fighting game where many of the characters have different numbers of cards.
 
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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I know the game, didn't know the card number thing! Never noticed!
 
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