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Subject: C3i Counters rss

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Will H
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I am very new to the world of wargaming, and I just discovered Combat Commander. Wow! What a series! I've been picking up the expansions, which haven't been hard to find, but when it comes to the material included in C3i magazine, that is a different story. Since so many issues are OOP and difficult to track down, I fear my collection will be incomplete. Of course, I have been able to track down rules and scenarios through GMT's C3i ops center, which is great. My main concern is the counters. I've contacted GMT to ask if there are any leftovers in stock, but I had no luck. Is there any legal way to access scans of the counters in C3i? I understand perfectly well why GMT would not want to make those scans available, but I think it would be nice if they were, since it seems unlikely that those counters will ever be reprinted.
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Victorius Deplorable
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Have you checked ebay. I purchased a few older ones a few years back. Also, one issue's scenarios were later reissued in a future magazine. I can't remember which one.
 
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Chris Montgomery
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I don't think C3i releases scans of any of the counters. The best bet (though very expensive!) is to purchase back-issues of second-hand copies, or to post to a geeklist like this one:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/187850/wargamers-part...

Good luck -- it will take some doing, but you should be able to get everything at reasonable prices at some point, with a little patience.
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Will H
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Thanks for the feedback, Kenneth and Chris. I feared that my only option would be to track the counters down individually by purchasing used copies of C3i. The expense of it all is off-putting though. As much as I enjoy CC, it is difficult to justify spending potentially $100+ just for some optional counters. Obviously, if I could find a good deal, I'd jump on it, but otherwise I'd rather put that money toward some GHQ wargaming miniatures or something on GMT's P500 list.
 
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Orion J.N. Winder
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I don't remember any counters that came with the magazine for CC, that weren't either included in a later expansion or (not sure either?) just reprinted/corrected ones??? I know that there were a bunch of scenarios that came in the mags.

I've all the expansions and mags since CC came out, but they're mixed all mixed into the "playboxes" so if any were unique to the mag & game they would just be in the mix too.

Anyone enlighten me, just for my curiosity? It might be helpful to the OP also as either easing his worry or perhaps giving him knowledge about exactly what he needs to search for.
 
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Ask GMT directly. I think some of the C3i countersheet images are on their Inside GMT website but I'm not sure if they're complete with both front and back side or what the resolution might be.
 
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Will H
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You may be correct, Orion. I'm still new to wargaming as a whole and CC in particular. I thought I read something about counters being included in previous C3i magazines. It all is a bit confusing though. For instance, C3i #21 says that it comes with "26 optional units," but when I looked at the low resolution B&W counter scan included in the magazine (which is included in the pdf of the CC:E variant rules - hosted on the C3i ops center), there are no combat units - just 26 markers (rubble, starshells, etc.).
 
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Orion J.N. Winder
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Ludwig431 wrote:
You may be correct, Orion. I'm still new to wargaming as a whole and CC in particular. I thought I read something about counters being included in previous C3i magazines. It all is a bit confusing though. For instance, C3i #21 says that it comes with "26 optional units," but when I looked at the low resolution B&W counter scan included in the magazine (which is included in the pdf of the CC:E variant rules - hosted on the C3i ops center), there are no combat units - just 26 markers (rubble, starshells, etc.).


C3i is a confusing magazine anyway (though EXCELLENT I must add!). laugh And I've played wargames since either the early 60's or late 50's (there is some confusion in notes in my early games that I played with my uncle... so not quite sure EXACTLY the year the beast rose...)

I did note in a quick look-through that Fall of the West noted that the optional counters were to be found in C3i #26, which might still be available from GMT. (Course the OTHER thing DANGEROUS about a wargaming mag is that you MIGHT see other games that you just must have...laugh)

BTW, IMHO you may be new, but you've jumped on a great game, that I believe will shine for a long time (and I say that about SO few of the newer generation of games laugh)
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Chris Montgomery
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For those with questions on what was included in C3i, check out this geeklist:

The Complete Combat Commander List

And this entry, specifically:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/38395/item/835150#ite...

Nrs. 21 and 26 appear to be the only ones with counters. I recall that two sets of counters were (1) tanks for a specific C3i scenario, and (2) a evolutionary campaign in which you leaders can gain experience - though not sure how many counters that was. For those sets of counters, you would also need the accompanying issue of the magazine to make any use of them.

C3i Nr. 21 also comes with variant rules and a corrected map (#18).

C3i 21 and 26 should still be available.

Now if you want all the scenarios that have been published in C3i, that's a bit more expensive . . .
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Ruben Rigillo
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I remember Molotov counters and some Others I have to check.
Personally I hunted down all the back issues with CC stuff......
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Will H
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Thanks for the helpful replies. My lack of experience of the system was showing! Incidentally, I was able to contact GMT and pick up a copy of map #29 for about $9.50 (that price includes shipping) - not bad. As for the counters, I may have to do some poking around. I was worried there may be a large collection of counters for combat units floating around in past issues of C3i, and I did not want to miss out on that. It doesn't look like I have too much to worry about though.

EDIT: I apologize for asking a question that could have been answered by a closer reading of The Complete Combat Commander List. I actually read the list prior to posting, but then when I saw the "optional units" mentioned in the pdf of the CC:E variant rules, I got confused, as I did not see any mention of "optional units" in the Complete List - nor anywhere else on the CC forums, for that matter. I misinterpreted the term "optional units" to mean optional combat units.
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Chris Montgomery
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To enjoy the game, you really need not buy anything more than the Combat Commander: Europe. Mediterranean is nice for additional nationalities, as is Pacific. But the Random Scenario Generator (RSG) provides nearly endless play right out of the base game box.

Enjoy. And welcome to the great community of CC players.
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Lee Massey
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I would check with Noble Knight games for older magazines and games. You can make an account and make up a want list. They will e-mail you when a item becomes available.
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Joe Hepp
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There are plenty of C3i subscribers that don't use all the materials that come with the magazine.

I know I've seen people on the GMT topic on Consimworld (is there a similar GMT place here on BGG?) asking if there are any people not using the components of game X or people offering up components of game Y because they don't need them.
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Orion J.N. Winder
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From my issues besides articles about CC the things a completest would be missing are as follows:

C3i #19 x1 Scenario 103 (reprinted in C3i #23)

C3i #20 x1 counter (British Hvy MG), x2 Scenarios (104 & 105)

C3i #21 x26 counters (10x Mol. Cocktail, 10x Rubble, 2x Mortar Spotter [1 Germ./1 Allies], 4x Starshell), x2 Scenarios (106 & 107), Map #29 & #18 (corrected), Varient Rules for CC:E

C3i #22 x2 Scenarios (108 & 109), CC: P Counter Manifest

C3i #23 x2 Scenarios (110 & 103*reprint)

C3i #24 x2 Scenarios (111 & 112)

C3i #25 x2 Scenarios *for CC: P (113 & 114)

C3i #26 x15 counters (4x Apulomet, 2x Panzerfaust, 4x PIAT, 5x "Armor" (for Fall of West BP#5 optional counters)), x2 Scenarios (115 & 116), Scenarios Operations Map & Terrain Chart

C3i #27 x4 Scenarios (117-120)

C3i #28 x9 counters (personal leaders 1 each nation), x2 Scenarios (121 & 122), Campaign player aid sheet, Campaign Rules & Charts

So far the listings I've seen didn't have every counter etc. listed, and of course this could be missing items also, but I went over the mags pretty anally.
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Jeff Binning
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I'd easily pay $50 or more for a compilation of all CC articles, scenarios, and extra game pieces previously published in C3i.

I wonder if GMT would consider publishing something like that, similar to the Paths of Glory Player's Guide.
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Will H
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I agree with you, Jeff. It would be really cool if GMT published a compilation of C3i materials. And $50-$70 seems to be a reasonable price range. Hopefully someone from the company is reading this thread whistle
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OrionDD wrote:
C3i #26 x15 counters (4x Apulomet, 2x Panzerfaust, 4x PIAT, 5x "Armor" (for Fall of West BP#5 optional counters)), x2 Scenarios (115 & 116), Scenarios Operations Map & Terrain Chart
Thanks for making this list. I have this C3i issue, but wasn't aware of the Operations Map & Terrain chart that was included. Bonus!
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James
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I think they managed to put an error somewhere on the TEC (regarding hedges and fences maybe) so watch out for that - otherwise, it's about the only useful CC item you can get form the mag. The operations map is of no use or importance whatsoever. The optional rules and counters are, I believe, covered in the various battlepacks (rubble in Stalingrad, starshells in Normandie). The scenarios are not essential due to the unlimited number of RSG scenarios and large numbed or scenarios in battlepacks and 2-4 per mag is not worth 20 quid.

The leader counters are only useful if you want to use those particular campaign rules. Maybe worth giving yourself the option if you also fancy USE Case Blue. The tank counters are the same size as the support weapon counters so look a bit silly pootling around with these giant infantry units but they're probably better than nothing.

C3i is basically a bit of a rip off unless you're heavily into CC and GBOH and C&C but that hasn't stopped me from spaffing cash on it.
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Orion J.N. Winder
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moujamou wrote:
I think they managed to put an error somewhere on the TEC (regarding hedges and fences maybe) so watch out for that - otherwise, it's about the only useful CC item you can get form the mag. The operations map is of no use or importance whatsoever. The optional rules and counters are, I believe, covered in the various battlepacks (rubble in Stalingrad, starshells in Normandie). The scenarios are not essential due to the unlimited number of RSG scenarios and large numbed or scenarios in battlepacks and 2-4 per mag is not worth 20 quid.

The leader counters are only useful if you want to use those particular campaign rules. Maybe worth giving yourself the option if you also fancy USE Case Blue. The tank counters are the same size as the support weapon counters so look a bit silly pootling around with these giant infantry units but they're probably better than nothing.

C3i is basically a bit of a rip off unless you're heavily into CC and GBOH and C&C but that hasn't stopped me from spaffing cash on it.


I don't really agree at all. I think it's an excellent house rag if you enjoy GMT games, at least as good as the General for it's time. I always enjoy the different articles even if I don't have the game & it lets me see if perhaps I should. And the sometimes game, mounted counters, inserts galore, variants, and sundry goodies are just more fun in the mix.

And it seems that I'm not alone here, as the issues out of print bring a pretty hefty premium.

(and to their credit and praise they seem to be slowly making the out of print items available for downloading/viewing, self printing, all EXCELLENT things IMHO)
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OrionDD wrote:

I think it's an excellent house rag if you enjoy GMT games


This is true. If you're a GMT fanboy it's excellent. If you don't buy much of their stuff it is much less attractive.

My point was that the Combat Commander stuff alone is absolutely not worth the price on the cover.
 
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Orion J.N. Winder
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moujamou wrote:
OrionDD wrote:

I think it's an excellent house rag if you enjoy GMT games


This is true. If you're a GMT fanboy it's excellent. If you don't buy much of their stuff it is much less attractive.

My point was that the Combat Commander stuff alone is absolutely not worth the price on the cover.


I don't believe that I'd be able to carry off the title "fanboy", and to me it sounds abit derogatory at best.

I'm 61, so "boy" is quite out, I do have some GMT games and their service has been superb, but neither fact of which would be enough to carry the term in any kinda of honest evaluation of my tastes.

I do own and play, C&C:A & N, SPQR, CC:E/M & P, and a total of 15 GMT games, but compared to the volume of others, such as approx. 200 from Avalon Hill, 80+ from SPI, within a collection of close to 1000 games, I'd hardly accept realistically of being called a "fanboy". Someone would probably look somewhat foolish if they determined me such when looking through my collection.

Neither do the GMT ones hit the table to a larger extent than others, though there are some EXCELLENT systems that GMT has published and sold.
Nope, not a "fanboy", just give credit where it's due.
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OrionDD wrote:
I don't believe that I'd be able to carry off the title "fanboy", and to me it sounds abit derogatory at best.


It wasn't meant to.

OrionDD wrote:
I'm 61, so "boy" is quite out,


Chin up, old boy.

OrionDD wrote:
I do have some GMT games and their service has been superb,


Same here, and I agree.

OrionDD wrote:
but neither fact of which would be enough to carry the term in any kinda of honest evaluation of my tastes.


Ok, it's a throwaway term, not really heavy with meaning.

OrionDD wrote:
I do own and play, C&C:A & N, SPQR, CC:E/M & P, and a total of 15 GMT games, but compared to the volume of others, such as approx. 200 from Avalon Hill, 80+ from SPI, within a collection of close to 1000 games, I'd hardly accept realistically of being called a "fanboy". Someone would probably look somewhat foolish if they determined me such when looking through my collection.


Alright. It's not a big deal.

OrionDD wrote:
Neither do the GMT ones hit the table to a larger extent than others, though there are some EXCELLENT systems that GMT has published and sold.
Nope, not a "fanboy", just give credit where it's due.


Understood completely.

My point was that the Combat Commander stuff alone is absolutely not worth the price on the cover.
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Orion J.N. Winder
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moujamou wrote:
OrionDD wrote:
I don't believe that I'd be able to carry off the title "fanboy", and to me it sounds abit derogatory at best.


It wasn't meant to.

OrionDD wrote:
I'm 61, so "boy" is quite out,


Chin up, old boy.


Perhaps it's a cultural/language difference, but here in the South using the word "boy" at all in addressing someone will probably find you looking at them from a totally different perspective, closer to the ground most likely... gulp

But then us riders could sometimes be "good ole boys"... Who can figure? arrrh
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You must be in a different part of the south than I. Ain't nothing wrong with "boy."
OrionDD wrote:
moujamou wrote:
OrionDD wrote:
I don't believe that I'd be able to carry off the title "fanboy", and to me it sounds abit derogatory at best.


It wasn't meant to.

OrionDD wrote:
I'm 61, so "boy" is quite out,


Chin up, old boy.


Perhaps it's a cultural/language difference, but here in the South using the word "boy" at all in addressing someone will probably find you looking at them from a totally different perspective, closer to the ground most likely... gulp

But then us riders could sometimes be "good ole boys"... Who can figure? arrrh
 
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