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Subject: Another "End of round" question. rss

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Jeff M
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After reading the many threads on this question and the "stalemate" question, I still have some more questions.

3rd edition rules.

Phase 4; "Discard cards from hand".

"If a player has no Mercenary cards in his hand, he may choose to discard all cards in his hand.
Discarding is not required..but is instead just an option for players with no Mercenary cards.
If a player has one or more Mercenary cards in his hand, he may not discard his hand."

Questions;

a) There is no mention of the discarding player re-drawing their hand at that time.
I take it if you discard your hand, you do NOT at that point in time get to re-draw back up to 10 (+...depending on how many territories you control).. but still have to wait till till the "End of Round" phase triggers and everybody redraws?

b) If you DON'T get to redraw your hand at that time, why would you choose to discard your hand? Nobody else knows that you don't have any Mercenary cards in your hand.
You can still affect battles.
You will get to re-draw along with everybody else at the "End of Round" phase.
What advantage is gained by discarding your hand "early"?

"End of a Round"

"A round ends when, after the “Discard Cards from
Hand” step of a battle’s resolution, only one player
(or no player) has cards remaining in his hand. If
one player has cards left in his hand, he may keep up
to two of them, but must discard the rest."

It seems like it should have been written;

"A round ends, when after the "Discard Cards from Hand" step of a battle's resolution, only one player (or no players) has any MERCENARY cards remaining in their hands.
At this point, ALL players with any cards remaining in their hands must discard their cards (each player retaining up to 2 if they so wish), then everybody draws their hand back up to 10 cards (+....depending on how many territories they control).


What about the NON-MERCENARY battle cards...ie the "HEROINE" and the "COURTESAN"? They contribute points to battles...especially the "HEROINE".
I take it they don't come into consideration when triggering step "4" or the "End of a Round" phases?

ie; 3 player game. End of a battle.

Player 1 has a COURTESAN and a scarecrow left in hand.
Player 2 has a HEROINE with some other "non mercenary" cards such as a Scarecrow and Drummer in hand.
Player 3 has an empty hand.
Nobody has any "MERCENARY" cards.

I take it the "End of a Round" phase triggers anyway?


Lastly... when the "End of a Round" phase is declared, do those players who still have cards in their hand have to show them to prove they in fact do NOT have any "MERCENARY" cards?




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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Lowden025 wrote:
a) There is no mention of the discarding player re-drawing their hand at that time.
I take it if you discard your hand, you do NOT at that point in time get to re-draw back up to 10 (+...depending on how many territories you control).. but still have to wait till till the "End of Round" phase triggers and everybody redraws?

Correct. If you blow out early, you have no cards until everyone else gets to draw.

Lowden025 wrote:
b) Why would you choose to discard your hand? Nobody else knows that you don't have any Mercenary cards in your hand. You can still affect battles.

Suppose you and I are the only players left with cards in our hands. You're holding a key and two drums; I'm holding a one, a one, and a two. You may not know that I can win three provinces, but you know you can't win any.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Regarding the rule change, I think the "keep two" business introduced in the third edition is bad for the game, so more of it would be worse.
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Jeff M
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kuhrusty wrote:
Regarding the rule change, I think the "keep two" business introduced in the third edition is bad for the game, so more of it would be worse.


So you play that when the "End of a Round" triggers, EVERYBODY has to discard ALL of their cards?
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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No, the end of round triggers when only one person has cards left. In first/second edition, they discard everything, so (unlike third edition) there's no incentive to be the last one holding cards.
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My suggestion.... play the variant (every player draws 3 cards)
Way better game.
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Mavis
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kuhrusty wrote:
Regarding the rule change, I think the "keep two" business introduced in the third edition is bad for the game, so more of it would be worse.

In our experience it adds a (small) element of bluff but it is very rare that a player actually manages to hold onto any cards (I have not managed to in c.400 games) and the hoarder players provinces usually become the target of attacks. An inexpereinced player thinking that they can hold onto cards often ends up being a mistake that is punished, sometimes handing another player an easy win.
 
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