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Conflict of Heroes: Eastern Front – Solo Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Problem Figuring Out AI Orders rss

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Jeff Brown
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I am having trouble sorting out AI orders. Tonight I started the Solo Mission 1 and on my first turn I moved the Rifle team at L03 to K04. I drew a card for them and they were not spent so the condition of the board is just that.

The first order card I draw for the AI is card 26. There is no close combat or short range so I jump down to the first tactical order, and I am confused about what to do there. The order reads:

Quote:
Highest FP AI farthest from the lowest DV Unit closest to a AI. Fire (+1 CAPs)


Can someone describe the process you would go through to figure out which AI is eligible to fire? Then, pretend that AI is elminated from the map and describe the same process with that board? I think if anyone is willing to take time to step through those 2 scenarios, that will probably fill in a number of gaps in my understanding of how this is supposed to work.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 
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Jeff Brown
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Can I rule out all of the rifle teams straight away because they do not have the SMT team in their firing arc?

If yes, that leaves just the SdKfz 251. Since the SMG has 12 defense and the heavy woods bumps that up to 14. The 251 has 3 fire power and will use the +1 called for in the order so it will fire at the SMG team and will need a 10 or higher to deliver a hit.

Is that correct?
 
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Walker (Matt) Jones
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jeffscottbrown wrote:
Can I rule out all of the rifle teams straight away because they do not have the SMT team in their firing arc?


No, follow the instructions on the card.



jeffscottbrown wrote:
Highest FP AI farthest from the lowest DV Unit closest to a AI. Fire (+1 CAPs)


My understanding is that you read it in chunks.

Initial group: Highest FP AI
... all the AI that share the highest FP value ...

First Specifier: farthest from the lowest DV Unit
... all the AI from the initial group that are the furthest away from your weakest unit...

Second Specifier: closest to a AI.

Action: Fire (+1 CAPs)
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Danick Cloutier
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This order confuse me also due to the closest to a AI.

I think you must find the unit(s) closest to a AI then you take the unit(if they are more than one) which have the lowest DV
from these. This unit is the target.

Find the highest FP unit(s) who is the farthest from the previously found target. >Fire.

If that unit cannot fire, pick the next one who qualify.
If none one can, goes to next order.


Note: I may be wrong! Hopefully I am not.
 
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Danick Cloutier
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My method wont give the same target(following your game exemple) as the one from Matt Jones.
Who in fact is a very possible way of figuring out the order.

It think in this case what is troubling me is: the lowest DV Unit closest to a AI part since it as 2 conditions.

Maybe you just do it in writen order when there is more than one condition.




 
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Scott Smith
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Couldn't resist
I am so excited... my copy is on schedule to be delivered TODAY!
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Danick Cloutier
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resQscooter wrote:

Couldn't resist
I am so excited... my copy is on schedule to be delivered TODAY!



ahahah!
Too bad I edited my post(removed the farthest part) but very funny video.

Maybe this puppet can be the official CoH solo expension's teacher?
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James Palmer
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jeffscottbrown wrote:
I am having trouble sorting out AI orders. Tonight I started the Solo Mission 1 and on my first turn I moved the Rifle team at L03 to K04. I drew a card for them and they were not spent so the condition of the board is just that.

The first order card I draw for the AI is card 26. There is no close combat or short range so I jump down to the first tactical order, and I am confused about what to do there. The order reads:

Quote:
Highest FP AI farthest from the lowest DV Unit closest to a AI. Fire (+1 CAPs)


Can someone describe the process you would go through to figure out which AI is eligible to fire? Then, pretend that AI is elminated from the map and describe the same process with that board? I think if anyone is willing to take time to step through those 2 scenarios, that will probably fill in a number of gaps in my understanding of how this is supposed to work.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!


I'm at work and don't have the firefight in front of me, so I can just give you a general answer, but here's the thought process:

1) You first figure out what the potential targets are.

So you look at the units with the lowest defense value (include terrain modifiers) that could be fired upon by the AI.
If there is more than one with the same, lowest, defense value, you find the one(s) that is(are) closest to an AI.

2) Find potential AI. You will take all the AI that can fire at the unit(s) selected in step #1, and find the one(s) with the highest FP. If there are multiple with the highest FP, you find the one(s) that are farthest from any of the units in question.

At this stage, you probably just have one AI and one potential target unit, but if you have more, you'll go through the general steps in the rulebook, to figure out which ones to use.
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Kurt R
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FWIW, I have a video going up later today or tomorrow and you can watch me implement orders and other rules. I'm not 100% sure I got the movement rules correct but you get to see the game in action.
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Jeff Brown
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enzo622 wrote:
FWIW, I have a video going up later today or tomorrow and you can watch me implement orders and other rules.


Anxious to see that.
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Kurt R
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jeffscottbrown wrote:
enzo622 wrote:
FWIW, I have a video going up later today or tomorrow and you can watch me implement orders and other rules.


Anxious to see that.

Me too! Video wouldn't load to YouTube so I'm resaving the file then reloading it. This stuff takes hours and hours. I wouldn't expect till Tuesday morning some time.
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Jeff Brown
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Here is my best attempt at this point to sort it out. Feedback welcome.

From the beginning:

AI + Units is 8 (not <= 6) so no advance of the time counter.

No close combat and no short range, so skip the priority orders. First tactical order:

Quote:

Highest FP AI farthest from the lowest DV Unit closest to AI
Fire (+1 CAPS)


I start by identifying lowest DV Unit closest to AI. I start that by identifying Unit closest to AI. The SMG at K07 and the Rifle team at E07 are each 2 away so I select the lowest DV between them. They are both 12 + 2 for the deep woods, so a tie there. Per rule #4 under 5.2 I will select the unit with the highest firepower which is the SMG. With that, I have selected the SMG as the lowest DV Unit closest to AI.

Next I need to identify the Highest FP AI that is farthest from the SMG. The rifle teams at G08 are the farthest from SMG. Per the flowchart on Executing an AI Order it says that if more than 1 AI is eligible to execute the order and the order specifies "farthest", choose the AI which is farthest from its closest target. The rifle team at G08 is farther from its closest target than the rifle team at G07, so G08 it is.

I have whittled it down to the rifle team at G08 firing at the SMG at K07. The SMG is not in the arc of fire of the Rifle team, so the order will not be executed.

Next tactical order:

Quote:

Hit AI closest to a Unit.
Rally


There are no Hit AI, so the order will not be executed.

The next tactical order:

Quote:

AI closest to a Spent Unit in 0 DM hex or Mission Objective
Move towards


There are no Spent Units so I will identify the AI closest to the Mission Objective. There are no Mission Objectives, so the order will not be executed.

Execute Mission Orders is the last option on the card. Mission Orders:

Quote:

AI in open closest to a Unit
Move towards cover

All of the AI are in open. The SdKfz at I08 and the Rifle team at G07 are each 2 away from their closest unit. Per the flowchart on Executing an AI Order it says that if more than 1 AI is elegible to execute the order and the order specifies "closest", first select the unhit unit. They are both unhit. The next option is the one with the lowest movement cost. They each have a movement cost of 1 so there is a tie there. Next on the flowchart it says randomly choose one, so I do, and that one moves twoards cover.

Did I make mistakes along the way there?
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Jeff Brown
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jeffscottbrown wrote:


I have whittled it down to the rifle team at G08 firing at the SMG at K07. The SMG is not in the arc of fire of the Rifle team, so the order will not be executed.


As soon as I re-read that, I realized a mistake there. The SMG doesn't need to be the target of the fire. It was just used to help identify the shooter. The shooter would then go through the process of selecting a target, but there are no targets in the firing arc of G08 so the order still can't be executed. At least I think that is right.

 
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Danick Cloutier
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jeffscottbrown wrote:
Here is my best attempt at this point to sort it out. Feedback welcome.

From the beginning:

AI + Units is 8 (not <= 6) so no advance of the time counter.

No close combat and no short range, so skip the priority orders. First tactical order:

Quote:

Highest FP AI farthest from the lowest DV Unit closest to AI
Fire (+1 CAPS)


I start by identifying lowest DV Unit closest to AI. I start that by identifying Unit closest to AI. The SMG at K07 and the Rifle team at E07 are each 2 away so I select the lowest DV between them. They are both 12 + 2 for the deep woods, so a tie there. Per rule #4 under 5.2 I will select the unit with the highest firepower which is the SMG. With that, I have selected the SMG as the lowest DV Unit closest to AI.

Next I need to identify the Highest FP AI that is farthest from the SMG. The rifle teams at G08 are the farthest from SMG. Per the flowchart on Executing an AI Order it says that if more than 1 AI is eligible to execute the order and the order specifies "farthest", choose the AI which is farthest from its closest target. The rifle team at G08 is farther from its closest target than the rifle team at G07, so G08 it is.

I have whittled it down to the rifle team at G08 firing at the SMG at K07. The SMG is not in the arc of fire of the Rifle team, so the order will not be executed.

Next tactical order:

Quote:

Hit AI closest to a Unit.
Rally


There are no Hit AI, so the order will not be executed.

The next tactical order:

Quote:

AI closest to a Spent Unit in 0 DM hex or Mission Objective
Move towards


There are no Spent Units so I will identify the AI closest to the Mission Objective. There are no Mission Objectives, so the order will not be executed.

Execute Mission Orders is the last option on the card. Mission Orders:

Quote:

AI in open closest to a Unit
Move towards cover

All of the AI are in open. The SdKfz at I08 and the Rifle team at G07 are each 2 away from their closest unit. Per the flowchart on Executing an AI Order it says that if more than 1 AI is elegible to execute the order and the order specifies "closest", first select the unhit unit. They are both unhit. The next option is the one with the lowest movement cost. They each have a movement cost of 1 so there is a tie there. Next on the flowchart it says randomly choose one, so I do, and that one moves twoards cover.

Did I make mistakes along the way there?



If we follow James Palmer resolution guide(above) the lowest DV unit(and only one) is Rifle in k04(DV12) so there is no need to look for the closest one to AI.

The Half track as 3FP(highest) and can fire on the target.
So it will fire with +1 cap.

Thats what I think.
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Jeff Brown
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Felkor wrote:
So you look at the units with the lowest defense value (include terrain modifiers) that could be fired upon by the AI.


The "that could be fired upon by AI" part surprises me. This unit isn't necessarily going to be the target of fire. I think it is only being used to identify which AI will act. Is it important that this unit could be fired upon?
 
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James Palmer
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Yes, because the order is to fire. If the order was to move, then it wouldn't be important.

If you don't take that into consideration, then a unit that is out of the way and irrelevant to the current combat situation could cause the AI to skip the order because no one could fire at it.
 
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Jeff Brown
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Felkor wrote:
Yes, because the order is to fire. If the order was to move, then it wouldn't be important.

If you don't take that into consideration, then a unit that is out of the way and irrelevant to the current combat situation could cause the AI to skip the order because no one could fire at it.


I see. I thought the unit description in the order was only used to help decide which AI would fire, then that AI would always fire at its closest eligible target.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
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James Palmer
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jeffscottbrown wrote:
Felkor wrote:
Yes, because the order is to fire. If the order was to move, then it wouldn't be important.

If you don't take that into consideration, then a unit that is out of the way and irrelevant to the current combat situation could cause the AI to skip the order because no one could fire at it.


I see. I thought the unit description in the order was only used to help decide which AI would fire, then that AI would always fire at its closest eligible target.

Thanks for the clarification.


No problem. The order is also there to determine which units (or sometimes control hexes) are eligible targets.
 
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Jeff Brown
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Felkor wrote:

No problem. The order is also there to determine which units (or sometimes control hexes) are eligible targets.


I think part of my confusion came from the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4CZEUP-aYI.

At 9:03 he starts working the first tactical order on card 25:

Quote:

Unhit AI closest to a Fresh Unit that just Acted
Fire


He sorts out which AI is going to fire and then at 10:28 he asserts that the unit described in the card that was used to figure out which AI would act is not the unit that will be fired upon. Is the conclusion he describes there incorrect?

Thanks again for your feedback.
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Danick Cloutier
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jeffscottbrown wrote:
Felkor wrote:

No problem. The order is also there to determine which units (or sometimes control hexes) are eligible targets.


I think part of my confusion came from the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4CZEUP-aYI.

At 9:03 he starts working the first tactical order on card 25:

Quote:

Unhit AI closest to a Fresh Unit that just Acted
Fire


He sorts out which AI is going to fire and then at 10:28 he asserts that the unit described in the card that was used to figure out which AI would act is not the unit that will be fired upon. Is the conclusion he describes there incorrect?

Thanks again for your feedback.


The player has made a mistake about implementing AI order in this video. It as been discussed somewhere else.

The AI and the target unit are both determined by the order card.
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Kurt R
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enzo622 wrote:
jeffscottbrown wrote:
enzo622 wrote:
FWIW, I have a video going up later today or tomorrow and you can watch me implement orders and other rules.


Anxious to see that.

Me too! Video wouldn't load to YouTube so I'm resaving the file then reloading it. This stuff takes hours and hours. I wouldn't expect till Tuesday morning some time.

Finally have something. I'll have another one coming as well b/c due to some technical glitches, I reshot the play but then figured the glitch out. So I used the same intro on both videos and have two playthroughs now for people to watch. I wasn't 100% confident on interpreting the movement orders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq2wTbjJ9R0

PS Please geekmod it for approval
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Danick Cloutier
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When resolving a Fire order and the 1st potential AI cannot do the order, you go the the next potential AI who can do the order and so on.

Must we do the same for movement orders(or we directly go to the next order)?

I dont remember to have read something about this in the rules.

 
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Jeff Brown
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enzo622 wrote:


What happened to the Play 2-1 and Play 2-2 videos? I watched them last night but was busy with other things and didn't really watch closely. I went back to them tonight, and they are gone.


JSB
 
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Kurt R
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jeffscottbrown wrote:
enzo622 wrote:


What happened to the Play 2-1 and Play 2-2 videos? I watched them last night but was busy with other things and didn't really watch closely. I went back to them tonight, and they are gone.


JSB

Too many mistakes to feel useful, I thought. I'm making a new one tomorrow anyway.
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James Palmer
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maedhros wrote:
When resolving a Fire order and the 1st potential AI cannot do the order, you go the the next potential AI who can do the order and so on.

Must we do the same for movement orders(or we directly go to the next order)?

I dont remember to have read something about this in the rules.



Yes, if one eligible unit can't do the move (for instance, because its stunned), if there's another AI that would fit the criteria in the order, then it could do the move.
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