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Subject: shared rounds vs alternating turns rss

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bob lawblaw
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So I've been thinking about this since I first watched the gameplay videos on the kickstarter last year - why doesn't this game utilize a shared round (with alternating actions) system instead of alternating turns?

e.g.:
-one player has initiative. that player takes the first action in each phase. first player fires cannon, then second player fires cannon. first player activates deckhands/bosuns, then second player activates deckhands/bosuns. then alternate hero actions back and forth. during the hero activation phase. At the end of the round, pass initiative to the opposing player.

(Simplified description, but I assume people on these forums get the gist of it).

It just seems to me that quick alternating actions would better capture the "real time" feel of Dota and other MOBAs rather than the much more discrete system of alternating whole turns. Additionally, this would almost entirely solve any kind of argument of whether or not the first player is at a material advantage in the game.

As this is something I foresee only playing with my GF and other friends, I plan to implement something like this to better capture the spirit of Dota in board game form. I'm just curious for other people's thoughts on this, or if I'm missing something silly that won't work elegantly for a shared round system.
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William Aull
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bob654 wrote:
So I've been thinking about this since I first watched the gameplay videos on the kickstarter last year - why doesn't this game utilize a shared round (with alternating actions) system instead of alternating turns?

e.g.:
-one player has initiative. that player takes the first action in each phase. first player fires cannon, then second player fires cannon. first player activates deckhands/bosuns, then second player activates deckhands/bosuns. then alternate hero actions back and forth. during the hero activation phase. At the end of the round, pass initiative to the opposing player.

(Simplified description, but I assume people on these forums get the gist of it).

It just seems to me that quick alternating actions would better capture the "real time" feel of Dota and other MOBAs rather than the much more discrete system of alternating whole turns. Additionally, this would almost entirely solve any kind of argument of whether or not the first player is at a material advantage in the game.

As this is something I foresee only playing with my GF and other friends, I plan to implement something like this to better capture the spirit of Dota in board game form. I'm just curious for other people's thoughts on this, or if I'm missing something silly that won't work elegantly for a shared round system.


I hear DOTA and other mobas brought up a lot, but people are taking it wayyyyyyyy too seriously in the comparison.

It uses a moba-like system, but it isn't straight-up like a moba. Most of the people I hear hating on the game or disliking it are crazy into LoL or another PC moba, and are comparing it like video games vs. video game movies.

Rum & Bones has the spirit of a moba, with creeps and some interesting Hero interactions, but quit trying to clone it into HotS or DOTA.
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Luke Scharf
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I like the idea of a shared round. I am interested in how it goes. Please give us an update after trying it.
 
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Mark Bigney
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I feel that this would actually cause the game to draw on interminably. The game works because people can manipulate the tempo to make decisive strikes on objectives--if every gain from one of your heroes could be checked by an opposing hero immediately thereafter, the game would drag.

In fact, that is one of the most MOBA-like things about the game--knowing when, and how, to push a lane.
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bob lawblaw
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That was one thing that I had considered - effect on game length. Looks like my game will be arriving finally on Friday for me to try some of this out. I guess my expectation is for games to be around 2 hours on average since a good game of Dota is usually close to an hour. It sounds like based on some of the initial conversation here, others are looking for a quicker to play game, which is totally understandable too, and I would agree that my assumption is that this variant would probably extent game length - if for no other reason than because it would create more complex decision points knowing that the opponent gets to act between each of your actions.
 
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Mark Bigney
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More decision points maybe, but more depth likely not. The game rewards generating combos with your heroes; knowing who to activate when and how to follow up properly. I suspect that not being able to activate your heroes sequentially would hurt that.

But yeah, try playing it first.
 
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Ulf Beorstruk
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Interested as well in how this turns out in actual play. It's an interesting idea, but I could see it slowing things down.

/sub
 
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Michael Shinall
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I actually did create a variant using alternating activations, but in the end it created a lot of issues, weird interactions... it was basically a different game by the time I was done, and I did not like the direction it went.

In the end it was a design choice, as with most games I do, I vastly prefer alternating activations (cit: Wrath of Kings, Dark Age), but again, here the turn-by-turn method worked better without reinventing the wheel.

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Gringe Commander
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changes the game in a few places.
- both deckhands/bosuns would move forward and provide better cover for heroes. Deckgun/hands clearing the crew away, leaving the hero vulnerable to acting players heroes happens less.
- hero activation would result in 'double-actions', at the end of my turn my opponent activates his last, and because next turn is his, he gets to start with a hero again.
- Kraken and dragon would only activate once per double-round, instead of after each player is done. Makes it harder for one player to easy kill of the kraken (usually the turn after it emerged), since he must now watch out for the opponents hero action. I would modify the reward of killing the kraken from +1 attack to killing side. Something like for each damage your side inflicted you gain a +1 attack-die token and 2 extratoken for the killing blow, usable once and only one per attack. That way you do not have a permanent bonus that is way to powerfull, just for killing that stupid squid.
 
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