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Subject: What happens when the cosmic deck runs out of cards? rss

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Ben Mortimer
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My group has just begun playing this game. We play with 5 players. I only have the base game at this stage (I am certainly looking at the expansions!)

In all the games we have played we have run out of cards in the cosmic deck. Do I shuffle all the discarded cards? Does this include used artifacts?

Is this a common occurrence for everyone else? Or is it just because my group are noobs? We are often losing 4 cards from our hands due to compensation when attacking a negotiation card. I am finding that players are constantly having to draw 8 new cards.

The rule book explains on p 9 and 13 that if the player has zero encounter cards they must discard/play all possible other cards and then draw 8 new ones.

I am finding that players can use their high cards frequently, and that the 40 is coming out a few times in the game due to the deck being re-shuffled.

Am I playing by the rules correctly? Or are these circumstances occurring due to noob/poor decision making?
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David Montgomery
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You shuffle all discarded cards to make a new deck. All Artifacts are discarded after play, so they would be included in the shuffle.

Are playing that you only draw a new hand at Start turn as the offense and Start of Planning as the defense? Allies and non-main players don't get a new hand until necessary.

If you're drawing a lot of extra cards, it's possible that defenders are inviting too many allies. I know people want to protect their home planets, but sometimes you have to cut your losses, take the hit, and save the high card for offense.

Do you guys negotiate much? You can plan that out a bit ahead of time, though nothing is certain. It does help speed things along.
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Ben Mortimer
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Thanks for your help
It looks like we have been collecting cards at the correct time.

We haven't really been utilizing the negotiations yet.

It does look like we are defending each other a lot more then other play throughs I have seen on youtube.

Maybe we aren't winning fast enough as well haha

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David Montgomery
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How many times are you going through the destiny deck?
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Hugo L
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mathguy6189 wrote:
You shuffle all discarded cards to make a new deck. All Artifacts are discarded after play, so they would be included in the shuffle.


This is correct, but I was unable to find the rule in the rulebook. Very strange... If someone has a pointer, I'm curious meeple

mortimizer24 wrote:
Am I playing by the rules correctly? Or are these circumstances occurring due to noob/poor decision making?


Not necessarily. Every game of cosmic is so much different from the other that it's hard to tell. But from my experience, shuffling the discard to make a new encounter deck is quite common (happen once in every two games I would say). Beginner games tend to be more extreme, one way or another, so I'm not surprised you may have to shuffle it twice or so.

You just have to be sure that the offense player can draw a new hand only at the start of his turn and (and not at the start of each encounter for instance). For more details, rulebook page 13.

And just to let you know that the game engine even has a rule if there is no card to draw AND the discard pile is empty (that is, every cards are in players hands or the like). This is called a "Cosmic Quake". So shuffling the discard is clearly withing the bound of the game and is nowhere near unusual.
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David Montgomery
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That second quote isn't mine, it's the original poster's. Could you please alter that?
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Hugo L
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mathguy6189 wrote:
That second quote isn't mine, it's the original poster's. Could you please alter that?


Sorry, bad copy/paste. Fixed.
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Just a Bill
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mortimizer24 wrote:
We are often losing 4 cards from our hands due to compensation when attacking a negotiation card. I am finding that players are constantly having to draw 8 new cards.

This should not have much effect on the rate of reshuffling. When you lose 4 cards and your hand gets smaller, this speeds up when you need to draw from the deck ... but the other guy's hand just got larger, which slows down when he will need to draw from the deck. Overall it should be a zero-sum change.

You aren't discarding the cards taken for compensation, are you?
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Pasi Ojala
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Bill Martinson wrote:
You aren't discarding the cards taken for compensation, are you?

Also, there is no hand limit. The 8 cards are what you start with (or if you have no encounter cards left at the start of your turn or when needed as defense during the planning phase, 8 is what you draw after you have discarded your hand.)

The base game cosmic deck is not that big though.
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Ben Mortimer
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Thank you everyone for the help.

It looks like from everyone's posts above that I have been playing the game correctly, and picking up/discarding cards at the right time.

I think the large flow of cards are due to two things.
1) My group were very eager to defend everyone. We had the situation where in the first few encounters 1 person would attack and 3 other players would help defend. So 4 offense ships would be up against 12 defending alliance and the 4 on the home planet, so the defensive alliance would be collecting 12 cards. Have this happen a few times early in the game and the deck diminishes quickly. (we will have to see if this mindset changes this upcoming weekend)

2) The base game hasn't got a huge amount of cards. We were playing without flares as well, so adding these may a little bulk to the deck.

It's great to have it confirmed that the rulebook doesn't explain what to do when the deck runs out.

 
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Wheels
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It's a huge oversight to not include the reshuffle of the cosmic deck in the rulebook - I asked the same question here!

Of course, if you've played other games before you can probably guess that that's what should happen, but I find it unbelievable that the rules could pass QA without someone noticing that!
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mortimizer24 wrote:
I think the large flow of cards are due to two things.
1) My group were very eager to defend everyone.

Doesn't anyone want to win the game? Or at least make progress towards winning? You need foreign colonies to win, and you get those by winning on the offensive side, not the defensive side.
 
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Jared M
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Wheels2050 wrote:
It's a huge oversight to not include the reshuffle of the cosmic deck in the rulebook - I asked the same question here!

Of course, if you've played other games before you can probably guess that that's what should happen, but I find it unbelievable that the rules could pass QA without someone noticing that!


I have been searching too for like 15 minutes and finally came here. Glad to see I'm not crazy. It's really not in there.
 
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Dapperghast Meowregard
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Wheels2050 wrote:
It's a huge oversight to not include the reshuffle of the cosmic deck in the rulebook - I asked the same question here!

Of course, if you've played other games before you can probably guess that that's what should happen, but I find it unbelievable that the rules could pass QA without someone noticing that!


They're not the only ones. According to Evolution's rulebook, the game essentially ends "When the deck needs to be shuffled," but doesn't actually ever tell you to shuffle the deck, so by RAW the game goes on forever.
 
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