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Star Realms» Forums » Rules

Subject: Primary ability and/or Scrap ability rss

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Jim Alexander
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As a relatively new player I am uncertain about this.

Can one use both a ship's/base's Primary ability and then its Scrap ability, or just one or the other?

Thank you.
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Flying Arrow
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You can use both.

However, when the red cards are used to scrap something in your hand, you do not get to use the card's ability.
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Jim Alexander
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Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't certain about that part -- although, I did previously understand your second point.
 
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John
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FlyingArrow is correct - so for example if you play an Explorer you gain 2 trade. You may then scrap it to gain 2 combat.

There are a few cards where you have to chose one of two abilities but these are clearly marked with the word "or" - see Trading Post for example.
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Jim Alexander
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Thank you, all. These forums are great for rule ambiguities.
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Benjo Man
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Thank you all for the clarification. I've been playing this both on the tabletop and digital, and I wondering why I could get the 2 trade for the explorer, and then also the 2 combat for scrapping it, but not when I scrap a scout after using something like a trade blob.
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Benjo221 wrote:
Thank you all for the clarification. I've been playing this both on the tabletop and digital, and I wondering why I could get the 2 trade for the explorer, and then also the 2 combat for scrapping it, but not when I scrap a scout after using something like a trade blob.


It comes down to scrap as a cost vs. scrap as an effect. When you scrap a ScoutExplorer, you are scrapping as a cost. You have to get rid of a valuable (in most cases) card in exchange for getting a good effect. Since scrap abilities are activated on a card that is in play, you get the benefit of the card's primary ability when you put it into play from your hand. When you are scrapping with the Trade BlobBot, you are getting the scrap as an effect and get to scrap any card in your hand or discard pile. When you scrap a scout, you are scrapping as a cost.

Edit: Errors caught by binaryeye
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Jason
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ThinkingThatsAll wrote:
It comes down to scrap as a cost vs. scrap as an effect. When you scrap a Scout, you are scrapping as a cost. You have to get rid of a valuable (in most cases) card in exchange for getting a good effect. Since scrap abilities are activated on a card that is in play, you get the benefit of the card's primary ability when you put it into play from your hand. When you are scrapping with the Trade Blob, you are getting the scrap as an effect and get to scrap any card in your hand or discard pile. When you scrap a scout, you are scrapping as a cost.

To avoid any further confusion, I believe you mean Explorer not Scout, and Trade Bot not Trade Blob, correct?

To me, it comes down to zones of play. Machine Cult cards allow you to scrap a card in hand or in the discard pile. Such cards aren't in play, so any attack, trade, or abilities they provide are irrelevant. Cards that can be scrapped for a benefit (e.g. Explorer, Ram, etc.) must be in play before this can happen. Thus, their non-scrap abilities have already triggered.
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binaryeye wrote:
ThinkingThatsAll wrote:
It comes down to scrap as a cost vs. scrap as an effect. When you scrap a Scout, you are scrapping as a cost. You have to get rid of a valuable (in most cases) card in exchange for getting a good effect. Since scrap abilities are activated on a card that is in play, you get the benefit of the card's primary ability when you put it into play from your hand. When you are scrapping with the Trade Blob, you are getting the scrap as an effect and get to scrap any card in your hand or discard pile. When you scrap a scout, you are scrapping as a cost.

To avoid any further confusion, I believe you mean Explorer not Scout, and Trade Bot not Trade Blob, correct?

To me, it comes down to zones of play. Machine Cult cards allow you to scrap a card in hand or in the discard pile. Such cards aren't in play, so any attack, trade, or abilities they provide are irrelevant. Cards that can be scrapped for a benefit (e.g. Explorer, Ram, etc.) must be in play before this can happen. Thus, their non-scrap abilities have already triggered.


Correct on all points.
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Brook Gentlestream
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JimABassPlayer wrote:
As a relatively new player I am uncertain about this.

Can one use both a ship's/base's Primary ability and then its Scrap ability, or just one or the other?

Thank you.


The Primary ability is mandatory, and must be used first, as soon as the card is played. Once the card has been played, at any time on your turn, you have the OPTION of also using any Ally abilities or Scrap abilities on the card. You may activate these optional abilities in any order you want.

If you simply scrap a card from your hand (because another card tells you to), you are not using any of the abilities (not even the scrap abilities) on the scrapped card.

You can only use the scrap ability on a card that is in play, when you scrap the card voluntarily (when you otherwise aren't required to).
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lordrahvin wrote:
JimABassPlayer wrote:
As a relatively new player I am uncertain about this.

Can one use both a ship's/base's Primary ability and then its Scrap ability, or just one or the other?

Thank you.


The Primary ability is mandatory, and must be used first, as soon as the card is played. Once the card has been played, at any time on your turn, you have the OPTION of also using any Ally abilities or Scrap abilities on the card. You may activate these optional abilities in any order you want.

If you simply scrap a card from your hand (because another card tells you to), you are not using any of the abilities (not even the scrap abilities) on the scrapped card.

You can only use the scrap ability on a card that is in play, when you scrap the card voluntarily (when you otherwise aren't required to).


The primary ability of a ship is mandatory, but not so for a base. I don't think that there is a rule stopping you from using the ally or scrap ability of a base before the primary ability (though you cannot use the ally or primary after the scrap).
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Gillum the Stoor
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lordrahvin wrote:
The Primary ability is mandatory, and must be used first, as soon as the card is played. Once the card has been played, at any time on your turn, you have the OPTION of also using any Ally abilities or Scrap abilities on the card. You may activate these optional abilities in any order you want.

Correct.

And let's not forget that the primary ability of an Explorer is to put 2 Trade points in your trade pool - not to actually buy anything.

Thus, as soon as you plunk down an Explorer, your trade pool goes up by 2.

You can then immediately scrap it - and use the Trade points much later in your turn.

Similarly, when you scrap it, your combat pool goes up by 2. You can wait till later to use that combat against an opponent.
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Niklas Adebahr
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Im new to SR and have a follow up question regarding the matter of using all/some abilites on a card during main phase.

I found the example with the Explorer to be very helpful, but just to clarify even further Id like to ask about using the Space Station (4 def. outpost, primary: 2 combat, ally: +2 combat, scrap: +4 trade).

So lets say I have Space station in play which immediately puts 2 combat in my pool at the start of my turn. I then play another ally which (alternatively) buffs the space station for +2 combat. The space station has now added 4 combat to my pool. If I also choose to scrap it for +4 trade, does it then stay in play during my main phase, upholding its 4 combat contribution to my pool, and then gets scrapped at the end of my turn?

It would seem this is true given the previous example. Just wanted to make sure.
 
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John
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adebahr84 wrote:
If I also choose to scrap it for +4 trade, does it then stay in play during my main phase, upholding its 4 combat contribution to my pool, and then gets scrapped at the end of my turn?

It has already added it's 4 combat to your pool, but it gets scrapped immediately. You keep the 4 combat in your pool after it is scrapped. With the Space station I don't think it would matter if you did it in the wrong order, but there may be some cards where it does matter e.g. the Trade Federation Outpost Port of Call which has "Scrap: Draw a card. You may destroy target base" - if you scrap it and draw a Trade Federation card then Port of Call is no longer in play and can't trigger the new Trade Federation card's ally ability.
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John
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Another example would be Imperial Frigate - say you had drawn that a viper and 3 scouts so you had 4 Combat from Imperial Frigate + 1 from your viper but your opponent had a 6 defence outpost. If you scrap Imperial Frigate to draw a card and get another viper then you have 6 combat and can destroy the outpost.

adebahr84 wrote:
So lets say I have Space station in play which immediately puts 2 combat in my pool at the start of my turn.

That's not actually totally correct you don't need to trigger primary abilities of bases - if the ability gives combat then there's no harm in thinking of it like that, as long as you remember that you don't need to use the ability of a card like Machine Base "Draw a card, then scrap a card from your hand"
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Niklas Adebahr
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zabdiel wrote:
Another example would be Imperial Frigate - say you had drawn that a viper and 3 scouts so you had 4 Combat from Imperial Frigate + 1 from your viper but your opponent had a 6 defence outpost. If you scrap Imperial Frigate to draw a card and get another viper then you have 6 combat and can destroy the outpost.


That makes a lot of sense.

I guess my biggest issue with the immediate effect on scrapping is that it makes it a bit harder to keep count on current pools, having to remember which respective points was scrapped and if an ally ability is then legal for another card, assuming the scrapped card was the ally trigger. But that might just be me, new to the game and all..

Thank you sir.
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Niklas Adebahr
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zabdiel wrote:
That's not actually totally correct you don't need to trigger primary abilities of bases - if the ability gives combat then there's no harm in thinking of it like that, as long as you remember that you don't need to use the ability of a card like Machine Base "Draw a card, then scrap a card from your hand"


Oh yea of course, I just thought of it as combat being automatically added since there seems to be no reason not to.
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adebahr84 wrote:
zabdiel wrote:
Another example would be Imperial Frigate - say you had drawn that a viper and 3 scouts so you had 4 Combat from Imperial Frigate + 1 from your viper but your opponent had a 6 defence outpost. If you scrap Imperial Frigate to draw a card and get another viper then you have 6 combat and can destroy the outpost.


That makes a lot of sense.

I guess my biggest issue with the immediate effect on scrapping is that it makes it a bit harder to keep count on current pools, having to remember which respective points was scrapped and if an ally ability is then legal for another card, assuming the scrapped card was the ally trigger. But that might just be me, new to the game and all..

Thank you sir.

When I scrap a card like Imperial Frigate during my turn I turn the card 90' sideways, like a base, to remind me I've got its combat to use but don't get to keep the card. You still have to track yourself which cards were allied on play but generally this only applies to a few, e.g. an imperial fighter drawn after a scrap-to-draw imperial frigate as only yellow.
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