Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Leaving Earth» Forums » Rules

Subject: Current stage rockets' mass included in calculation? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Evan Stegman
United States
Minneapolis
MN
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't see where it says that anywhere in the rulebook but when I look at these rockets, I see:

Juno = Thrust 4
Saturn = Thrust 200


But when I look at the Maximum Payload Chart for difficulty 1, I see:

Juno max mass 3
Saturn max mass 180


I can't find any place in the rules where it says it but that makes it seem that in the calculation for thrust:

Thrust = Mass x Difficulty

Expanded it would be:

Thrust = (Payload Mass + Current Stage Rocket(s) Mass) x Difficulty

Is this correct?

I ask because I would rather just do the calulation myself rather than have to constantly be looking at a chart.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig C
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Seems like it'd save time to include the rocket's mass in its Thrust value. That way you'd only have to figure the mass of its payload and the difficulty of where it's going.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh Zscheile
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From my understanding of the system this is correct. Then again, I am just a guy reading the stuff here

@Craig C: The Rocket's mass is included in its thrust value, as far as I understand it. A Juno has a thrust of four, that means it can do a difficulty 2 maneuver with itself and 1 mass payload (capsule).

I think you mean the maximum payload chart? Well, it is just what it says then. A chart for the maximum mass of payload (as in: other stuff than itself) this rocket can bring anywhere.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Evan Stegman
United States
Minneapolis
MN
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess the chart does make it easier.

If trying to calculate it yourself, it gets a bit tricky:



Having to add the rocket's mass x the difficulty and see if the thrust it adds compensates for that + your thrust gap is trickier than just looking at the payload and the chart.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig C
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"It was my understanding that there would be no math."
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Fatula
United States
Blue Tent
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
EvanMinn wrote:
I don't see where it says that anywhere in the rulebook but when I look at these rockets, I see:

Juno = Thrust 4
Saturn = Thrust 200


But when I look at the Maximum Payload Chart for difficulty 1, I see:

Juno max mass 3
Saturn max mass 180


I can't find any place in the rules where it says it but that makes it seem that in the calculation for thrust:

Thrust = Mass x Difficulty

Expanded it would be:

Thrust = (Payload Mass + Current Stage Rocket(s) Mass) x Difficulty

Is this correct?

I ask because I would rather just do the calulation myself rather than have to constantly be looking at a chart.


Your understanding is correct: maneuvering uses the mass of the spacecraft before expending any rockets, not after.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Fatula
United States
Blue Tent
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
bird94us wrote:
Seems like it'd save time to include the rocket's mass in its Thrust value. That way you'd only have to figure the mass of its payload and the difficulty of where it's going.


It turns out you can't, unless you give up the whole idea of maneuver difficulty. The higher the difficulty, the more of a rocket's thrust is taken up just moving the rocket itself, and not moving any payload.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Fatula
United States
Blue Tent
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
EvanMinn wrote:
I guess the chart does make it easier.

If trying to calculate it yourself, it gets a bit tricky:



Having to add the rocket's mass x the difficulty and see if the thrust it adds compensates for that + your thrust gap is trickier than just looking at the payload and the chart.


This is exactly what we discovered during playtesting. Early on, you pretty much needed something like Excel to play the game at a reasonable speed. Once we added the payload chart, you could do your planning with just pencil and paper.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig C
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
buffalohat wrote:
bird94us wrote:
Seems like it'd save time to include the rocket's mass in its Thrust value. That way you'd only have to figure the mass of its payload and the difficulty of where it's going.


It turns out you can't, unless you give up the whole idea of maneuver difficulty. The higher the difficulty, the more of a rocket's thrust is taken up just moving the rocket itself, and not moving any payload.


Aha. I understand the part about difficulty, but I figured that, since the OP said he couldn't find values for rocket mass, you'd arrived at an overall Thrust value by taking the rocket's pure power and dividing it by the rocket's mass.

I was speculating that the rocket's Thrust was actually its TWR, but that doesn't sound like it's the case.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Fatula
United States
Blue Tent
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
bird94us wrote:
I was speculating that the rocket's Thrust was actually its TWR, but that doesn't sound like it's the case.

In physics terms, it's actually impulse rather than thrust, since it's integrated over time. (Not that you have to know that to play the game, of course.)
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.