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Subject: Across the Ettenmoors Spoilers are up on Cardgamedb rss

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banana
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Most of the cards were already spoiled a while ago, and the rest of them on FFG forum during the week end but you can now see them clear on Cardgamedb:

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/lotr/lord-of-the-rings-c...

My first reactions (which may prove wrong in the end because archetypes some of those cards are supporting are still in development) :

- Dori: coaster

- Ranger Supplies: Leadership version of Ancient Mathom, could be cool for multiplayer to send some resources to a buddy, though the net gain is only 2 resources and you need to explore the location first...
- Dunedain Message: there's still be a Side-quest deck to be made and be reliable, so I don't see this one getting much use for now

- Longbeard Sentry: this is the way to soften my disppointment towards Dori. Amazing ally. Good stats, ok cost, great ability.
- Delay the Enemy: could be supra-powerful against the right quest

- Steed of Imladris: finally some kind of generic Asfaloth-like effect. The trigger is easily met, and getting progress tokens out of uniques that would be stuck in your hand is perfect.
- Fair and Perilous: some kind of boost like Halfling Determination for Hobbits or Khazad!Khazad! for Dwarves, I like it. Good card.

- Wellinghall Presever: is this real?
- None return: amazing in a Rossiel deck, but narrow applications in the metagame

- Hope Rekindled: same thing. Not versatile and the Valour deck is not a thing yet.

Overall, a very heterogeneous pack in my opinion. Some truly amazing cards, and most remains to be seen in action.
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Daniel B-G
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I don't think that Dori is a complete writeoff. You can give Dori some ring mail and a dwarven axe, thus making him a competent attacker and defender independently, and if you go up against a troll (like most of the enemies in the scenario I should remind you) he can tag team to defend. I agree he isn't amazing, but he's not a writeoff.
 
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Allan Clements
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He is awful. He has to exhaust to use his ability, which means without 3 core sets and spirit (unexpected courage) he will have to do nothing most turns "in case" he is needed to defend.

The game needs many more permanent "ready" effects.

His stats are awful, he would be better if he had 0/0/2/5 and cost 7 threat. He will never quest, and almost never attack, and most probably never defend either.

If you are playing multiplayer, perhaps someone can use Beregond and him and just defend against big things.

Arwen the ally is better than he is.

The tactics side quest is nice, but why on earth are these 1 per deck? It makes them completely pointless.

The tactics ally is pretty bad, we already have 2 tactics allies with 4 defense which are better than this and cost less. He is at least a dwarf for dwarf decks.

Where are the valour cards? Tactics should get nothing but valour cards this cycle if you ask me, would make tactics a lot more viable.

Not sure I have been this sad about how bad the player cards have been in a pack before.
 
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Allan Clements
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Also spirit now has a better attack card and a better location card than tactics and lore respectively.

Fair and Perilous can even be re-used more easily with several ways to get it back.

Can we get a tactics card which adds attack to willpower? (not that silly nonsense that requires all tactics heroes and cant be used in any of the sagas because of the extra hero)

Can we get a card to "attack" a location?

If spirit is going to bleed so badly into the other spheres, then lets do it equally!
 
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Dirk Meijer
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Added to Rivendell Councilroom

Your valuations seem spot on,
I'm not very excited about these.

The quest looks pretty cool though, I really like the idea of safe locations.
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Sam Cook
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Longbeard Sentry could be pretty amazing. You can use his ability 7 times every round to mill your deck for copies of Hidden Cache. You probably need to pair him with a spirit hero so you can play Will of the West to reshuffle your library. Also he pairs well with spirit for Dwarven Tomb since most of your deck will be in your discard pile you can get whatever spirit card you want for cheap.
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Rob L
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Dori is very disappointing. Tactics has better defenders and better ways to add defense already, no need to waste a hero spot on this. Maybe later on it could change, but right now it just seems better to bring Beregond if you really need a great Hero defender.

Ranger supplies looks great, especially in Saga where you could turn that one resource into 4.

Dunedain Message looks pretty good and will probably only get better as more side quests come out.

Longbeard Sentry is also good. I'd use him in any dwarf deck.

Delay the Enemy... Okay, I get that it has Battle, but why is it 8 progress to complete when the other sphere specific ones are only 4? Given how many characters you'd probably have to use to finish it, you could just as easily clear the enemies directly.

Steed of Imladris is very good.

Fair and Perilous - Do we really need even more reasons to use Spirfindel? I like the card, but yeah, it's obvious who this one's intended for.

Wellinghall Preserver is ridiculous. Three willpower on an ally for lore is just crazy. Add in the rest and this guy is probably the best in the pack. I want!

None Return is solid. Even without Rossiel, I could see using it to get rid of particularly annoying enemies.

Hope Rekindled is one I don't see myself using all that much, but I guess as they add more Valour it'll get better.

All in all, I agree on most of your points. Compared to some of the other packs, this one isn't that exciting. Dori especially is a disappointment. On the other hand, even if I didn't get all the packs anyway, I'd be buying this one just for the Ent...
 
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Robin Munn

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banania wrote:
Dunedain Message: there's still be a Side-quest deck to be made and be reliable, so I don't see this one getting much use for now


It's perfect for decks that need one specific card to function. Add one copy of Gather Information into your deck, and then you can have up to seven cards that can end up putting your vital card into your hand.

Say you're playing an Elrond/Vilya deck. You could include three copies of Vilya, one Gather Information, and three Dúnedain Message. Seven cards out of a deck of 50 means about a 60% chance* of at least one of those being in your initial pre-mulligan hand of 6 cards, and an 85% chance of finding at least one of those if you use your mulligan to search.

So for any deck that has a Leadership hero and needs a specific card, Dúnedain Message can give you a very decent chance of getting that card by turn 2.

* Check my math: drawing cards from a deck, hoping for a specific card or cards in your opening hand, is an example of hypergeometric distribution. Here, the population size is 50, there are 7 successes in the population, the sample size is 6, and the minimal number of successes is 1. That gives 61.6%, and the chance of winning a 61.6% chance given two tries (one mulligan) is about 85.3%.
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mathew rynich
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Dori isn't worthless. He's not the best defender tactics has, but for one he's a dwarf. This fact opens him up to synergies for which superior defenders like Beregond do not have access. He counts toward the five dwarf threshold, can benefit from Dain, can use dwarf attachments (Dwarrowdelf Axe, Ringmail...) to easily boost attack, HP and defense. He can ready with Lure of Moria and everything else that makes dwarf heroes great.

His ability is very flexible. He could defend with sentinel or if it's a nasty attack (which might otherwise kill a hero) he can instead use his ability. I don't think it's something you are going to use every round. Also it's a good option to use to still help defend in multiplayer when Dori's HP falls too low to take another hit. It's there if you need it.

He has 5 hitpoints, which allows him to take some hefty hits and is particularly great if you include healing.

Finally you can play mono tactics dwarves (for thematic reasons or to unlock the mono sphere cards). He rounds out the tactics dwarves available. Now we have an attack dwarf (Gimli), quest dwarf (Thalin) and a defense dwarf (Dori).

That's just off the top of my head. Not all heroes in this game are created equally, but I think it's a bit unfair to label this guy a coaster.

Add: Actually now that I think about it we can finally create four player mono sphere all dwarf player decks. That sounds fun.
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Sam Cook
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I am actually pretty happy with Dori. Finally we get our 3rd Tactics Dwarf, and he even has sentinel (hello Raven-Winged Helm). Dwarf heroes are going to be strong no matter what their ability just because of the trait.

However I think Dori's ability could be really useful in those scenarios where you have to deal with a big boss type monster that attacks the 1st player every single round. These big attacks usually require sacking an ally to chump block, using an event card, or having a hero take some damage and potentially die - every single round. With Dori you have a repeatable effect that doesn't cost cards or resources and can up the first player hero's defense to some very safe values.
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Casey Lent
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Or someone could play Durin's Song for one resource. If there are Dwarves, there is almost assuredly Dain, or Thorin, or Balin. Hell, even Bombur can get Burning Brand and as long as there's no 7 attack enemy (which you would save Feint for anyways, let's be real) you're golden.
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Andrew Brown
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I think Dori in a vacuum is just ok, but not all quests are the same, and I think people are probably looking at him the wrong way. He is great for quests that have fewer more powerful enemies or in general if you have more defenders than enemies. He's like a free Stand Together (or whatever that card no one uses is called). He can help Beregond from turn one against the Hill Troll or Smug or any other quest with a turn one huge enemy you have to defend against.

I play a lot of three and four player, and there are many instances when there are more defenders than there are enemies. A lot of guys just sit around doing nothing. Dori's ability gives him something to do when he doesn't need to act on his own

Yes, his ability is situational, but it's really just a backup to his already solid stats. sentinel with 2def and 5hp are pretty good when he access to Ring Mail, Citadel Plate, and Boots From Erebor. And once he's used all of his hp to soak up damage, he can help someone else defend

He's obviously not good for every scenario, but I think he can't be judged overall as bad just for those scenarios where he's less useful
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Brendon Russell
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Yeah, I think some people have looked at Dori and evaluated him as though he can only be used as a defense boost for another hero, overlooking his flexibility. He can be used as a regular defender, to contribute to one uber-block, or if he's not required for either of those he has a reasonable attack as well. Yes his willpower is a wasted stat most of the time, but he's hardly the only hero in that boat.

I don't think he's the greatest hero, but I think he's far from useless.
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Ben Finkel
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He seems pretty cool in tandem with Beregond when you have to face off against some variation of Smaug.
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mathew rynich
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Also we are glossing over the fact that Dori is a pretty big thematic win. For a guy that spent most of The Hobbit watching over Bilbo it's fitting that he has sentinel and that his ability allows him to help other people defend themselves. I like that better than his ally version that takes damage for others.
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Yes, he's very thematic, this I can't deny.
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Steven
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Dori is ok in 3-4 multiplayer as a sort of shadow card contingency. His ability does look like it could synergise with other (possible future) cards.

Ranger supplies: amazing in tri-colour deck.

Longbeard Sentry: Milling your deck, then returning the most powerful cards with the prospector seems interesting. Milling your deck and using spirit to return cards from the discard pile is also useful. Mono-tactics could mill and use the tome to get some power-events quick and reliable. A defender with 3 HP is also less shadow-vulnerable than the Ramas. Great overall card.

Kamakaze wrote:
Can we get a tactics card which adds attack to willpower? (not that silly nonsense that requires all tactics heroes and cant be used in any of the sagas because of the extra hero)

Can we get a card to "attack" a location?

Why, it's in this very pack actually! Delay the Enemy has the battle keyword. Therefore you can use it to quest a location away with your attackpower. You could purposely limit how much you quest with in order to repeatedly "attack" locations. Gimli could singlehandedly take care of succesful questing AND traveling for you, while you slowly clear the staging area of enemies with your other characters.

Steed of Imladis: ANY alternative to Spirit Glorfindel is a welcome card in my book.

Hope Rekindled: Man, I REALLY want more valour cards. What's taking them so long? Especially now that I'm trying to build a Palantir deck, valour could be the final missing ingredient to actually make it powerful.

I'm looking foreward to building a Gimli-Booming Ent-Trained for war-Delay the enemy deck. Somewhere in the future.
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Sam Cook
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I find it pretty hard to compare Steed of Imladris to Asfaloth. Most of the time Steed of Imladris will function as a "hero receives +2 willpower when there is an active location" which is pretty good for 1 resource, but nowhere near as flexible as Asfaloth which lets your get rid of nasty locations in the staging area without even having to travel there, sometimes even before their threat contributes to questing. Though steed of Imladris will really shine when the quest has lots of locations with nasty "when active" effects.
 
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mathew rynich
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Anything that helps with location lock is a welcome addition. It's nice that Spirit is getting a cheap solution. Lorien Guide and Northern Tracker are great, but expensive and Asfaloth is amazing, but requires a Lore splash.

It's better than +2 willpower since it always will put those tokens on the active location even if you can't quest successfully that turn, which means it can help you dig your way out of a hole. At the cost of a card per use it's not something you can do all the time though. It certainly fits in a Noldor strategy or a deck with lots of draw.

I like it. Steed is an interesting deck building decision rather than being outright powerful like Asfaloth.
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Allan Clements
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Yeah, I like the side quest, but it is limit 1 per deck, so you require leadership to get a chance to use it once. So you can't really base a deck around it.

I think side quests would have been fine with the usual 3 per deck. They are relatively weak since you aren't actually working towards the quest when you use them, and if they release enough of them, it is not as if you won't be able to have a ton of side quests in your deck. So from a game balance point of view it makes no sense for them to be 1 per deck.

When they release a new card even if its unique I can put 3 in my deck and have a good chance of it affecting my game. The side quests just get removed from the deck after a few plays because you never see them.
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Greg Burkett
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S2076 wrote:
Dori is ok in 3-4 multiplayer as a sort of shadow card contingency.


The way I'm reading Dori, you have to choose to give the defense boost at the time another hero is declared as a defender. Thus, you couldn't wait until seeing what their shadow card is before exhausting Dori.
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Daniel B-G
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Dori reads "response" not "action", so I think you can use it in response to a shadow card being revealed.
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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DAAAN wrote:
Dori reads "response" not "action", so I think you can use it in response to a shadow card being revealed.


Response isn't a magical way to activate effects whenever you want - it lets you activate an effect at one specific time whether or not an action window is open. In Dori's case, you use him when a hero is declared as a defender - and that happens before revealing shadow cards.
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Anatole
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I see nothing in the rules to show that DAAAN is wrong.
 
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Daniel B-G
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Anatole69 wrote:
I see nothing in the rules to show that DAAAN is wrong.


I went and checked the card, I was wrong. The response triggers as the defender is declared.
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