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Subject: setup for 6 and 7 player game rss

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clarence
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Just wondering how would be the setup for 6 and 7 player game?

Would it be interesting?
 
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Loic Lamy
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Being the designer, I am not sure I am the best to reply to this question (my reply may not be very objective), but I did test many times the game with 6 or 7 players and I really think the game is interesting with this number of players.
 
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Charlie Theel
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With 6 and 7 players the game works but there is one weird meta element you may have to be aware of.

So a big thing with 6/7 is that the Godfather gets no mulligans (the little bottle whose name I can't remember), so he can't even get one guess wrong. This is very important.

With 6/7 though, a weird thing can happen where the first player to the left of the Godfather buries the FBI agent in the bag and takes the driver. Then the next two players each take a loyal Henchman. This leaves just diamonds for the rest of the players.

If your group gets stuck in this groupthink situation that this is always the best move the game will break down. This is, however, an issue with groupthink and can be avoided.

What will fix this situation is the first time that third player takes diamonds instead of that last loyal Henchman role. Once he does this and the Godfather picks incorrectly, causing that third player to win the game, your group's meta will change and adapt and this problem will go away.

So yes, I think it works well with 6/7 but you have to be careful about your group stumbling into a situation where they may think the game is broken and it requires a player to be clever to break that groupthink.
 
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clarence
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charlest wrote:
With 6 and 7 players the game works but there is one weird meta element you may have to be aware of.

So a big thing with 6/7 is that the Godfather gets no mulligans (the little bottle whose name I can't remember), so he can't even get one guess wrong. This is very important.

With 6/7 though, a weird thing can happen where the first player to the left of the Godfather buries the FBI agent in the bag and takes the driver. Then the next two players each take a loyal Henchman. This leaves just diamonds for the rest of the players.

If your group gets stuck in this groupthink situation that this is always the best move the game will break down. This is, however, an issue with groupthink and can be avoided.

What will fix this situation is the first time that third player takes diamonds instead of that last loyal Henchman role. Once he does this and the Godfather picks incorrectly, causing that third player to win the game, your group's meta will change and adapt and this problem will go away.

So yes, I think it works well with 6/7 but you have to be careful about your group stumbling into a situation where they may think the game is broken and it requires a player to be clever to break that groupthink.


What happen if the 1st player take driver and all other take henchman. Or noone took any diamond in game?
 
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Charlie Theel
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You have to take diamonds if the box gets to you and there's no roles (except for the last player can optionally take nothing).

I'm just saying with 6/7 players because there's only 1 FBI agent, there's a weird situation that can pop up where the first four players are incentivized to be on the same team and have tons of information.

This strategy can feel dominant with group think but as soon as someone breaks the strategy and wins you likely won't see it anymore.
 
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Benjamin Wack
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Frankly, with a game so centered on bluffing and guessing what the others are up to, I can't imagine any deadlock situation that would repeat over and over.

There will always be someone around the table who will see how to take advantage of it, and then there will be someone else who guesses what the first one is about to do and turn it to their own advantage, and so on...
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Loic Lamy
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And, if you have such a situation, you may change the roles setting. Example with 6 players : FBI-CIA-loyal instead of CIA-driver-loyal
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Tom Phillips
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We just got the game and are struggling a bit with playing 6/7 player games. Experienced Ultimate Wolf players and I am on this site looking to see what others are experiencing. We are currently limiting things to only Godfather talking with others able to answer Yes, No, or a Number. Toying around with idea of the interviews being private to see if that helps. Maybe we will get better bluffing with experience.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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lynkowsky wrote:
Being the designer, I am not sure I am the best to reply to this question (my reply may not be very objective), but I did test many times the game with 6 or 7 players and I really think the game is interesting with this number of players.


As the designer, shouldnt you actually be the best one to answer the question?
 
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Alex Rockwell
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charlest wrote:
With 6 and 7 players the game works but there is one weird meta element you may have to be aware of.

So a big thing with 6/7 is that the Godfather gets no mulligans (the little bottle whose name I can't remember), so he can't even get one guess wrong. This is very important.

With 6/7 though, a weird thing can happen where the first player to the left of the Godfather buries the FBI agent in the bag and takes the driver. Then the next two players each take a loyal Henchman. This leaves just diamonds for the rest of the players.

If your group gets stuck in this groupthink situation that this is always the best move the game will break down. This is, however, an issue with groupthink and can be avoided.

What will fix this situation is the first time that third player takes diamonds instead of that last loyal Henchman role. Once he does this and the Godfather picks incorrectly, causing that third player to win the game, your group's meta will change and adapt and this problem will go away.

So yes, I think it works well with 6/7 but you have to be careful about your group stumbling into a situation where they may think the game is broken and it requires a player to be clever to break that groupthink.



Unfortunately the resulting situation is merely a coin flip between a particular two players (the last henchman/first thief). No one other than these two players has any information at all to tell between them, so it is purely the two of them arguing over which of them stole, and then a coin flip decision between them.


This is sad to me because I really loved the taking from the box theme, and the game was interesting in our first couple games where everyone was just doing random things, not understanding the nash equilibrium strategy.
 
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Charlie Theel
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Alexfrog wrote:
charlest wrote:
With 6 and 7 players the game works but there is one weird meta element you may have to be aware of.

So a big thing with 6/7 is that the Godfather gets no mulligans (the little bottle whose name I can't remember), so he can't even get one guess wrong. This is very important.

With 6/7 though, a weird thing can happen where the first player to the left of the Godfather buries the FBI agent in the bag and takes the driver. Then the next two players each take a loyal Henchman. This leaves just diamonds for the rest of the players.

If your group gets stuck in this groupthink situation that this is always the best move the game will break down. This is, however, an issue with groupthink and can be avoided.

What will fix this situation is the first time that third player takes diamonds instead of that last loyal Henchman role. Once he does this and the Godfather picks incorrectly, causing that third player to win the game, your group's meta will change and adapt and this problem will go away.

So yes, I think it works well with 6/7 but you have to be careful about your group stumbling into a situation where they may think the game is broken and it requires a player to be clever to break that groupthink.



Unfortunately the resulting situation is merely a coin flip between a particular two players (the last henchman/first thief). No one other than these two players has any information at all to tell between them, so it is purely the two of them arguing over which of them stole, and then a coin flip decision between them.


This is sad to me because I really loved the taking from the box theme, and the game was interesting in our first couple games where everyone was just doing random things, not understanding the nash equilibrium strategy.


But that's kind of the point, because that situation is a coin flip and players earlier in order have no say or influence on the outcome, they probably shouldn't just take a role and sit it out. They should be taking their destiny in their own hands.

Regardless, I've never seen this situation once you use some of the expansion roles which really change up loyalties and strategy.
 
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Loic Lamy
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Alexfrog wrote:
lynkowsky wrote:
Being the designer, I am not sure I am the best to reply to this question (my reply may not be very objective), but I did test many times the game with 6 or 7 players and I really think the game is interesting with this number of players.


As the designer, shouldnt you actually be the best one to answer the question?


The question was "is it interesting". As the designer, of course I reply yes, it is interesting. But I'm not sure it helps a lot
 
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