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Subject: Player Trading rss

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Osprey
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Can players trade stuff between themselves during the game? For instance, somebody says "I'll trade you my salt and a privelege card for your copper and an extra action card". I'm either missing something in the rules or else the way I read them you can only trade things to the active tower player in exchange for him/her to move to a space you want them to go to so you can perform an action. I just started playing the game and we had some players just trading stuff between each other and I was looking through the rules to see if that was allowed but couldn't find anything that allows that.
 
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Joe Grundy
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Trading between non-tower players is not allowed. In fact, open trading with the tower player is not exactly allowed either.

Only three deals can be made:
1) A non-tower player makes a deal with the tower-player to take the action in an adjacant building.
2) A non-tower player makes a deal with the tower-player to take the action in the current building. (Because nobody did a deal for the action before the tower player moved there.)
3) A non-tower player makes a deal with the tower-player to move the tower to an adjacant street space.

Goods/wares/cards/ducats can flow both ways between the tower player and the non-tower player during the "deal", but one of those three things must be part of the deal, and is the next thing that happens (ie the tower player can't commit a deal for an adjacant building action and then either make a deal for the current building action or use the current building action themselves before going to the next building.)

By the way, in a two player game no deal can just be for ducats... the non-tower player is required to include something other than money in their offer.
 
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Osprey
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Thanks Joe! One other question which has come up: Can a player make a deal with the tower player to move to a location without taking an action, even if that player has already taken an action that turn? This would concern Messages and Small Orders which do not count as actions. Let's say the player makes a deal with the tower player to take the action on the starting spot then asks the tower player to move to another area, not wanting the action there, but to collect on the message or small order.
Wade
 
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Joe Grundy
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Hi Wade,

Think of it as (apart from street spaces) non-tower players are negotiating to buy actions rather than movement.

A non-tower player cannot make an offer for the tower to go to a building without the player taking the action. BUT players may be able to nudge the tower player in the desired direction by making an offer for a street space.


Section "2" of the rules (ie "The following rules govern tower moving negotiations") is pretty thorough. Here's some of the key points...

2.1 All negotiations must directly involve the tower player. ... Only 2-way deals are allowed
2.4 An offer always includes the expectation that the tower player will move the tower to a specific building and the opponent will take the action available there.
2.6 Some things may not be offered: promises for a later turn, giving away an action, giving up a right, etc.
2.7 It is especially allowed to include goods in an offer that will be acquired by the action to be taken. eg "I'll give you one of the messages if I can take the Post Office action."
2.8 An offer may also include things being given by the tower player to his opponent.
2.10 The tower player may accept an offer to move the tower to a street field. This is, of course, never associated with an action.


Also section 1 ("The trading laws of the city of Genoa") has some details embedded in it too.

1.1 When the tower is in a building without one of the players having paid the tower player to move it there (eg start of turn) the tower player asks if anyone is interested in taking the action available in that building.

1.2 covers the "usual" negotiation for a neighbouring building, then...
Note: when the tower player moves the tower to a neighbouring building without an accepted offer, he follows the rules in 1.1

Have fun!
Joe
 
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Osprey
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Thanks again Joe!
Wade
 
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Chris Shaffer
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jgrundy wrote:
2) A non-tower player makes a deal with the tower-player to take the action in the current building. (Because nobody did a deal for the action before the tower player moved there.)


Good explanation. Note that item 2 (quoted above) more commonly happens when the tower is placed in a building as a result of the dice roll. With experienced players, it's extremely rare to see the tower player move to a building without either a deal or the intent to take the action for him/herself.
 
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Chris Shaffer
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jgrundy wrote:
A non-tower player cannot make an offer for the tower to go to a building without the player taking the action. BUT players may be able to nudge the tower player in the desired direction by making an offer for a street space.


Non-tower players can also nudge the tower player in the desired direction by making promises of future deals. These promises are completely and totally non-binding on either party.
 
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J.W. Wolterman
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"Non-tower players can also nudge the tower player in the desired direction by making promises of future deals. These promises are completely and totally non-binding on either party."

We play that you can actually throw some money at the tower player to go into a particular direction. This is a fun aspect to our house rules and opens the game to "backroom politics" in a strange way.

I will often give a tower player 5 ducats just to acknowledge how well he is playing. laugh
 
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Chris Shaffer
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sasoose wrote:
We play that you can actually throw some money at the tower player to go into a particular direction. This is a fun aspect to our house rules and opens the game to "backroom politics" in a strange way.

I will often give a tower player 5 ducats just to acknowledge how well he is playing. laugh


I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like playing that variant.
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Sebastian Sohn
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Osprey wrote:
... This would concern Messages and Small Orders which do not count as actions. Let's say the player makes a deal with the tower player to take the action on the starting spot then asks the tower player to move to another area, not wanting the action there, but to collect on the message or small order.
Wade


True, but your scenario would not apply because it would require 2 actions because the you would need to take the building action at building that you deliver the small message at.

Small orders
...
Note:
...
* ... small order, ... does not take an action but the fulfilling player must be the player who takes the action for the building. ...

Traders of Genoa English Rulebook p7
 
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