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Thunderbolt Apache Leader» Forums » Rules

Subject: All my Remaining Questions rss

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Bob T
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All my remaining questions...

1) Do RQ-1 Drones only suffer from Structural and Engine hits and ignore all others? They don't have weapons so I guess Cannon, Display, HUD, and Pylon hits are meaningless. I suppose Controls would affect them if they try to fly low over Ridges. Do these other hits, Pylon etc, count as Structural hits?

2) Answered (Drones ignore Bingo fuel checks- but they still crash after Bingo 10)

3) When the Target-bound Event has you place a random extra unit, do you pick the type of unit? (I always pick an APC cause they're harmless) Or is it one extra unit of the types listed in the Battalion? Which is impossible when all the counters of that type are already in use.

4) On the first Loiter turn can you start at Low Altitude then jump up to High when it's your chance to move? This would be very useful for Slow pilots- avoid the enemy fire then switch to High altitude for your attack. Or do you have to keep your initial altitude for the whole first Loiter turn? The rules say you choose your altitude when you move, but the first turn you're also choosing it when you enter the map.

5) If a plane starts it's Loiter turn at Bingo 10 and moves off the map does it avoid crashing?

6) When a plane's leaving a Hex, ie starting its move at the edge of a hex pointing to the next one, can it still drop a few bombs at targets in the Hex it's leaving? Cause you can attack before, during, or after your movement. Or wouldn't these targets be in line-of-sight?

7) Does a "Cool" rating of 1 save your pilot 1 point every time he would take a Stress point, or is it good for only one Stress point per turn?

8) If a Pilot at Bingo 6 or Bingo 10 gets shot down (and survives) does he still get the stress from the Bingo fuel check?

9) Do Fuel and ECM Pods count as weapons points to assist with Crashed Pilot checks?


Bear in mind I haven't used the Spectre or MQ-1 Drone yet, so I'm sure I'll have more questions sometime soon...
 
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Barry Miller
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1) The answer to #1: Look at the rulebook, pg 19, left column, "Unmanned Aircraft Hits". All Hit counters except for those listed affect the RQ-1.

3) This question has been asked in the past. You'll find the designer's answer here: Re: Enemy Support Mission Event Card

4) It looks like you answered your own question.
Pg 12 makes it clear that you place your aircraft at an initial altitude. Then Pg 14 says that before you move an aircraft you must select its altitude for the turn. So, "YES", you can place the initial altitude at LOW, then when it comes time for the aircraft to move you can flip the counter to high. There could be some situational dependent reasons you would want to do this.

The only caveat is that if your initial placement is over a ridge, you CAN'T start low.

5) Your answer is on page 19, left column, "PLACE BINGO FUEL COUNTERS". The Bingo Fuel counter has to move past the "Bingo 10+" square to result in an immediate crash. So "YES", it avoids crashing. It will only suffer stress, unless you're lucky enough to roll a 10 or higher.

6) Yes. An aircraft can drop bombs in the hex which it starts its move from. But once it does, it can't do any more attacks during its move. It's done attacking. For further discussion there are several threads in these forums which talk to this question. And yes, these targets would be in LoS. Line of Sight is only a factor for stand-off attacks when at low altitude.

7) The answer to this question is on page 20, right column. A pilot's Cool Skill is only factored when recording Pilot Stress at the end of the mission. Is that what you meant by, "only good for one point per turn"?

8) Good question. My interpretation would be, "No".

EDIT: But it could go either way, so I defer to an official answer by DVG.

Why "No":
The rules clearly infer (hmmm... does that make sense?) that the Bingo Fuel check is conducted during the Home Bound flight. Also consider there is a specific sequence to the Home-Bound phase, where the Bingo Fuel check is done after the airplane has had a chance to crash. It would've crashed/got shot down either while loitering or during the Home-bound Event, which occurs before the Bingo Fuel check.

And the Bingo Fuel check rules clearly say to roll a die for each aircraft with a Bingo Fuel counter. Well if your aircraft crashed, then there is no aircraft with Bingo fuel, anymore, is there?

Why "Yes":
As your question is about a pilot who survives a crash, this occurred to me after posting my original answer. Look at the "Crashed Pilot SAR Check" on page 20. For die rolls of 6 and above, the rules clearly specify that "The Pilot rejoins the squadron after suffering normal Mission Stress,..."

It's the, "suffering normal Mission Stress" that we need to consider. It can be reasonably argued that stress induced by Bingo Fuel falls under normal Mission Stress in this context. So if the Pilot survives, and considering that this step comes after the Bingo Fuel check, then, "Yes", you would count Bingo Fuel stress even if the pilot crashed (and lived).

So like I said, an argument could be made for either way. Until another case is made for either, or until DVG chimes in, the ruling is up to you.

9) The answer to this question is clearly and specifically mentioned in the rulebook, page 20, left column, first paragraph after, "Modify the SAR check die roll as follows:"



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Bob T
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Thanks. I have a very steep learning curve when it comes to games, so I easily miss all sorts of things in the Rules.
 
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Barry Miller
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No problem. We're all here to help, but sometimes it's easier to provide an answer by sending a player back to the rulebook, except now with a specific location to look.

ALSO: I had a change of mind about question 8. See above (again).

 
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Bob T
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As far as Line Of Sight (question 6) I think it does apply to aircraft at high altitude. Hovering helicopters can fire in all six directions, but moving aircraft must abide by LOS even at high altitude. Pg 16 isn't totally clear about this though since it deals mainly with low altitude LOS.
 
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Barry Miller
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Can you share an example of what you think would be a LoS issue for an aircraft at high altitude?

Also, look at the third paragraph of page 16, left column.

 
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Bob T
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Aircraft can only attack targets within their Attack Angle at either altitude. I was getting the terms LOS and Attack Angle mixed up. I just double-checked the Attack Angle chart on the board and it sure looks like they can attack targets behind them in the hex that they're leaving, which seems odd.

I've been doing a lot of things wrong. For example, I've been drawing all the Hit counters for all aircraft from the cup- you're supposed to draw all the counters for one plane at a time, then put them back. (So if you're really unlucky everyone can theoretically draw the "Killed" counter in the same round)
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Barry Miller
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Thoth Amon wrote:
I was getting the terms LOS and Attack Angle mixed up. I just double-checked the Attack Angle chart on the board and it sure looks like they can attack targets behind them in the hex that they're leaving, which seems odd.

1) Yeah, the Attack Angle is strictly a horizontal restriction while the Line of Sight is a vertical restriction.

2) About the Attack Angle chart on the board, remember that when using that chart, your aircraft is ALWAYS in the hex containing the gray triangle. And that triangle also represents the facing of your aircraft upon exiting the hex. Thusly the chart is really only purposed for when firing STAND-OFF weapons by moving aircraft.

So while it does look like you're attacking units which are behind you in the hex that you're leaving, consider that elements of the simulation being modeled by the game need to be abstracted...

So yes, while your aircraft is positioned at the edge of the hex and is facing outward at the start of the turn, that mechanic is used to merely represent the hex you ARE IN, and the DIRECTION YOU ARE COMMITTED TO FLYING upon exiting the hex.

This abstraction does NOT imply that the targets in the hex are behind you. They don't get "behind you" till after you leave the hex. So while you're IN the hex, they are UNDER you! (And are fired upon with a STRIKE attack).


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Bob T
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Thanks. That actually makes sense of it.
 
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