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Subject: Just curious about some of the design rss

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Nathan Lee
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Hey there,

I am enjoying my learning of Churchill so far. I just had a few quick random design questions that I was wondering if anyone (especially Mark) could shed a light on. These aren't meant as criticisms, especially since they may be easily explained away. I was just curious about:

1. How were the Pol-Mil countries/colonies chosen? I can understand France and a lot of the Eastern European states, but was it really important to have Denmark, Norway, or Persia in alignment with you post-war?

I like the concept of the pol-mil stuff, how you have to establish your undercover operations there and establish your own or topple another's influence in government there, but was it for the sake of simplicity that these are weighted equally from a victory point perspective?

2. Why is the British Global issue about placing alignment markers in areas that were not traditional British colonies? Malaya yes, but Siam or Vietnam? Is this representing a general restoration of colonialism in the area, which benefited the British somehow?

3. If I understand correctly, the Stalin-bot will commit a resource to the die roll of A-Bomb development, if the issue is won by the US or UK. Is that at all historical? Perhaps I have the wrong impression, but I thought that A-Bomb development was top secret, and it seems to me that Stalin would be the last person Roosevelt/Truman would have wanted knowing about it? What does that kind of resource commitment represent?
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Bart de Groot
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I don't know about Denmark and Norway, but Iran was really important to both the British and Stalin. Stalin wanted to stay in the country but felt he couldn't push it. Iran has oil and is a major player in the middle east. The British found it important enough to do a coup together with the CIA to keep their hands on 'their' oil. The Shah was one of the major cold war allies of the US with important Soviet listening posts.

Norway I am guessing would be important for naval access to the atlantic. Denmark controls access to the Baltic sea.
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Wendell
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My name isn't Mark but I'll answer anyway!

1. To me it looks like the countries/colonies included in the game were the ones occupied by Japan/Germany as of January 1943. Not much more to it than that. Hence, no Sweden or Spain or Brazil... (With the significant exception of Persia/Middle East)

2. Historically, Churchill wanted to let the French and Dutch re-establish colonial rule in the parts of their empires occupied by Japan. Yeah, I'd say a British political alignment marker there represents a pro-COLONIAL regime flying the Dutch or French flags.

3. When the Soviets advance the a-bomb issue, that means they're committing espionage resources to it. You do remember that the Soviets get 3 VP per space they advance on that track - 12 VP possible there!
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wifwendell wrote:

1. To me it looks like the countries/colonies included in the game were the ones occupied by Japan/Germany as of January 1943. Not much more to it than that. Hence, no Sweden or Spain or Brazil... (With the significant exception of Persia/Middle East)


Finland was not an occupied country but can be influenced anyway. Also the Maghreb is not included.

I have to say I miss an issue that tinkers with neutral countries, enabling the winner to place Pol/Mil pieces on Turkey, Sweden, South America... But I realize there may be difficult to find a narrative for Spain aligning with the soviet union.

China missing any mechanic is the other elephant in the room.

I suppose it was considered but proved impractical, given the amount of time invested developing the game.
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sloop hmsstarling
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Regarding the A-Bomb issue, I believe that when the Stalin-Bot says in the Decision Segment "1. Implement A-Bomb Research." that means that when Stalin-Bot has won the A-Bomb issue on his track or in his chair, the Stalin-Bot should move the USSR "Spy" Marker 1 block ahead on the A-Bomb track for a score of 3 VP for spying and have the US-Bot or player roll for advancement of A-Bomb research. I don't believe that this means that the Stalin-Bot would provide a production marker to aid the US in advancing the issue, because Stalin can score all 12 VPs for spying whether or not the A-Bomb ever advances toward the Trinity block.

The Churchill-Bot reads the same as the Stalin-Bot for the Decision Segment "1. Implement A-Bomb Research." and in this case I believe that this means that when Churchill-Bot has won the A-Bomb issue on his track or in his chair, the Churchill-Bot would have the US player roll for advancement of A-Bomb research. I don't believe that this means that the Churchill-Bot would provide a production marker to aid the US in advancing the issue.

The Roosevelt-Bot reads differently for the Decision Segment "1. Implement A-Bomb Research, if Trinity not achieved during conferences 8+ then use one Production for die roll modifier." In this case I believe that this means that when the Roosevelt-Bot has won the A-Bomb issue on his track or in his chair in Conferences 1-7, he should roll for advancement of A-Bomb Research without using a Production marker as a die roll modifier; however if the Roosevelt-Bot has won this issue in Conferences 8, 9, and 10 and Trinity has not been achieved, then the Roosevelt-Bot would add one Production for a die roll modifier.

The only Bot that mentions adding a Production marker for a die roll modifier is Roosevelt, and since the other two are silent on this aspect of implementing A-Bomb research, I believe that Stalin-Bot and Churchill-Bot would not add a Production marker for a die roll modifier, letting Roosevelt sink or swim on his own merits.

In a recent live three-player game, I played Roosevelt and was getting nervous about Trinity in Conference 9 so I added two Production markers, and then gasp!, rolled a 1!!! So the next and last conference, I had to put the issue on the table again, win it with staff cards, and then plowed three Production markers onto the die roll to automatically advance to Trinity, and gained Emperor Surrender when Germany surrendered to the Western Front advancing into Germany. Lesson learned: it would have been a lot better to have spent one more Production in Conference 9, than having to set up the issue all over again and pay for it all over again in Conference 10!

The Bots of course are not so lavish on plowing Production markers into A-Bomb research, but then they haven't been watching the Manhattan series on TV!

edit: Major typo on the A-Bomb roll in Conference 9, gasp!, thanks Tucker for catching it! The roll was a 1, and thus the attempt with two Production failed, and I inadvertently typed 6 when I should have typed 1, now corrected!

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Vez A
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Quote:
Finland was not an occupied country but can be influenced anyway.


I don't know how "occupied country" is defined, but my country of birth was an ally of Germany. The close proximity of St Petersburg / Leningrad to the Finnish border makes the country to this day a strategically important location (and a pain in the butt for its foreign policy).

In the so-called continuation war from 1941 to 1944 Finnish and German forces would jointly push toward the east, an effort that would collapse with the fall of the axis.
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Tucker Taylor
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jhope wrote:
Regarding the A-Bomb issue, I believe that when the Stalin-Bot says in the Decision Segment "1. Implement A-Bomb Research." that means that when Stalin-Bot has won the A-Bomb issue on his track or in his chair, the Stalin-Bot should move the USSR "Spy" Marker 1 block ahead on the A-Bomb track for a score of 3 VP for spying and have the US-Bot or player roll for advancement of A-Bomb research.

"Implement A-Bomb Research" means:

1) If Stalin won the issue, advance the Soviet pawn.
2) Everyone gets the chance to spend production to boost the die roll. (Franklin Delano Roosebot spends 1 production in conferences 8-10.)
3) Roll a d6 and add 1 for each production spent. On a modified 4+, advance the US pawn.

Neither Winstbot Churchill nor Josef Steelman ever spend any production on the die roll. "Implement A-Bomb Research" is listed first for all of them because spending 1 US production is the highest priority for Roosebot, so that gives it the chance to do so.

Quote:
In a recent live three-player game, I played Roosevelt and was getting nervous about Trinity in Conference 9 so I added two Production markers, and then gasp!, rolled a 6!!!

So, you succeeded! (Doesn't really matter whether you want to roll high or roll low, as long as you're consistent.)
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sloop hmsstarling
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Tucker,

Thanks very much for catching my typo on my A-Bomb die roll! I edited my original post to show the failed roll of 1! And I have to tell you that I am consistent in my die rolling, always rolling opposite of what I want! In the three player game I mentioned where I was Roosevelt, I was actually mostly Truman, because on the first Conference (number 6 of the Tournament scenario), I had put the A-Bomb issue on the table, and Stalin won the conference! So, looking to pull a "Stalin" and capture the A-bomb issue immediately with no spy opportunity, I played Roosevelt on the first card play, brought the A-Bomb issue to my chair, rolled for the Roosevelt health effect wanting to roll high, but lo and behold, there it was snake eyes staring me in the face! I soldiered on with Truman ...

Jan
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Daniel Blumentritt
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Quote:
Finland was not an occupied country but can be influenced anyway.


Well, part of it was occupied by Russia....
 
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Kurt Purcell
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And some still is:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karelia
 
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Greg Wilmoth
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wifwendell wrote:
2. Historically, Churchill wanted to let the French and Dutch re-establish colonial rule in the parts of their empires occupied by Japan. Yeah, I'd say a British political alignment marker there represents a pro-COLONIAL regime flying the Dutch or French flags.

For everything you might want to know, and a lot more you probably don't, check out In the Ruins of Empire: The Japanese Surrender and the Battle for Postwar Asia, by Ronald A. Spector. British forces, especially Indian troops, ended up handling much of the initial liberation of Southeast Asia. Although initially welcomed, nationalist and communist cadres were in place, and it did not end well.
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Greg Wilmoth
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arubiero wrote:

But I realize there may be difficult to find a narrative for Spain aligning with the soviet union.

In David Stone's War Summits: The Meetings That Shaped World War II and the Postwar World, he says that at Potsdam Stalin suggested that all the United Nations (also known as the Allied powers) should sever relations with Franco's regime and take action to remove him. Churchill and Truman were reluctant to re-open the Spanish Civil War, but the conference did issue a note of censure stating that Franco's government owed its existence to the Axis powers and was therefore ineligible for membership in the new United Nations organization.

Allowing Spain to align with the Soviet Union might be a stretch, but removing the Franco regime might qualify as an issue to move up and down the conference table if Mark ever decided to make an extension. An issue the Soviets would want to advance, and one the US and UK would want to avoid.



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