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Hey, so my group is going through the Twin Shadows campaign and we came across a situation where there was only one elite Stormtrooper remaining in his group and it was his activation. He was also the only imperial figure that could possibly be within two spaces. As the imperial player, I have (from the Inspiring Leadership class deck):

Field General, 3xp:
Exhaust this card. You gain: [Special Action] Executive Order: Chose a friendly figure within 2 spaces. That figure may interrupt to perform a move or attack.

Lead by Example, 4xp:
After a figure resolves an "Executive Order," it may perform a move or attack.

We have four main questions with these cards:

1. Can an imperial figure with Field General use executive order on himself?
2. During his activation, can an imperial figure attack, and then use Field General to executive order himself to interrupt and attack again?
3. During his activation, can an imperial figure attack, use Executive Order (Elite Imperial Officer or from Field General), and then use Lead by Example to attack again?
4. Finally, can an imperial figure attack, and then use Field General's Executive Order to order himself to attack, and then attack again using Lead by Example? This would give a lone figure a net total of 3 attacks in one activation.

I will post my opinion in spoiler tags to avoid pre-influencing anyone's take on this.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

My opinion is yes to all four questions, but my rebel players mostly disagree.

#1 - Yes. A figure is friendly to itself ("Friendly Figure" RRG, pg 13) and a figure is also within two spaces of itself ("Counting Spaces" RRG, pg 9). My rebel players' main argument against this is that it goes against the theme of the card (though I think you could inspire the extra effort in yourself just as well as others, but I digress). They also argue that on the Imperial Officer cards and Gideon, it states that you can only order "another" friendly figure. Given the space available on the small class cards, they argue that FFG probably meant to put the word "another" on the card but didn't have room.

#2 - Yes. Per "Interrupt" RRG, pg 15, "When resolving an interrupt ability, players pause the current action of the game and resolve the interrupting ability. After the effect is resolved, players resume playing from the point that was interrupted." And, "It is possible for a figure to interrupt its own activation." I.e. Whatever happens during the interrupt occurs outside of the current activation. Therefore, this does not count as two attacks in that activation. See rule below:

"Special Situations Regarding Attacks" RRG, pg 6:
"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as Nexu's 'Pounce' or Darth Vader's 'Brutality').

- If an ability allows a figure to perform an attack outside of its activation, this attack does not count toward the limit of one attack per activation."

My rebel players are mostly ok with this, but we didn't have time to fully look up the rules on this one as they were stuck on the self-order thing.

#3 - Yes. Since Lead by Example is not an action, the imperial figure can perform the 2nd attack.

When we were discussing it, I did not realize that the RRG only limits actions. I am fairly certain that Lead by Example is not an action.

#4 - If #'s 1, 2 and 3 are correct, then I would say that yes, the imperial figure could attack 3 times.


All this is to clarify, can my red Stormtrooper unload 3 times on Saska to avenge his fallen allies, or is 7xp worth of class cards negated by the fact that I only have one figure left in the area?

Thanks for reading! Would love to have some impartial input to make sure I am not con'ing my rebel players.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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nikokcg wrote:
1. Can an imperial figure with Field General use executive order on himself?
No. The card will apparently soon have errata so that it matches the wording on the Elite Imperial Officer (including the word 'other'). Even without that, it is intended to not be used on yourself.

Quote:
2. During his activation, can an imperial figure attack, and then use Field General to executive order himself to interrupt and attack again?
No. See above.

Quote:
3. During his activation, can an imperial figure attack, use Executive Order (Elite Imperial Officer or from Field General), and then use Lead by Example to attack again?
Using a literal interpretation of the rules, yes, this is acceptable (provided you have a figure to Executive Order). The opposite order of actions is correct too. This is because Lead by Example is not an action, and the restriction is on taking actions only.

However, I think I will send this off to FFG to see if it is intended.

Quote:
4. Finally, can an imperial figure attack, and then use Field General's Executive Order to order himself to attack, and then attack again using Lead by Example? This would give a lone figure a net total of 3 attacks in one activation.
No, as per answer to question 1.

Quote:
All this is to clarify, can my red Stormtrooper unload 3 times on Saska to avenge his fallen allies, or is 7xp worth of class cards negated by the fact that I only have one figure left in the area?
Yeah, without anyone to order, the officer training doesn't really help at all.
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Pasi Ojala
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My current guess is that they might've accidentally shortened the Executive Order text and left out the another. The Executive Order includes the another in the Imperial Officer card.

But now that the mistake is made, FFG may rule it with literal interpretation. (Unless errata'ed.) It would still be odd to have an identically named ability work differently from different sources.

However, because the gained Executive Order of Field General is an action, whoever it is attached to and exhausts it to gain the action, still can not use it and another action to attack during its activation. (The figure would attack during both of its actions, which is not allowed.) So, there is should be no issue.

You could use Executive Order of Field General to give yourself an attack, but that is a wasteful way when you can just use your own attack directly... unless you have Lead by Example.

Lead by Example is not an action, so it indeed gives a figure a second attack automatically after an Executive Order, and could be comboed with Executive Order of Field General to be able to attack twice during their activation. If you put Lead by Example on an Imperial Officer, he can attack three times (by using both Executive Order special actions, the Field General one to himself).

1.It seems so, but maybe errata'ed.
2.No. I don't think so.
3.Currently, Yes.
4.No,
unless it's an Imperial Officer giving Executive Order from his card to another figure and from Field General to himself.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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a1bert wrote:
But now that the mistake is made, FFG may rule it with literal interpretation. (Unless errata'ed.)
They won't in this regard. I have actually asked this question before as I noticed the odd wording and its implication.

The response is that both Field Officer and Field General will have errata to make the text match the wording on the Regular and Elite Imperial Officers.
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Pasi Ojala
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You are probably correct, it would be odd to have an identically named ability work differently.
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Tala Mare
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I would rule it that yes
You can use Executive Order on yourself and
Yes you can use it to attack 3x with a single unit.

Until there is an official Errata, those are the rules as written
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Christian Gienger
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Talamare wrote:
I would rule it that yes
You can use Executive Order on yourself and
Yes you can use it to attack 3x with a single unit.

Until there is an official Errata, those are the rules as written

I disagree. The rules say "gain executive order" and show the reminder text. That reminder will be errata-ed before long as they consequently use the same ability names for the same abilities. If executive order on the imperial officer was a mistake they'd corrected it by now.


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Jorgen Peddersen
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It's up to you how you want to play the game, Tala, but the response I received is official and indicates errata is on the way for Field Officer and Field General.

It's clearly not intended that the rules be used literally in this case.
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Tala Mare
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Clipper wrote:
It's up to you how you want to play the game, Tala, but the response I received is official and indicates errata is on the way for Field Officer and Field General.

It's clearly not intended that the rules be used literally in this case.
I really don't disagree with you Clipper and have the most respect for you. Just until it is in their official documents... RAW is RAW...

They should hurry up and update their documents~
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Jorgen Peddersen
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OK, then I will say that 3 attacks isn't actually possible with your literal interpretation, except in the case of the Elite Imperial Officer with someone to order. Pasi's original interpretation would still hold.

If you use the (pre-errata) Field General's Executive Order to order yourself, then you are using an action to perform an attack within your activation and hence the Executive Order is an attack action. It is impossible to take another action that performs an attack in the same activation.

So the only way to get three attacks is for an Elite Imperial Officer to use its normal Executive Order on a friendly figure, then get an attack from Lead By Example, then use the Field General Executive Order on himself to attack, then get a second Lead by Example attack.

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Pasi Ojala
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Clipper wrote:
but the response I received is official and indicates errata is on the way for Field Officer and Field General.
Ah! That you already received an answer wasn't quite clear from your previous posts.
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Jo Bartok
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Why would a non hero figure gain another option to do an attack. Any figure that gains that has it explicitly written like the E-Web Engineer or the Brutality action.

From RRG 6:
"Unlike heroes, a figure that has a Deployment card can use only one of its actions to attack per activation. This includes using special actions that involve performing one or more attacks (such as the Nexu’s “Pounce” or Darth Vader’s “Brutality”).
- If an ability allows a figure to perform an attack outside of its activation, this attack does not count toward the limit of one attack per activation."

E.g. as long as it is "within the figures activation" you will only be able to do one attack, imho.

Note: I don't know the cards in Twin Shadows. Not arrived yet.
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Edit: Ah now I see - it is an IP player skill card.
I'd interpret that as a golden rule which would add the option to have a 2nd attack onto "Executive Order".
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Jorgen Peddersen
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ionas, the subtlety here is that the restriction is on attacking actions, not on attacks.

The correct wording of Executive Order (on the Elite Imperial Officer) means that Executive Order is not an attacking action, neither for the figure using Executive Order nor the chosen figure.

Lead by Example doesn't turn it into an attacking action either.
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Jo Bartok
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Clipper wrote:
nikokcg wrote:

3. During his activation, can an imperial figure attack, use Executive Order (Elite Imperial Officer or from Field General), and then use Lead by Example to attack again?
Using a literal interpretation of the rules, yes, this is acceptable (provided you have a figure to Executive Order). The opposite order of actions is correct too. This is because Lead by Example is not an action, and the restriction is on taking actions only.

However, I think I will send this off to FFG to see if it is intended.

Got an answer, yet?

My assumption is (to be honest) that it is intended. If it were not, they had left out "attack" and only listed move. If you leave out attack you have no rules issues. It will simply allow you to play MOVE + MOVE or ATTACK + MOVE and ALWAYS have an Executive Order available.

By adding the "attack" keyword it means you could ATTACK + MOVE, MOVE + MOVE and ATTACK + ATTACK and the whole "Lead by Example" theme makes a lot of sense then. Basically you do something and the other figure does the same (thematically).

E.g. if it wasn't intended there would be no reason to add "attack" as the figure can already do attack & move/EO+move without the attack word on the card.
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Pasi Ojala
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Sustained Fire and other class cards can give new abilities without them being written on the deployment cards. They override the normal restriction of "not attack in two separate actions during your activation".

Lead by Example is not an action, so it gets around the limitation that way.

Assault explicitly allows to have both actions perform attacks (whether they are normal attack actions or special actions). Brutality does not break or allow to break the limitation, because it performs two attacks in one action.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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ionas wrote:
Got an answer, yet?

I asked only 5 hours ago and it's not even 8AM in Minnesota yet, so no.
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Pasi Ojala
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ionas wrote:
My assumption is (to be honest) that it is intended. If it were not, they had left out "attack" and only listed move. If you leave out attack you have no rules issues.
I think you have somewhat missed the point of the discussion. The point was not Executive Order vs. Order. The issue is that Executive Order on the class card Field General allowed to gain a version of Executive Order that could order yourself, thus taking two Lead by Example attacks.

It idea of the Field General is to give Executive Order to other figures than Imperial Officer. But note that using the Field General is possible for only one figure in a group (per round), because it exhausts when used.
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Jay Whitcomb
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Clipper wrote:
ionas wrote:
Got an answer, yet?

I asked only 5 hours ago and it's not even 8AM in Minnesota yet, so no.
It's also a holiday here in the US, so I wouldn't hold your breath on receiving a response any time today.
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Tala Mare
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I don't think there is even anything we need to ask FFG

I doubt anyone disagrees at all on this thread.

Yes, Lead by Example let's you attack more than once if you have Executive Order.

No, Executive Order should not be possible to be to used on yourself and will be errata'd, however it is not in official document's (yet). So you can choose how you want to play.

The only slightly questionable thing is if the PreErrata'd action to cause an attack can be used with a normal attack action. Even then, this is a question that has at most only limited time use. Especially if they are serious about the upcoming Errata. Which they probably are.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I have now received a reply and yes, it is fully intended for Lead by Example to not affect the restriction on attack actions within a turn.

So my post at the start of the thread matches the way the game is intended to play and will also soon match the written rules.
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Greg C
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Question about field general.

Scenario:

Field general is attached to heavy storm trooper group.

Heavy storm trooper group activates.

Heavy 1, activates first. Uses executive order to order heavy 2 to attack. Heavy 1, then performs an attack with its second action. Heavy 1 is done with its activation.

Heavy 2 activates and attacks.

Now in this instance, heavy 2 made 2 attacks.

The question: which activation takes precedence? Is it the group activation or the individual figure activation. If it's group activation, then heavy 2 couldn't attack a second time due to 1 attack per activation rule. If it's the individual activation, then the scenario above is acceptable.

I'm guessing it's the individual activation that matters and it's possible to have that heavy fire twice but wanted to get others opinions. The rrg below talks about activating the group and each figure in the group separately.

Rrg page 3 activation: while activating a group of two or more figures, the player resolves two actions for each figure in that group before his opponent resolves an activation.

Rrg page 3 activation phase: while activating a group of two or more figures, the player activates all figures in the group, one at a time, in the order of his choice.
 
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Pasi Ojala
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Reiryc wrote:
Heavy 2 activates and attacks.

Now in this instance, heavy 2 made 2 attacks.

The question: which activation takes precedence? Is it the group activation or the individual figure activation.
That's just fine. When you select a group, all figures activate separately in succession.

Here you quote it.
Rrg page 3 activation phase: wrote:
while activating a group of two or more figures, the player activates all figures in the group, one at a time, in the order of his choice.
 
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