Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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I backed the Kickstarter for only one copy of the game.
After a few plays, I am actually enjoying it enough that I wish I'd gotten 3 for the potential of building some decks and taking advantage of the currently-useless "God Cards" for an alternate play mode (useless because they depend on having 3 copies of everything).

As a Kickstarter Bonus, there was a pack with the aforementioned God Cards, plus some extra Tokens with alternate art (which were marked with a "Kickstarter Backer" logo), plus 5 extra cards for each faction (which were not specially marked).

Just wondering if those extra cards are planned to be released as promos over time, or will be otherwise accessible without going to the "secondary market".

I don't want to pay big bucks for them, but it would be "nice to have" out of a sense of completionism if I purchase more copies of the game for a collection.

I don't need extra copies of the God Cards, and while extra Tokens are always nice those also aren't absolutely necessary. Just those 20 "normal" cards are what I'm curious about.

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From what I remember, yes, they will, but not for a year or so.
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Robert Dougherty
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Those additional cards will eventually be released for sale, probably a year or so down the road. You will be able to tell the difference between the kickstarter ones and the later release (different art, or gem icon, or both), but they will be functionally the same cards.

So unless you want them soon, you don't have to buy them on ebay. :)

Also, for our official constructed tournaments, you will only be able to use cards that are in distribution. So you wouldn't be allowed to use the kickstarter promos in a tournament till those cards are widely available.

Basically we don't want epic to be about who spends the most on cards.

Thanks,
Rob

PS: The deck list on the back of the Elder God cards is a suggested list. Feel free to build any deck you like for that Elder God to use.

PPS: Typo "aren't" changed to "are".
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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Thanks Rob.
Was really just a matter of curiosity.
Right now, my only opponent is my 7-year-old and we've been playing with the 35-card "faction decks" and having a great time. That's probably as far as we'll get, but it would be fun to have a fuller card pool to start building decks to play against each other eventually.
I doubt I'll ever play in an official Event.

Either way, I'll keep an eye out for the promos being released.

Thanks again, and great job on the game

P.S. I still miss Your Move Games




 
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jozxyqk wrote:

P.S. I still miss Your Move Games


They're alive and well! Just published 3 new factions for Battleground, actually

</thread-derailment>
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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gatesphere wrote:
jozxyqk wrote:

P.S. I still miss Your Move Games


They're alive and well! Just published 3 new factions for Battleground, actually

</thread-derailment>


I'm talking about the brick-and-mortar FLGS in Somerville MA (the company's namesake), at which I spent many many many nights between the day I discovered it in 1994 and the day it closed in 2010.
 
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jozxyqk wrote:
gatesphere wrote:
jozxyqk wrote:

P.S. I still miss Your Move Games


They're alive and well! Just published 3 new factions for Battleground, actually

</thread-derailment>


I'm talking about the brick-and-mortar FLGS in Somerville MA (the company's namesake), at which I spent many many many nights between the day I discovered it in 1994 and the day it closed in 2010.


Oh, shame.
 
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Rob_of_YMG wrote:

Also, for our official constructed tournaments, you will only be able to use cards that aren't in distribution.

Very interesting policy, but perhaps too limiting
Are base game cards KS promos marked some way, ( expansion symbol / collectors number etc? Any other means of easy recognition if card is Legal in base only tournaments?

 
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I think this is the first time that I've heard that these aren't tourney legal.
 
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roborob wrote:
I think this is the first time that I've heard that these aren't tourney legal.


Our tournament rules are not yet released, because we don't yet have official tournaments. =) But yes, as Rob said, in our constructed tournaments you will only be able to use cards that have ever been for sale. All of the "normal" game cards in the backers kit (Teleport, Elder Greatwurm, and so on) will be for sale during our second year, and once that happens they can be used then.

You can tell the difference between which cards can be used in constructed tournaments by the shape of the gem in the lower-right corner.

Basically, we want Epic to be a strategy card game where it comes down to skill and some luck, and not who-spends-the-most, to determine a winner.

Our official rules will have the official rules, as it were, about how promo cards can be used in events.

- Nathan Davis
Studio Manager, White Wizard Games
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I did not notice that the backer-kit cards had a different "gem shape" until you just said this. It's extremely subtle.
Thanks for pointing it out.
 
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Well there goes my plan to sell a set of promo cards for ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

More seriously, will we be able to use these when they are available at retail, even though our promos will have the alternate gem symbol?
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greyhawke115 wrote:
Well there goes my plan to sell a set of promo cards for ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

More seriously, will we be able to use these when they are available at retail, even though our promos will have the alternate gem symbol?


Yes.

- Nathan
 
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NathanWWG wrote:


Our tournament rules are not yet released, because we don't yet have official tournaments. =) But yes, as Rob said, in our constructed tournaments you will only be able to use cards that have ever been for sale. All of the "normal" game cards in the backers kit (Teleport, Elder Greatwurm, and so on) will be for sale during our second year, and once that happens they can be used then.

Our official rules will have the official rules, as it were, about how promo cards can be used in events.

- Nathan Davis
Studio Manager, White Wizard Games


So we are going to work our butts off to try and win an official tournament, to win a card, that we can not even use...

I could understand maybe restricting it to cards that are possible to obtain through tournaments ( so only like 3-4 are available like each quarter or whatever ) and/or limiting it to one copy since thats probably all your gonna get with a win or participation but to not be able to use them at all is a little harsh
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ErnieB wrote:
So we are going to work our butts off to try and win an official tournament, to win a card, that we can not even use...

I could understand maybe restricting it to cards that are possible to obtain through tournaments ( so only like 3-4 are available like each quarter or whatever ) and/or limiting it to one copy since thats probably all your gonna get with a win or participation but to not be able to use them at all is a little harsh


You cannot use it in tournaments, but you can add it to your draft cube or if you win enough tournaments (and did not kickstart the game), you won't have to buy the mass market reprint of the set. You will also have different art from other players.
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Robert Dougherty
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The promo cards are awesome for your personal draft set and you're just-for-fun constructed games. When the cards come out in a set later, your old version will have some visual differences so may be collectible.

I'm sure some folks will occasionally put on a "you can use anything" tournament, but for our normal official events we don't want card access to be a limiting factor for players.

Thanks,
Rob

ErnieB wrote:
NathanWWG wrote:


Our tournament rules are not yet released, because we don't yet have official tournaments. =) But yes, as Rob said, in our constructed tournaments you will only be able to use cards that have ever been for sale. All of the "normal" game cards in the backers kit (Teleport, Elder Greatwurm, and so on) will be for sale during our second year, and once that happens they can be used then.

Our official rules will have the official rules, as it were, about how promo cards can be used in events.

- Nathan Davis
Studio Manager, White Wizard Games


So we are going to work our butts off to try and win an official tournament, to win a card, that we can not even use...

I could understand maybe restricting it to cards that are possible to obtain through tournaments ( so only like 3-4 are available like each quarter or whatever ) and/or limiting it to one copy since thats probably all your gonna get with a win or participation but to not be able to use them at all is a little harsh
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Speaking as a Kickstarter backer, I am thrilled that the promos are not allowed in tournaments. There are plenty of other popular card games where spending more gives you an advantage, go play one of those if you want.
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djinniman wrote:
Speaking as a Kickstarter backer, I am thrilled that the promos are not allowed in tournaments. There are plenty of other popular card games where spending more gives you an advantage, go play one of those if you want.

In constructed, the person that spent more (3 boxes) has an advantage over the person who spent less (1 box).
 
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roborob wrote:
djinniman wrote:
Speaking as a Kickstarter backer, I am thrilled that the promos are not allowed in tournaments. There are plenty of other popular card games where spending more gives you an advantage, go play one of those if you want.

In constructed, the person that spent more (3 boxes) has an advantage over the person who spent less (1 box).


That's true, but the entry point for the maximum legal number of copies of of every single card is low (less than $50). This discussion was more about the promos, which will be harder to come by.
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Nathan Davis
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roborob wrote:
djinniman wrote:
Speaking as a Kickstarter backer, I am thrilled that the promos are not allowed in tournaments. There are plenty of other popular card games where spending more gives you an advantage, go play one of those if you want.

In constructed, the person that spent more (3 boxes) has an advantage over the person who spent less (1 box).


We assume that everyone playing constructed will have relatively-inexpensive access to every card they need. Not just to build one deck, but to build any deck. As the game grows, and expansions are released, that cost will increase over time (of course), but even then we think we have a great value for constructed-deck card games.

A full constructed playset of Epic on launch will cost exactly $45 MSRP. Compare that to any card game in the market where you build a deck before play, (CCG, TCG, LCG[tm] or otherwise) and I think you'll see we're a great value.

- Nathan Davis
Studio Manager, WWG
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roborob wrote:
djinniman wrote:
Speaking as a Kickstarter backer, I am thrilled that the promos are not allowed in tournaments. There are plenty of other popular card games where spending more gives you an advantage, go play one of those if you want.

In constructed, the person that spent more (3 boxes) has an advantage over the person who spent less (1 box).


And the person who bought 1 box has a considerable advantage over the person who bought 0! The difference is - I didn't want to start playing Netrunner because I can see where it would lead, financially. I could see myself playing this - even competitively.
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Ossian Grr aka "Josh"
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I bet someone will also figure out a competitive one-box deck that holds its own in tournaments. Extra style points for that player.
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If people want to have a max-copies-one tournament* of some sort, we aren't going to say no! That's what's great about Epic -- so many ways to play.

Greylag: I'm glad you think this game might be worth playing competitively. We think so too. =) I *adore* Android: Netrunner... it is my favorite two-player game (excluding games we make). I was not thrilled to have to purchase the starter box at $40 MSRP three times, just so I could make one of the main competitive decks at the beginning. I did it, because I love the game, but I wonder how many others didn't.

We could have put 3x of each card into one $45 box. I am certain that fewer players would try the game as a result.

- Nathan Davis
Studio Manager, WWG
* That tournament cannot be called Highlander(tm), though.

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Rob_of_YMG wrote:
Those additional cards will eventually be released for sale, probably a year or so down the road. You will be able to tell the difference between the kickstarter ones and the later release (different art, or gem icon, or both), but they will be functionally the same cards.

So unless you want them soon, you don't have to buy them on ebay.

Also, for our official constructed tournaments, you will only be able to use cards that are in distribution. So you wouldn't be allowed to use the kickstarter promos in a tournament till those cards are widely available.

Basically we don't want epic to be about who spends the most on cards.

Thanks,
Rob

PS: The deck list on the back of the Elder God cards is a suggested list. Feel free to build any deck you like for that Elder God to use.

PPS: Typo "aren't" changed to "are".



This is a wise decision. I'm old enough to have more games and money to buy them with than time and people to play them with, so I've got the luxury of being able to make the decision to not play an otherwise good game solely on the basis of the fact that I find the "kickstarter exclusive" game components very irritating.

This is very important in an age of competitive card games when there already alternatives (Netrunner and Ashes come immediately to mind) which already abide this rule:

Quote:
Basically we don't want epic to be about who spends the most on cards.


When this game showed up in the BGG hotness and I came by to check it out, this post was the most important information for me to know. Simply knowing that I'll never have to be in the position of saying "Well, I need to be able to include X to make this competitive deck work, but I didn't buy the Kickstarter" is enough to assuage any reservations I had about this being a Kickstarter game. I'll look forward to picking it up when the game reaches regular release!
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NathanWWG wrote:
If people want to have a max-copies-one tournament* of some sort, we aren't going to say no! That's what's great about Epic -- so many ways to play.

Greylag: I'm glad you think this game might be worth playing competitively. We think so too. =) I *adore* Android: Netrunner... it is my favorite two-player game (excluding games we make). I was not thrilled to have to purchase the starter box at $40 MSRP three times, just so I could make one of the main competitive decks at the beginning. I did it, because I love the game, but I wonder how many others didn't.

We could have put 3x of each card into one $45 box. I am certain that fewer players would try the game as a result.

- Nathan Davis
Studio Manager, WWG
* That tournament cannot be called Highlander(tm), though.



You pretty much summed up why i never got into any LCG ever despire really likeing what i saw.
I dont want to buy the base box 3 times to have access to all the cards and then have tons of useless chaff sitting around collecting dust.

And here i can get everything i need for about the same price as oe of those LCG base sets.

But i have to say i really like the post launch releases for LCGs. One box to get all the cards you need is pretty cool.
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