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Subject: Card draft/deck draft rss

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matheus cohen
Brazil
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Hey guys, sometime ago i posted a thread about a cthulhu project of mine...and after all the testing and interactions i came to a cross road again.

To give you guys a brief description of the game:

Short description of Theme: lovecraft universe:

You are the leader of a cult of a single major being, and is trying tu summon him and bring the madness which you see as true enlightment to earth.

Take too long, and the portal you started to open will shatter space and wake allmighty azathoth bringing complete doom and put the world to a end.

Gameplay: the game will have a clock-like board, with 12 spaces on it. Every turn the board will move 1 space.
Every turn you will(normally) only have acess to the 3 spaces in front of you, placing cultists and lesser beings.

The game starts picking up the pace when the board starts getting filled, and you start trying to make patterns around the board to summon bigger beings or your major ancient one and end the game.

Picture giving a idea of the game:



Ok, now to my problem:
You choose your ancient/major one in the beggining of the game, and place it on the table(the green card in the smaller circle), and choose most of your cards ans strategies based on this choice.

Then from a 30-card deck, each player will draft 5 cards, this are your big guys that will stay on the board (the yellow cards), they will be your main forces which you will use for patterns and 'battles', and even when they 'die' they will go back to your hand waiting to be re-summoned.


Now, my problem lies in the small units.
Currently we are working with a small 40-card deck with all kinds of small creatures or spells, everyone draws from this deck. Mechanically it's working, but i have some issues:

1- by having all people sharing the same deck, trying different strategies may be hard, as the number of cards that may help your game style are smaller.

2- when you look at it from a thematic point of view, it gets weird, as you may draw a elder thing when you are trying to summon cthulhu.

So the thing is:

Should i change this to small(around 20 cards) individual decks? Do you think that having a specific and customizable deck is a good thing for a game
Even though it will rise the card count and may make things expensive
This would allow those deck building pre-game, and open up to more strategic diversity

The good poin of a shared deck is that it gets faster to setup...and i think that's it lol

Do you have any ideas that may be used?

Well...i'm pretty sure i didn't explain well... sorry for any grammar mistakes and thnks for your time meeple

 
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maf man
United States
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tecocohen wrote:
You are the leader of a cult of a single major being, and is trying tu summon him and bring the madness which you see as true enlightment to earth.
.....
Now, my problem lies in the small units.
Currently we are working with a small 40-card deck with all kinds of small creatures or spells, everyone draws from this deck. Mechanically it's working, but i have some issues:

1- by having all people sharing the same deck, trying different strategies may be hard, as the number of cards that may help your game style are smaller.

2- when you look at it from a thematic point of view, it gets weird, as you may draw a elder thing when you are trying to summon cthulhu.
.....
This would allow those deck building pre-game, and open up to more strategic diversity

The good poin of a shared deck is that it gets faster to setup...and i think that's it lol


If your worried about the theme, don't be. There can certainly be opposing cults that worship the same monsters. If anything you may need to change your story but I don't think many players would think twice if the game works.
Making the game cost more and adding set-up time is a good concern to have but it shouldn't change a good working game. If separate decks is what it takes to make your game great than do it.
There could be other solutions to the possible strategy problem you mentioned. Perhaps a simple trade two cards you don't want to draw a new one.

In my personal view I'd like to see this type of game share that draw pile. I think it could make for some good decisions like do you use every card you get or try to get the ones that go together or try to use opposite of you opponent hoping they pass on your* cards. But thats just my opinion motivated by curiosity. So many games are out there that has players use their own deck, it works. So just try to see which your game seems to work better with.
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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About my story, i did a really brief short average description because my english isn't that good to tell a story anyway, i'll study that harder later.

I do know that many beings worship different gods but still, i feel kinda weird that when you are playing 'with' being A, the cards in your hand are related to being B who is A's enemy...of course many games doesn't care about that lol so my concern was if it was a doorcloser to some.

Other thing is, the game is about patterns, and some strategies focus on moving the board to make many, stall the board to do the same pattern many times or sometimes you just go for little points with cultists ignoring the major power struggle.

With that i mean: 'ok i'll go with being A whose focus is to pattern out like crazy, but all my hand is to go for small cultists', i do see a good point in here that this force olayers to change strategies, just not sure its the right way...

I'll really try out this suggestions of yours, drawing and passing do look like good options...
 
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John Breckenridge
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Drawing cards from a common deck works thematically:
"I discovered this artifact!" "Sadly, that is useless at summoning our Master. It does the Church of the Starless Sky no good. But at least you've kept it out of the hands of the Daughters of Dagon."


It works as a game mechanic:
Drawing a card that would be more useful to your opponent than to yourself makes the player have to choose between keeping it in his hand where it takes up valuable space but he knows his opponent doesn't have it, or discarding it to draw something better. It's a classic offense vs. defense strategy decision.
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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Can you think of a thematic way to make sense if the card drawn is a 'minion'? I'm really trying to make this work out on my mind.

I do agree that this make sense when talking about artefacts.

I think that if i give the proper balance and ways to make a fair trade -open hand kf something player B may want for a chance of having that minion you crave for- this may be the better solution
 
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maf man
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you could call drawing from the deck "pulling a minion from the dark abyss", who knows if you'll draw something useful.

let me try to use an example. Zombie = a type of semi-powerful minion. Fire type = better for strategy A. Ice type = better for strategy B.

I as a player for chulu wants fire minions. I draw a card, thematically summoning a minion to help my cause. I get a ice zombie, it doesn't go with my other fire minions but its still a monster to do my bidding. Maybe I keep it because its a zombie and is more powerful than my other minions, maybe I let my opponent have it, maybe I.......fill in the blank.

 
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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That is indeed acceptable i'm not a expert on cthulhu theme so if anyone who knows it better has anything against it plz tell lol

I liked your suggestions, just have to think of something useful to do when you draw the wrong thing, keeping it from other player is a good point but it's lacking.

As you didn't choose to draw that, and you can't do anything REALLY useful with that card, i think it will lack a bit of real interaction.
I do have a mechanic were you can sacrifice any minion to fill a 3x3 grid on your ancient one, and every roll or column filled gives you a small effect, and a larger effect by completing the full grid. This was designed for lack-of-options issues during a round but may be used for that as well...
Or i can do a 'discard 3 cards of the same element and do *effect*' as well...or anything that gives me a strategie to that maybe useless card in my hand other than 'keep it from the bad guys'

I will also test the decks mechanic this month (it will take some time as at least 2 decks are necessary for test), and see how that goes, as i do like the pre-planning feeling.
 
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maf man
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No one is an expert on cthulhu theme, its like "vorpal" it can be whatever you want.
I've been trying to find/remember the games I've seen that have that type of discard for better and player interaction and I just can't remember! It's driving me a little crazy! But one game I do remember is Bohnanza and I'm not entirely sure how relateable it is but I remember the main idea was you wanted more of the same kinds so you got rid of or passed on others that were possibly better and some ways gave your opponents the opportunity to get them there was also a way to bury them so you didn't have to use them but didn't give a chance to you opponent ether, if I remember right.

Perhaps you could do something like this:
at the start of your turn you draw one card from the library or graveyard.
discard any number of cards to immediately pick up two from the library.

This can do a few things and has different strategic ramifications:
you can discard one card and get two, yay you just got more cards; But now your opponent can take that card
you can discard more than one slimming down your hand faster and hiding cards that may be good for your opponent in the graveyard so they are out of drawing range (possibly until its shuffled and made into the new library if you decide)

Obviously this idea can be tweeked to fit your game and in the end may be very similar to the "discard 3 for an effect" you mentioned
 
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matheus cohen
Brazil
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After a brief brain storm with my team i figured that, apart from thematic reasons, there wouldn't be that much of a diference in the card distribution options.

Of course i would limit my self in what to put it sometimes if i went for the single deck, but i think it would be the same..

I'm thinking of it like Things you find that aren't helpfull to you, you may sacrifice hoping to fill the grid for a effect...

Now, i have to think about this 'giving up' thing, this idea you gave is actually really nice!

I do think that the different decks would give a bigger feeling to the game, that 'this is actualy more complex than i thought' feeling you have when you delve further into a game...

But maybe a 'lighter' feeling may be what i'm actually looking for
 
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