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Subject: Custom 3D stuff : Feedback welcome. rss

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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Hi guys,

a couple of months ago, I 3D-modelled ships for HF. Here's the pic of the 3D printed parts I've painted :


If my assessement is correct, at this date about 6 people (+me) have gotten a set. Which is a ridiculously small number, but not bad to my standards, especially for an über-niche game such as HF.

Anyway, I had a couple of request for more models.
So I though about modelling a factory & a bernal sphere. That shouldn't take too long and be fun to do.

I already made a quick model of the factory, see the render hereunder. Along with the other ships for scale (the factory is 20mm diameter, the ships are about 30mm high/wide & 50mm long).



I'm a bit concerned about the factory's taking too much board space but it's very small & thin already (20mm diam, 5mm max height).
Regarding the Bernal, it can be bigger because I can make a hole for a flight stand (like the ships), so it won't hide the board.

So what do you think?
Interesting? Or not?
Criticisms & suggestions welcome.

Cheers!
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Mark O'Reilly
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Look fantastic Roolz. How do we order the ships?
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Thanks! I made the ships public on the online printing services I use, you can get them there (check my user profile for links).
Any thoughts regarding the factory (looks, size, etc)? I'm a bit undecided on it, hence my post.
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Manuel Drews
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They look really amazing - great talent you have!

One question:
Where do you get these cool flight stands?
Are they included when you order the models from the website?
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Thanks!
No, printing services only supply printed parts (unpainted). The acrylic flight stands I got from somewhere else, Hawk wargames IIRC (but Litko stands would have worked as well).
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Mark O'Reilly
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Thanks Roolz, I'm no expert , but the factory looks great to me, as does all your ships
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Paul Smith
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Roolz wrote:
Thanks! I made the ships public on the online printing services I use, you can get them there (check my user profile for links).
Any thoughts regarding the factory (looks, size, etc)? I'm a bit undecided on it, hence my post.

20mm is definitely on the large size, even for a poster map. How small could you feasibly make it if you just scaled the model down?
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Jon
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They look amazing! Yet another thing to add to the list to get from shapeways, had my eye on a Bill Kerman model for a while now.
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Will H.
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I really like these!

Two things come to mind.

1. Could you make the pieces modular, so you could snap together a thruster, radiator, generator, etc.? It wouldn't have to match exactly, but it would be really cool if you could "build" your model based on your patents.

2. Kickstarter? I would look at the Xia campaign. Cody's models are beautiful.
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Manuel Drews
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Short last question:

Do you use the small, medium or large ones from Hawk Wargames?
Which base fits your models?

I refer to these sizes here:

http://www.hawkwargames.com/collections/misc-flight-stands-a...

Thanks for a short answer - knowing that makes my order for shapeways complete

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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Thanks for the feedback guys, keep it coming.

SaiSaysPlayGo wrote:
20mm is definitely on the large size, even for a poster map. How small could you feasibly make it if you just scaled the model down?

Scaling down the model brutally would not work, for various reasons (detail level, ergonomy).

But I think I can go down to 15mm diameter while being able to pack a few details, keep a semi-realistic look, and have an acceptable handling.

Do you think 15mm would be OK?

PS: at 10-12mm diameter, better off use the wooden cubes.

gar0u wrote:
I really like these!

Two things come to mind.

1. Could you make the pieces modular, so you could snap together a thruster, radiator, generator, etc.? It wouldn't have to match exactly, but it would be really cool if you could "build" your model based on your patents.

2. Kickstarter? I would look at the Xia campaign. Cody's models are beautiful.


1. This would require a tremendous amount of work and trial-error, for an uncertain result (mostly due to technical limits of the manufacturing process). IMO the best option for modular ships is to use Lego (I've seen some nice pics in the gallery).

2. Im too old for this . Plus, if it made sense, I believe the publisher would have added them as SG in the 3rd ed KS.
Anyway, these ships would require to be completely redesigned to allow injection molding. SLS 3D printing allows to make them in 1 single shot. That's the huge advantage of this tech. In injection, each ship would require many parts (if you want similar shapes).


manueld wrote:
Do you use the small, medium or large ones from Hawk Wargames?
Which base fits your models?

Sorry I can't check your link at the moment (blocked at work).
I think most of the existing flight stands will work on these ships .
I can tell you the following:
- stem must be ~3mm diameter (~1/8")
- stem must be at least 20mm high (then it depends on your taste, I think mine are 50 or 60mm high)
- base 30mm wide has good stability (but I believe 25mm bases would work too. 20mm might topple a bit too easily).

Both Litko and Hawk have suitable stands. There are most probably other manufacturers. I just used Hawk because I had them handy.
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Will H.
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As far as connectivity, I have some ideas.

Upgraded components never seemed to be a design goal of Ares for the 3rd edition.

Sounds like you don't want to Kickstart something like this, but I'm very interested in doing something like that. Any objections if I run with the idea?
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chuck dunn
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a space to show the sights type would be mice but other than that gj
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Manuel Drews
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Quote:
Sorry I can't check your link at the moment (blocked at work).
I think most of the existing flight stands will work on these ships .
I can tell you the following:
- stem must be ~3mm diameter (~1/8")
- stem must be at least 20mm high (then it depends on your taste, I think mine are 50 or 60mm high)
- base 30mm wide has good stability (but I believe 25mm bases would work too. 20mm might topple a bit too easily).

Both Litko and Hawk have suitable stands. There are most probably other manufacturers. I just used Hawk because I had them handy.


So referring to the Hawk ones the Medium Flight Stands fit perfectly:

http://www.hawkwargames.com/products/8x-medium-flight-stands...

Thank you so much for your work!

Looking forward to your new models and will definitely order some,
when my High Frontier 3rd Edition arrives :-)

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David Hoffman
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Roolz wrote:
If my assessement is correct, at this date about 6 people (+me) have gotten a set. Which is a ridiculously small number, but not bad to my standards, especially for an über-niche game such as HF.


For whatever it's worth, I've had the page bookmarked since you originally shared it, I just haven't gotten around to putting in an order. I'm definitely planning on getting some ships before my KS copy arrives.
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Charlie Mote
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I've commented before how great these look and you should definitely continue with outposts, bernals, claim flags and anything else you can think of - HF deserves some serious chroming to compliment the experience.

About using Legos, I'm the one who posted pics of some trials I put together (the ones on the game board) - there's a limited number of piece that don't have the Lego logo stamped obviously on them and they have no surface detail (and at the very minimum could use a quick spray of matte sealer to dull the shine down a bit.)

I've played around with it not so much to be able to try to recreate ships based on the actual cards for the stack, but to give players who need a way to feel they are getting to express themselves a chance to "build" something that doesn't impact game play (as opposed to building the actual rocker stacks.) Unfortunately I haven't been able to think of a way to add detail to individual pieces without serious hand-labor.

If someone can figure out a way to combine some detail like your designs with the modularity, durability and ease-of-use of Lego, for rocker-minis I'd be all over it!
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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gar0u wrote:
Sounds like you don't want to Kickstart something like this, but I'm very interested in doing something like that. Any objections if I run with the idea?

Absolutely not! Looking forward to see that!

chuckdunn wrote:
a space to show the sights type would be mice but other than that gj

I don't understand what you're suggesting blush(I'm not a native english speaker). Could you please elaborate?

manueld wrote:
So referring to the Hawk ones the Medium Flight Stands fit perfectly:

It's these ones indeed!
I just checked Litko's page, they have 1" hex stands that should do the job fine too.

ohbalto wrote:
I'm definitely planning on getting some ships before my KS copy arrives.

If you do, any feedback on the "real" parts is welcome.

CharlieMote wrote:
I've commented before how great these look and you should definitely continue with outposts, bernals, claim flags and anything else you can think of - HF deserves some serious chroming to compliment the experience.

In the coming weeks I'll see if I can model a decent 15mm factory & a bernal.
Regarding the Bernal I think I have a good enough idea of the model. It will be smaller than the ships. I'll try to stay in a 20-25mm footprint and a 30-40mm height).
Regarding the Ouposts I can give it a try. They'll need to have +/- the same footprint as the factories (15mm) while being easy to differentiate (that's the hardest part).
Claim flags: Hadn't thought about them but I just had an interesting model idea. Will keep you posted.

CharlieMote wrote:
About using Legos, I'm the one who posted pics of some trials I put together [...]
If someone can figure out a way to combine some detail like your designs with the modularity, durability and ease-of-use of Lego, for rocker-minis I'd be all over it!

Your Lego ships look great.
The main technical challenge is to design a reliable, durable, and compact locking/unlocking system compatible with additive manufacturing specs & limitations (be it SLS nylon tolerances or SLA resin brittleness)... The lego locking system is neat but the bricks are in injection-molded ABS. I'm afraid that "as is" it would not work correctly in 3D printing (but maybe I'm wrong).
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Bart Rachemoss
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Roolz wrote:
The main technical challenge is to design a reliable, durable, and compact locking/unlocking system compatible with additive manufacturing specs & limitations (be it SLS nylon tolerances or SLA resin brittleness)... The lego locking system is neat but the bricks are in injection-molded ABS. I'm afraid that "as is" it would not work correctly in 3D printing (but maybe I'm wrong).

What about using little magnets to hold the pieces together?

Magnetic flight stands are already available.
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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BitJam wrote:
What about using little magnets to hold the pieces together?

Magnetic flight stands are already available.

Yes that's a good option. But that requires extra components, and even the smallest magnets take some volume (my ships have really small sections).
Anyway the "modular" ships are not on my to-do-list, but Will H (gar0u) seems to be taking a look at this!
 
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I bought some of these models. They're really well done. I hope you do the bernal as well. I like the design of the factory, but I'm not sure how practical it would be especially if you need to stack a space colony on top of it unless the factory was designed to accommodate a stacked space colony. As mentioned outposts and claim flags could be modeled
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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Thanks!

Yep, the Bernal is on my to-do-list.

It should be possible to design the factory & colony so that you can stack a colony over a factory (it will look less sexy on the board, once stacked, though. But you'll always have the option not to stack them on the board). Thanks for the idea, I'll try to keep this in mind & make it work.

Regarding outposts, I need to think about it. I have no clear idea of how to model an outpost that would be different enough from a colony & a factory (suggestions welcome).

Regarding claim flags I have a nice model idea. I'll let you guys know if I can turn my idea into decent model.
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Alex Mauer
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Roolz wrote:
It should be possible to design the factory & colony so that you can stack a colony over a factory

Regarding outposts, I need to think about it. I have no clear idea of how to model an outpost that would be different enough from a colony & a factory (suggestions welcome).


My suggestion would be:

Make space colonies round to reflect the cylinder of the standard game. Probably a geodesic dome. Wouldn't have to be transparent of course, Something that looks like http://spaceandperspective.com/2012/08/30/geodesic-dome/ should do the job. Maybe have a tab sticking out from the edge that you could set the standard factory cube on though.

Make outposts square, something like the cities in https://boardgamegeek.com/image/873917/sid-meiers-civilizati... Obviously those are too big, but the general concept of "flat square with greebles" should fit. (Actually, thinking about it this might be better to replace claims discs instead of outposts -- just leave a flat square space to set a factory cube in)
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Bart Rachemoss
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I don't know if this is of interest to you but One Small Step is planning to use plastic rings for outposts and wooden hemispheres for colonies in the 3rd edition:
Quote:
35 wooden colony hemispheres, 7 in each green, purple, white, red, and orange
20 plastic outpost rings, 4 in each green, purple, white, red, and orange

I think some people may have suggested using rings for outposts to avoid obscuring information on the board.
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Will H.
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I think the 3rd edition is using rings for outposts.
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Alright, so I had some time yesterday a worked on the Bernal, factory, and colony. Took a few hours, but it was quicker than expected.

Bernal looks huge but it's not (20mm footprint, 40mm high). It's the factory and colony that are small (15mm diameter).
The Bernal can be put on the board "as is" or installed on a flight base.
There's a hole under the colony that allows to put it on top of the factory.

Regarding the outpost, I also came to the conclusion that a simple ring (or a kind of tiny beer coaster) might be the best option.
I figured I could model something with a recess to fit the colonies/factories. That won't use too much space.

I'll start creating preliminary assemblies with all these things, that will allow to assess the cost. We'll see.
If I'm correct I'd need (for the 2nd Ed.):
5 Bernals (or 1 in 5 colours)
10 factories (or 2 in 5 colours)
15 colonies (or 3 in 5 colours)
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