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Subject: Dungeon Draw - Micro PYL card game rss

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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Moving forward, I think I will add trap powers for all 6 monsters.

So, I am looking for ideas for any 3 dungeon monsters and their powers.

Ideas proposed so far:

Unknown Monster - If Trap, shuffle the Trap back into the deck.
Unknown Monster - If Trap, draw another card.
Golem - If Trap, discard the Shield in the dungeon.
Elemental - If Trap, this monster acts as a Torch. This is a positive Trap power?!
Goblin - If Trap, take a coin from your overall score. Similar but different than Ooze.
Dancing Sword - If Trap, guess a monster. If you're right, you bust!

Would love to hear your input!
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Rob Harper
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Sounds good. I like that one of the powers is actually positive.

Not sure what the dancing sword does from that wording.

It occurred to me that it might be cool to be able to disarm the trap. Maybe if you have the shield, you could choose to throw it into the trap, discarding both the shield and the trap. Then you continue or stop as usual.
 
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
The dancing sword is an animated weapon monster and is the negative version of the sword. You have to guess the next monster. if you guess right (which you hope you don't) you bust.

That could be cool but how would you fit the shield's power text on the card? Would it be dual purpose now with saving busting coins?

I haven't revealed my Hero optional cards yet but one of them disregards monster powers, basically nullifying the Trap.
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Rob Harper
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
JewellGames wrote:
The dancing sword is an animated weapon monster and is the negative version of the sword. You have to guess the next monster. if you guess right (which you hope you don't) you bust.
Sounds a nice idea, but I'd need to see it in play. I assume you can't choose a monster that has already appeared?

Quote:
That could be cool but how would you fit the shield's power text on the card? Would it be dual purpose now with saving busting coins?
That was what I was thinking, which would give a nice choice: do I protect coins or disarm a trap? Plus it would be better if, as we saw a couple of times, the shield turns up before any coins. The shield isn't a perfect fit for this use though, and I have to admit that adding more text to the card would be very much suboptimal.

Quote:
I haven't revealed my Hero optional cards yet but one of them disregards monster powers, basically nullifying the Trap.
That sounds like fun.
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Ghislain LEVEQUE
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
It would be nice to have text-less cards for easy translation or even better, cards with icons instead of text for non-readers. What do you think ?
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
I can make a textless version for sure.

How would I convey each power with symbols?
 
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Ghislain LEVEQUE
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
I've started to think about it. If we assume there is a full description of each power in the rule book, the icons just have to be a remainder.

For example, for the torch, a card icon with an eye. For sword, some monsters icons with a question in between, a green arrow and a crossed monster to show that if you guess right, the monster is ignored.

For chest and key, the same : "CHEST + KEY = 2COINS" and for shield : Some coins, the shield and some coins again. The coins at the left of the shield are underlined with a green cross, that shows that the coins "before" the shield are always gathered.
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Rob Harper
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
JewellGames wrote:
How would I convey each power with symbols?
Daniel Solis has been doing a lot of work on this. His Patreon is based on producing a huge library of icons for this sort of thing, and his Trickster games are a good example of using the approach. You can also find discussion on icons and stuff on his blog.
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Niklas Hook
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
When you need a break from your game design laugh
http://www.playkeepout.com/

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Robin Armstrong
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Quick thought on the item to disarm a Trap: maybe change the Key to Lockpicks, so that it can either open a Chest or disarm a Trap. Makes for easier text than the Shield and makes more thematic sense, I think.
 
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}

I like that idea.

Would everyone be ok with a keeping the Key as the item for both functions or changing it to lockpick? Key is more universally iconic to opening objects but lockpicks are more for thieves/rogues/and disarming. But keys could be used to disarm or unlock Traps too.

Also would it be a passive for both, or an either/or power?

Examples:

Opens the Chest and disarms the Trap.

Either open the Chest or disarm the Trap. The Key won't have to be used right away and the rules will note to lay the Key on the card its used on.

Edit: added a poll.
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Poll
The Key should...
Stay as it is; only opens the Chest.
Change to be able to open the Chest AND disarm the Trap.
Change to be able to open the Chest OR disarm the Trap.
Become a lockpick tool and change to be able to open the Chest AND disarm the Trap.
Become a lockpick tool and change to be able to open the Chest OR disarm the Trap.
      7 answers
Poll created by JewellGames
 
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
I tweaked the Chest and Trap (art) to fit with the Key, if I go forward with it. Does this fit or should I keep the original art?

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Rob Harper
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
I like the subtle keyhole in that version of the trap. Nice detail.

And the dual-purpose key sounds good to me.
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Poll
Choose up to 6 monster trap powers you like or post new ideas below! I will probably change some of the monsters to match the final chosen powers.

If drawn by the Trap,
this monster counts as 2 monsters!
you bust!
discard a coin in the dungeon.
discard all coins in the dungeon. Harsh
discard the Key in the dungeon.
discard the Shield in the dungeon.
discard all items in the dungeon.
discard the next item drawn. This is the next item (regardless of number of draws).
discard the next card. Could be a good or bad thing.
draw another card.
look at the bottom card of the deck. If it's a monster, draw it. Summoner type power.
shuffle the Trap back into the deck.
shuffle this monster back into the deck. If you draw it again, you bust! Semi-positive power. Probably reserved for the Boss monster.
you may discard a coin in the dungeon to discard this monster. Semi-positive power. Acts as a bribe.
and there are 9 or more cards in the dungeon, you bust! Boss type power.
Other - I will post my idea(s) below.
      12 answers
Poll created by JewellGames


Keep in mind that these can be tweaked or altered and if any new great ideas come up those will be considered. For example, last power could be changed to 5/6/7/8 or more cards to make it more threatening.
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Ghislain LEVEQUE
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Keep in mind that this is a children's game, the powers should not be too complex
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
courtjus wrote:
Keep in mind that this is a children's game, the powers should not be too complex
On that note, I am wondering if i should drop this from contest since it is getting more complex. Perhaps its better suited for the 18 card contest.

That way I'll just focus on Raindrops for this children contest. Hmmm...
 
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Eric Miller
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Well... maybe 2 versions? An "older" 18-card game and much simpler kid's game?

Maybe for the kid's game remove the Trap, Key, Chest and Torch cards. Add a Bow & Arrow card. Add one more Monster. Add an "I go home" card. Add Coins up to 18 cards. (3 "weapons", 7 monsters, 7 coins, 1 "I go Home" card)

The player would hold the "I go home" card. The other 17 are shuffled. One is turned over at a time. Same basic idea- get 3 monsters, you get scared and go home. The player gets to keep only 1 of the coins they find- they dropped the rest. Next player.

If they play the "I go home" card, they keep all the coins they find. And then their turn is over. Why have a card for this? Simple- it clearly ends their turn.

The sword, shield and bow & arrow each eliminate the nearest monster, or next monster. So if the Spider comes up, then the shield is drawn, both cards are then discarded. Play goes on with the next card.

If it goes well, they could move up to the more complex game.

Too simple?
 
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
govmiller wrote:
Well... maybe 2 versions? An "older" 18-card game and much simpler kid's game?

Maybe for the kid's game remove the Trap, Key, Chest and Torch cards. Add a Bow & Arrow card. Add one more Monster. Add an "I go home" card. Add Coins up to 18 cards. (3 "weapons", 7 monsters, 7 coins, 1 "I go Home" card)

The player would hold the "I go home" card. The other 17 are shuffled. One is turned over at a time. Same basic idea- get 3 monsters, you get scared and go home. The player gets to keep only 1 of the coins they find- they dropped the rest. Next player.

If they play the "I go home" card, they keep all the coins they find. And then their turn is over. Why have a card for this? Simple- it clearly ends their turn.

The sword, shield and bow & arrow each eliminate the nearest monster, or next monster. So if the Spider comes up, then the shield is drawn, both cards are then discarded. Play goes on with the next card.

If it goes well, they could move up to the more complex game.

Too simple?
That's an option, but I am already kind of making a junior version and advanced version for Raindrops so I may not have time to make two versions for this game too. I will have to see as this develops.

I mean it should be fairly easy to convert once the complex game is finished but then the focus isnt really on the children's version and hence why I am thinking of dropping this from the contest.
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Chris Hansen
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
I hope it works out. I think the game sounds awesome and would love to have it in the contest. But if the design is working out to to be better suited for older kids, then do what you think is best. I'll keep following the game either way.
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Rob Harper
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
chansen2794 wrote:
I hope it works out. I think the game sounds awesome and would love to have it in the contest. But if the design is working out to to be better suited for older kids, then do what you think is best. I'll keep following the game either way.
What Chris said.
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
chansen2794 wrote:
I hope it works out. I think the game sounds awesome and would love to have it in the contest. But if the design is working out to to be better suited for older kids, then do what you think is best. I'll keep following the game either way.
Thanks. I will monitor it as well and make a determination sometime soon.

In the meantime, I told myself when I have at least 12 answers that I will begin to playtest the top powers. So, I am waiting on at least 3 more answers. I have been testing and working out the obvious choices already but now I will need to determine which monster suits each power.
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
1) While I wait for a few more answers for monster trap powers I am playing around with the card design to look more dungeon-esque. The different backgrounds went away, but each type would get a different border.

2) And, I am also considering displaying each card type: treasure/item/monster.

3) Also, I think instead of writing out, "If drawn by the Trap" for every monster trap power I will just use, "Trap:".

Thoughts?



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Corry Damey
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
JewellGames wrote:
1) While I wait for a few more answers for monster trap powers I am playing around with the card design to look more dungeon-esque. The different backgrounds went away, but each type would get a different border.
I really like the dungeon-esque brick and mortar. Definitely a little more immersive than the last background (which was still very nice, but a little soft). My only suggestion would be to differentiate the colors a little more. The "Treasure" gold color is nice and could stand to be brightened a little more. But the "Monster" brown color and "Item" dark gray are really close in hue and hard to distinguish from one another. Perhaps "Monster" cards could be black and "Items" could be the same gray as the card backs?

JewellGames wrote:
2) And, I am also considering displaying each card type: treasure/item/monster.
Awesome! I would not make them different colors, though. Legibility is king and perhaps allowing your brick background colors help enforce the card type would be nice and subtle, but not overly in-your-face. Also, the colored text makes "Treasure" is a little hard to read.

JewellGames wrote:
3) Also, I think instead of writing out, "If drawn by the Trap" for every monster trap power I will just use, "Trap:".
I think this is a great! I've been learning the importance in keeping terminology the same throughout a game and cutting down the thinking that a player has to do to understand simple mechanics.

This looks like a great little filler game. And pretty, too. I hope you do well in the contest!
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Gregg Jewell
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Re: [WIP - New Poll 09/17/15] Dungeon Draw (18 card PYL game) {2015 Children's Game PnP Design Contest}
Here is a revision.

The card types are all the same subtle grey.

Treasure has a gold border, monsters have a red border (matches trap color), and items have a dark grey border (since the items themselves are different colors).

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