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Subject: At a crossroads rss

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A.J. Porfirio
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Thompsons Station
Tennessee
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I am in the position of having played once solo, and based on that experience, I am really struggling to get the motivation to get it back out and play again. I was playing solo for enjoyment but also to play the next night with my friends. That never happened though. What a chore it was to learn the rules from the rulebook which is frankly, in my opinion, a bit of a disaster. And I can't stand the design tactic of including hundreds of tiny icons throughout the rulebook AND on the cards. Worst of all, I did not feel the theme come through really at all. Turns felt clunky and really long. When it was all said and done, I just didn't feel I could adequately teach the game to my friends. Ughhh it was so frustrating, I was so excited about this game.

So now I am at a crossroads. Cut my losses and Sell/Trade it while the value is high or go watch a playtrhough video and give it another shot.

I think I owe it to trying again, but every time I think about the time investment to do so, I cringe.

But if it is always just going to be more puzzle and less theme then I would probably just be wasting my time giving it another go.

Anyone want to convince me one way or the other?
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Jonathan Meltzer
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Dover
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I'll take a shot at it. First, you should really play all of the heroes to see if there is one that you click with.

Also, print out the round summary in the Files section. You can use JUST that file for just about all of the rules, and it contains all of the errata as well. I am not sure what to do about the Quest markers (A,B,C,D) but I do not think they are used for the Into The Wilds scenario anyway.

Keep playing Into the Wilds until you have that one down.

My wife and I have played twice, and while both plays were LONG they were enjoyable and we want to get the game out again this weekend. If not for the Round Summary file, though, I would likely be in the same boat as you.

Does that help?
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Richard A. Edwards
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Lacey
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vanrydergames wrote:
I think I owe it to trying again, but every time I think about the time investment to do so, I cringe.

But if it is always just going to be more puzzle and less theme then I would probably just be wasting my time giving it another go.

Anyone want to convince me one way or the other?


There are too many games and too little time to play games you don't enjoy.

You don't "owe" the game anything. Do whatever works best for you.

I've had the same thoughts about thus game. I've played it solo and 2 player. I really looked forward to getting it. I didn't find the rules too bad.

But, the game play is simply too mechanical and too devoid of thematic feel for me to enjoy it. It's really about finding a hero whose card mechanics fit your play style and then maximizing card purchases and combo play. It's more of a puzzle game than I like.

Of course there are players who will love this sort of game too.

Ultimately, your choice is your own and only you know what you like.

Whatever you decide, enjoy!
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David Hammel
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vanrydergames wrote:
I am in the position of having played once solo, and based on that experience, I am really struggling to get the motivation to get it back out and play again.


Underlining added for emphasis. I think nearly any game deserves more than one playthrough. Some games just have a higher learning curve.
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Joshua Nash
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One thing I can add is that it started feeling less clunky (good term) and much smoother as I internalized the rules. When I got to the point where I was looking up rules much less often, I found it more enjoyable.
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X. Nostradunwhich
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JPN38 wrote:
One thing I can add is that it started feeling less clunky (good term) and much smoother as I internalized the rules. When I got to the point where I was looking up rules much less often, I found it more enjoyable.

That is true of most games
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Mike Clarke
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It's definitely a good game worth learning. It's better as a multiplayer than a solo experience though because the characters tend to riff off each other.

Once you've internalized the rules, it's actually a blast - one of the, if not the most, thematic card games I've ever played. It's far from mechanical.

My best advice is take the time to learn your character's entire deck including Advanced Feats. Buy these cards regularly. If you don't know which to get, get a cheap one. Every card adds life, but many will also add crucial worth to your hero.

Without them, and in particular without the right ones, he/she's a cripple.

How you play them is key to the game. They're meant to be re-used. In order to use them properly you need to understand the differences between the three actions, Regular, Fast and Reflex.

Fast actions do NOT stack. Each must be completed as its own separate entity, but you can do as many as you like. Reflex actions can be used as often as you'd like AT ANY TIME which means even when it's not your turn(except when drawing up your hand) but only apply once to one other card or situation. Regular actions can only be used once, but some game effects might break that rule. Fengray's Cleave and Mighty Strike let him use two Regular Actions.

Do not keep playing Into the Wilds. That scenario is harder than you think. Try out a full blown adventure.

Yes download gbeason's excellent game summary in the Files section. It's a thing of beauty.

If you run out of time, ignore and keep playing. The timer is really only there for players who have mastered the game. You'll still want to use it for its on-track effects, however.

Yes the game has a learning curve because the rulebook is a little obtuse and because it's a style of play we're not used to, but I can tell you there is light at the end of the tunnel and it's well worth the effort.

I mean, how hard can it be, it's a game!! And it's a fun game.
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Joshua Nash
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Nostradunwhich wrote:
JPN38 wrote:
One thing I can add is that it started feeling less clunky (good term) and much smoother as I internalized the rules. When I got to the point where I was looking up rules much less often, I found it more enjoyable.

That is true of most games


Not at all. There are numerous games (check my previously owned list) that actually sour as I get to know the mechanics. Once the 'new' wears off, there will be many games that you just don't like.
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Victor L
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I agree that you don't owe a game anything: you should play it because you enjoy it. But I do think that this is an enjoyable game, and it is more so once you get internalize the rules, which are really not that complicated, despite the rule book's making them seem that way. As mikecl has said, you should definitely print out gbeason's summary. I would use it to learn the rules, not just as a reference sheet. I would also print out the official FAQ from NSKN's website.

One thing that is kinda annoying (once you get past the rule book) is that there are a number of errors on the cards (and even more in the rule book and quest guides, and they aren't all on gbeason's summary, unless he's updated it recently. That said, there aren't that many errors: more than I would prefer, and despite some stalwart defenders, I would say that there are more than I think there should be taking into account the complexity of the game. But not so many that it makes the game unplayable.

I agree with others that if you want to give the game another chance (and I recommend you do), you may want to try a different quest. I've only played Into the Wilds and Abomination so far, and I like Abomination better. Time is much tighter in Into the Wilds, and because only Wildlands are in play, you get a lot less variety.

One thing I'm not sure about for you is whether the theme will come through. I think it's a very puzzle-y game, especially if you are playing a solo Hero. I've played maybe a dozen or so games, almost all with a single Hero, but I agree that the game is not at its best this way: many of the Heroes' cool abilities only become really cool when there are other Heroes to help. For example, Ardenai (the archer) gets +1 damage to attacks at Range 2, but if you are the only Hero, you're going to want to concentrate on the Enemies at Range 1. Arani is a healer who can't fight that well, especially at the beginning, almost all the other Heroes struggle to keep enough cards in their deck and hand, and she can help wonders with that. But even with a team of Heroes, I think it's still a puzzle-y game. I like that about it: quite cerebral.

That said, it does have strong thematic elements, and they come through better when you already know the rules.

In short, if you were excited about the game, then I recommend you give it another shot, after you print out and read gbeason's summary sheet. I found Ardenai to be the easiest Hero to play, so you might start with him.
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