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Subject: Help! ETF deck, hard time getting it down to 49 cards rss

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Ivan Barker
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Hi guys,

I've been working on this deck for a while, working on different schemes. My original deck was posted here: [Deck] HB Engineering The Future Brain Damage Deck - Looking for comments

Since then I've gotten many more data packs and my options have grown!

Here's my new deck
ETF Click Click Brain

Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core Set)

Agenda (10)
2x False Lead (A Study in Static)
2x Priority Requisition (Core Set)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
3x Sentinel Defense Program (Creation and Control)

Asset (8)
2x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control)
2x Eve Campaign (Humanity's Shadow)
2x Project Junebug (Core Set) ••
2x Snare! (Core Set) ••••

Upgrade (2)
2x Strongbox (Fear and Loathing)

Operation (15)
3x Bioroid Efficiency Research (Creation and Control)
2x Closed Accounts (Core Set) ••
3x Enhanced Login Protocol (The Spaces Between)
2x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Successful Demonstration (Creation and Control)

Barrier (8)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
2x Heimdall 2.0 (Creation and Control)
1x Wotan (Second Thoughts)
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing) ••

Code Gate (5)
3x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Hourglass (A Study in Static)

Sentry (3)
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
1x Janus 1.0 (What Lies Ahead)

Other (5)
3x Howler (Creation and Control)
2x Whirlpool (Humanity's Shadow) ••••
14 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 24 and 25)
56 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Spaces Between

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

Now some things about this. Originally I wanted to flatline the runner purely through Brain damage, but I realized that it was harder than I originally thought. This deck still has that objective, but it's secondary. This deck I'm hoping will tax the runner. I'm hoping it will make the runner waste all of their clicks trying to get into servers, only to be surprised by some ice they can't get through, or a trap, and damage is done.

I've added some ice that takes away clicks. And ELP to annoy by draining clicks. And then Strongbox to make so agendas can't be stolen without more clicks.

But at the same time in hoping that the runner will be forced to click through my ice. For that I added closed accounts, to drain their credits, so they can't break the ice (tag from snare or ichi). Also a bit of program trashing.

I've added a bunch of traps. I feel that net damage will work really well in this deck, especially if some Brain damage has been done, and flatlining is a threat.

Howler and whirlpool are there to get big ice on the table and make so the runner has to encounter it. The idea is to use BER to rez originally, but trash and put the ice in the archives once derezzed. And then pull it back out of archives with Howler, forcing an encounter with whirlpool.

Vitruvius is in there because I'm not using Jackson. But I figure between Vitruvius and Howler, it should be enough recursion.

False lead pulls this all together to work with Strongbox, or ice that the runner thought they could click through.

NAPD contact might be an idea to add, to tax them again...

Problem is that I'm way over the 49 card limit. Do all of my plans sound OK? Are there better cards I could be using? What should I trim out to get to 49?

I feel that I could use more ice, since 5 of mine are one use traps...
 
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Andrew Brown
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you can start by cutting your ICE down. 23 is quite a lot. i'd start with Whirlpool and Howler. they aren't very good tbh.

also, i'm not sure what False Lead is doing. using it and click-through ICE and Strongbox aren't really going to protect your agendas that much tbh, especially since you're losing points in the process. False Lead is great for securing kills, which your deck isn't really doing.
they could be a 2/3 instead and save a card slot

the only way you have to tag the opponent is Snare!, so Closed Accounts isn't going to get much mileage. even if you have a lot of criminals going tag me, two is too much.
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Ivan Barker
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dr00 wrote:
you can start by cutting your ICE down. 23 is quite a lot. i'd start with Whirlpool and Howler. they aren't very good tbh.

also, i'm not sure what False Lead is doing. using it and click-through ICE and Strongbox aren't really going to protect your agendas that much tbh, especially since you're losing points in the process. False Lead is great for securing kills, which your deck isn't really doing.
they could be a 2/3 instead and save a card slot

the only way you have to tag the opponent is Snare!, so Closed Accounts isn't going to get much mileage. even if you have a lot of criminals going tag me, two is too much.


It is 21 ice I believe. However, I wasn't too sure if I should count the trap ice into the counts. Without the traps it's only 16 ice. I think you are underestimating howler in this deck. At a rez cost of 1, I could get a surprise Janus or Wotan (whichever I think would be better based on their breakers, and both from archives, freeing up my hq for other things) for a cost of 1. Not only that, it counts as an install during the runners turn and gives me 1 credit from firing off my ETF ability. Even if I don't have whirlpool in place to force an encounter, it could stop the runner dead in their tracks, causing them to jack out, which is bad if each run is worth 2 clicks due to ELP.

False lead I feel is pretty golden here. 2 clicks to run due to ELP, and then pop false lead, and the runners entire turn is gone. Perfect mid run, or after hitting a howler Janus. Strongbox makes so the runner has to spend a click to get an agenda, well they no longer have a click to spend after popping false lead. Sure they could trash Strongbox, but the card says they still have to spend the click when they trash it. Score the agenda next turn, and you're good. If it was vitruvius then perhaps you could get it back from archives.

Tags come from snare and possibly Ichi. I agree, it's not super reliable.
 
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Lorenzo Banci
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Ok i will try to help you. (if i understood correctly you only have cards up to the space between so i will not use any cards after that data)

First of all you have to change Agendas, you just need to play NAPD and Accelerated Beta Test, they are so good. NAPD is usually perfect to install in your score server when the runner is poor, and give you an easy scoring window.
So on the agenda part i will go like this:

3 Napd
3 ABT
1 Priority Req
1 Chronos Project
2 Project Vitruvius

20 PT
Now get down to 49 Cards

I see you like Traps, i totally get your point but you're using 10 out of 15 INF for TRAPS, when you could easily get some awesome upgrade like Caprice and your scoring server will be much harder to pass.
If you like Snare so much i will try keep it in there, but Junebug has to go and Whirlpool too.

-2 Junebug
-2 Whirlpool
-2 Closed Accounts (Trust me, very few runner will pass the turn tagged, and we are gaining 8 INF, that's HUGE)
How to replace that 8 INF.

+2 Caprice

ICE Part:

You're HB. If there's something HB doesn't need to do is spending influence in ICE, they have the best ice so far, so:

-2 Wraparound (You have ELI, you don't really need 2 INF for a Wraparound)

Howler is pretty MEH, the runner will just jack out after the Janus, then you will have to Rez Janus and this is going to lose you lot of Tempo and lots of Money. And having a Whirpool+Howler+Janus is not that easy to pull off, i mean it's a nice Idea but very hard, don't forget you are going to cut down to 49 Cards, everything that's need other cards to work will be less likely to happen
So:
-3 Howler
-1 Janus
-1 Wotan
-1 Hourglass (Not to bad not too good, 1 it's fine if you like it)
-1 Enigma (Best early ICE, but 3 are too much)

Eli and Ichi are good, you can't really go wrong with them.
Heimdall is cool too, taxing as **** and a nice compromise between STR Subs and Cost.
Some ice you should consider:

Toolbooth
Viktor
Lotus Field (Anti Sucker-Parasite, on of the best ice ever imho)

Then you don't have any more viable options since your card pool is limited, i mean a Turing would be perfect here but nvm, so i tried fix with some neutral ETR/Taxing Ice (I will post the full deck list below)

ASSET and OPERATION Part:

Some few changes i would do here.

Keep the Cerebral Ovw it's cool and can be Game most of the time if you play it correctly

ELP: very very strong, make the runner lose a click it's something you like to do and i'm gonna keep it in there.

Succ. Demo.: I don't like this card very much, it's ofte a dead draw cause you don't have full control on when you can play it, but we can stick with 1.

BER it's weird, it's not that bad, it cost 3 tho which is not that good i would suggest you to try play without it and judge it by yourself, at the time let's stick with 1 of it.

EVE Campaign, get Adonis it's just better
Strongbox. Caprice and ASH over it, 100% better

So i'm done.
I'm afraid that what i'v done kinda screwed the idea behind your original Deck. I tried to keep some traps in it, because it looks like you love them, but it was hard to cut down to 49 without changing it.
If that's not the idea you have and you don't like the changes i made i feel sorry, i did my best.
Basically this version is less focused on Flatline the runner and more focused on Taxing him to get in your remote, which can be a Cerebral Ovrw and end the game (or a snare) so the tricky part is still there.

P.S: As you noticed my english is bad, i tried my best. Sorry for any mistake.

This is the list i made, hope you like it:

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/androidnetrunner/android...

Enjoy

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Ivan Barker
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Hi Lorenzo,

You are amazing. Thank you so much for spending the time to go through this deck with a fine toothed comb!

Over the past 2 days I've been revising this deck. And you know what? I arrived at many of the same conclusions you did.

Here is my current revision:

HB ETF: Click Click Bang Brain

Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core Set)

Agenda (10)
2x False Lead (A Study in Static)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
2x Priority Requisition (Core Set)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)

Asset (6)
2x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
2x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control)
2x Snare! (Core Set) ••••

Upgrade (2)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead)

Operation (13)
1x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Enhanced Login Protocol (The Spaces Between)
2x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Oversight AI (A Study in Static) ••••
2x Successful Demonstration (Creation and Control)

Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
1x Heimdall 2.0 (Creation and Control)
1x Wotan (Second Thoughts)

Code Gate (6)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Hourglass (A Study in Static)
2x Lotus Field (Upstalk) ••

Sentry (5)
2x Gemini (All That Remains) ••••
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
1x Janus 1.0 (What Lies Ahead)

Other (2)
2x Howler (Creation and Control)
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


I did end up putting NAPD Contract in, because it taxes, and prevents stealing. Which is fantastic. Sentinel Defense Program just wouldn't cut it if I wasn't scoring brain damage. I considered ABT, but without the Jackson recursion, I didn't want to chance an agenda ending up in Archives unless I wanted it there.

I subbed in Adonis campaign, after weighing between Eve, Adonis and Private Contracts.

I got rid of the Junebug traps. I considered keeping it and getting rid of Cerebral Overwriter, but I decided that Overwriter is a bit more permanent. Snare is very important to me and probably one of my favourite cards in the game. I love keeping it in hand, or watching the runner pull it from R&D. And the tag is just icing on the cake.

Now I did change up a bunch of the ICE. I got rid of whirlpool, and dropped Howler to 2. I am keeping Howler, but I do have a plan for it. I will see how this goes, and I could cut it later after a couple of plays. But it's to pull out the big ICE, and get the runner to jackout. I think when a run costs 2 clicks with ELP, this will be very costly.

I dropped Wraparound. I think it's a solid card, but I have Eli, so it's ok. I decided to grab a low cost and low inf Sentry instead (Gemini). I'm not too sure how this one will be, but it looks very annoying for the runner (costly to break) since it will ding them for random cards. And won't be a parasite target.

I put in Lotus Field on your recommendation. I think this will work well. The friend I usually play with plays Anarch, and Lotus Field will stop him in his tracks.

I do like Janus, a lot. I think it is very taxing. And since it has so many subroutines, with Oversight AI, it's a very costly target to hit (for them). Wotan is similar.

As for operations I swapped 3 BER for 2 Oversight AI. Oversight AI in my mind is more versatile, and cheaper. The idea here is interaction with Howler. Let's say I have my remote server. I put Howler in first, and then Janus. I rez Janus with Oversight (cost 1c to install + 1c to rez but potentially got 1 or 2c back from identity). The runner sees Oversight on it and thinks, "oh yeah if I break this then it's trashed". So he spends a bunch of money and clicks to trash it and it's annoying. So Janus ends up in Archives. The runner continues the run, hits Howler. I'd rez Howler (1c) and put Janus back in play. Now the cool thing here is that I install Janus, which gives me another 1c from my ETF identity (so this entire thing only costed me 1c... if my math is right). The runner will likely jack out there. Which is fine, since each run will cost 2 clicks with ELP. Rez Janus next turn with the other Oversight, or trash and install some cheaper ice, or score a Priority Requisition that turn and rez it for free. Or play a Successful Demonstration (or 2) and almost have enough to rez it outright. Either way, I think it'll be very annoying for the runner.

I dropped Closed Accounts to 1. The idea here is that Snare and Ichi both give tags. Yes, most runners will clear the tags right away, but False Lead can help this. Forfeit a False Lead and the runner no longer has clicks to clear the tags. Next turn, clear their money as well. I think it's a good combo, but a bit unreliable, and that's why I dropped it to 1.

I took your advice and replaced Strongbox with Ash. I did some unscientific mental math, and Ash looked to be much more costly to get through. More costly to trash, and cheaper to rez.

Let me know what you think of the new list.
 
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Lorenzo Banci
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This looks better!

So you are going to stick with the Howler-Janus combo, it's fine.
I'm still worried about False Lead, you have to play it and tell me how it feel so keep it for now.
If you're not going to play Jackson i agree that ABT it's not your cup of tea
Oversight AI it's way better than BER, i think it's a nice choice.

I tried Hourglass and i didn't like it that much, it's expansive and it's not worth the price, and considering the current meta it cost 1 Sucker Counter + Yog to get throu which is a super cheap option for the runner.

I'm afraid to tell you that Gemini won't work either, it costs 3 which is fine, 5 STR it's good, worst part is the trace 2... it's a bit meh if the runner have 1 or more Links it's going to be more expensive for you than for him, don't forget you paid it 3 and in the best scenario you are going to do 2 Net without even ETR plus it's costing you 4 INF.

Have you consider Tollboth? It's expensive i know but after you rez it the runner will be less likely to Run into it again, and since you are Taxing him clicks he will need to build a strong ECO before he can run a Tollboth again.

Another Ice that comes to mind is Pop-Up Window, always cool to get money as Corp and it can do a hell of a job in a server with other Taxing Ices

Closed Accounts is still useless to me, if you want to drain runner Money you have to do it with Ice don't forget that all you have for Tags are 2 SNARE. Not to mention that we are going to get +1 INF Which can be used on Pop Up.

You should consider this changes:

-2 Hourglass
-2 Gemini (4Inf)
-1 Closed Accounts(1Inf)

+1 Tollboth (2Inf)
+2 Pop Up Window(2Inf)
+1 Viktor


And something that cost 1 INF which is going to be good in this one like PUP or the third Pop-Up Window

Consider to drop 1 Succ Demo and get another Green Level or a Blue Level they are more reliable and you're going to Push your eco advance even more

My 2 Cents, have a nice day
 
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Ivan Barker
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Thanks for popping in again! Your 2 cents are worth a lot.

I took your advice and I:

-2 Gemini
-2 Hourglass

+2 Pop-up Window (I've been debating this for a while, plus I have some cool alternate art version of this card)

+2 Wraparound (I know you thought I should cut this, but I remembered why I added this in, it is AI defense)

I'll be testing this out on Thursday, looking forward to seeing how it does!
 
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Lorenzo Banci
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So, any news? How the deck worked?
 
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Ivan Barker
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Hi Lorenzo,

Thanks for checking in!

The deck did not perform very well versus my friends Eddie Kim deck. He won by a landslide.

I screwed up by rezzing 2 Eli's on the first turn and not having an econ card in hand. I was poor after that. I then became agenda flooded in hq.

I tried to score some agendas, but he had gang signs and 2 Hq interfaces out (which let's him access 2 cards when I score something. On top of it, I was too poor to advance.

Over hq I had an Eli and lotus field. He parasited and datasuckered my Eli, and used yog + netready eyes to waltz right into hq and access 3 cards. He stole agendas and won.

So anyways, I revised the deck list a bit. I'm a bit worried that I have too many code gate ice (47%).

I took a few more of the suggestions too
Click Click Bang Bang v0.2

Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future (Core Set)

Agenda (8)
1x Eden Fragment (The Spaces Between)
2x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
2x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
3x Project Wotan (Creation and Control)

Asset (6)
2x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
2x Private Contracts (Cyber Exodus)
2x Thomas Haas (Creation and Control)

Upgrade (6)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead)
2x Caprice Nisei (Double Time) ••••• •••
2x Ruhr Valley (Future Proof)

Operation (10)
2x Bioroid Efficiency Research (Creation and Control)
2x Enhanced Login Protocol (The Spaces Between)
3x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)

Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
1x Heimdall 2.0 (Creation and Control)
1x Wotan (Second Thoughts)

Code Gate (9)
1x Chum (Core Set)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Hourglass (A Study in Static)
2x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) ••
2x Tollbooth (Core Set) ••••

Sentry (3)
2x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
1x Janus 1.0 (What Lies Ahead)

Other (2)
2x Howler (Creation and Control)
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Spaces Between

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
 
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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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The harsh truth about corping in the current state of the game is that "fun stuff" just don't win games. Netrunner tends to swing back and forth between runner and corp dominance and at the moment its very much the runners game so corps just have to bunker down and do what works. And usually what works is to have one focused strategy, that could be traps, but then you probably play Jinteki PE, as HB goes both Glacier and Fast Advance are viable but I have never seen any decent HB EtF trap decks.
 
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Zeb
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markusjarlstig wrote:
...in the current state of the game is that "fun stuff" just don't win games.


I couldn't disagree more! Besides the fact that the diverse tournament field is full of fun decks, there are plenty of examples of janky decks winning when piloted well.
 
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Ivan Barker
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I'm still learning to pilot these decks I make, but I have to say, I'm really enjoying building and playing them, and then revising them. I feel that too much focus is on tournament play. I've only been to one over the couple years I've been playing this game. Most of the time it's just messing around with friends.

But I would say for me, half of the fun is coming up with deck ideas. Most of these ideas I don't think are very popular, and it might not be popular because it doesn't work, but I'm trying to make them work.

The other half of the fun is that my friends don't know what to expect. Even if I don't win, we all get valuable experience. And if I land a trap, or a crazy combo, we all have a good time.

Yes HB isn't known for it's traps. My first tournament deck was a Jinteki PE deck. And I was able to get 5th place with it. And I really enjoyed the play style.

Frankly, I don't like fast advance decks, I feel that it takes the fun out of the game, and glacier decks look boring. And I like the bluffing and psychological game of traps. So that's what I'm trying to do.

I think this deck has shifted focus a bit, but it's still trap like, with a glacier component. Now this deck tries to lure the runner in to running a server, and make it so taxing, that they can't run again. And when they get to the end, and it's a bluffed asset that they can't trash, or a Thomas Haas, which I trash for the money on it. Then they are poor and then I score.

I'm still learning, but at least I'm making up my own fun ideas (and listening to fun suggestions), instead of just netdecking popular, tournament winning decks.
 
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