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Euphoria: Build a Better Dystopia» Forums » Rules

Subject: Multiple Workers Lost to one Knowledge Check? rss

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Ken Watson
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Last night, some friends and I were playing this terrific game, and I, for the first time in probably 5 sessions, decided to get a fourth worker. I roll my first knowledge check for the four workers (with a knowledge track value of 1) after retrieving them, and I roll:

6666

All four of us began yelling. So I discarded one of my workers, but then one of my opponents argued that I needed to lose two. His rationale is that I still had a total combined knowledge of 19, thus still greater than 15, and thus was required to lose an additional worker to get me back down to less than 16.

I disagreed, stating that it was one knowledge check (one roll of the dice), and that the rules state that you "lose the worker with the most knowledge", so that the knowledge check is performed once, and that "the worker" implies a single worker.

His rationale, in response, is that yes, it is a single knowledge check, but that, as stipulated in the rules, "if the total combined knowledge after the knowledge check is greater than or equal to 16, then you lse the worker with the most knowledge," and that because after I lost the first worker, it was still after the knowledge check and I was still greater than 15.

Both arguments seem reasonable. Having looked at the FAQ just now, it states that "Roll all new/retrieved workers and add the results to the current values of your remaining active workers (those not placed on the
board). Add the number of your position on the knowledge track. If the result equals or exceeds 16, remove (put into the reserve pool) a single worker with the highest value." This seems to support my argument more, but it could still leave room for his.

Thoughts?

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J. M. Lopez-Cepero "CP"
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Well, fortunately it won't come up very often , but you lose a maximum of one worker per knowledge check. So you would only have lost one in this scenario. The "single worker" clause in the FAQ refers to this.

Basically, you check exactly once per roll (doesn't matter how many dice were involved), and you lose a maximum of 1 worker per check.
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Mark Beazer
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The Archon wrote:

Both arguments seem reasonable. Having looked at the FAQ just now, it states that "Roll all new/retrieved workers and add the results to the current values of your remaining active workers (those not placed on the
board). Add the number of your position on the knowledge track. If the result equals or exceeds 16, remove (put into the reserve pool) a single worker with the highest value." This seems to support my argument more, but it could still leave room for his.

Thoughts?



I think the a single worker phrase leaves no room for argument.

Especially since it doesn't say "Lather, Rinse, and Repeat"
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Dave Dyer
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It's not quite so simple. Both you and opponents can do things
that result in increasing your knowledge, so you can lose workers
without a roll or taking a turn.

It's pretty clear that recruits that give your opponents knowledge
are intended to result in lost workers before their next turn.

In an extreme situation, you might have 2 excess workers, and
it would seem odd if they would survive for two complete rounds,
but only if nothing perturbed your knowledge.
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Bill Burton
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ddyer wrote:
It's not quite so simple. Both you and opponents can do things
that result in increasing your knowledge, so you can lose workers
without a roll or taking a turn.

It's pretty clear that recruits that give your opponents knowledge
are intended to result in lost workers before your next turn.

In an extreme situation, you might have 2 excess workers, and
it would seem odd if they would survive for two complete rounds,
but only if nothing perturbed your knowledge.


Huh?

Knowledge rolls happen when you retrieve workers or activate a new one and do not involve workers still on the board.
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Dave Dyer
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wtb1679 wrote:


Knowledge rolls happen when you retrieve workers or activate a new one and do not involve workers still on the board.


Workers in your hand are affected by changes in knowledge until
they are played on the board. This discussion is about if and
when "excess" workers in your hand are lost.
 
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J. M. Lopez-Cepero "CP"
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ddyer wrote:
Workers in your hand are affected by changes in knowledge until
they are played on the board. This discussion is about if and
when "excess" workers in your hand are lost.


Which would only be whenever you remove one or more die from the board:

Euphoria manual wrote:

Whenever you remove dice from the board for any reason, roll that die or dice and do a knowledge check. Here are the situations in which you will be rolling a die or dice:

d10-1 Retrieving dice from the board (roll only the retrieved dice).

d10-2 Making a new worker (roll only the new worker).

d10-3 Your worker is bumped off the board by another worker (roll only the bumped worker die).

d10-4 Any dice that were on a construction site when a market is completed (roll only those dice).


So just increasing your knowledge is not enough to make you lose dice - you have to actually roll for the knowledge check to occur.
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Dave Dyer
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That's a supportable opinion. I guess we'll have to wait for Jamey to weigh in with the definitive ruling. It seems to be that if you (or your opponents) do something to increase your knowledge, your workers ought to be at risk immediately.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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You only do knowledge checks when you roll at least one worker die, and you can lose at most one worker per knowledge check.
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Dave Dyer
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jameystegmaier wrote:
You only do knowledge checks when you roll at least one worker die, and you can lose at most one worker per knowledge check.


Ok - this rarely happens in actual play, but I've made the change
in the online version. Perhaps with the assurance that you can only
lose 1, extreme worker recalls will be more common.

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Jamey Stegmaier
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Thanks Dave!
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Ken Watson
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Thanks for the input, everybody. No longer do I have to fear losing two workers to what is normally (i.e., in other games) such an awesome roll.
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