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Subject: Honest question about the price. rss

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Eokae Loki
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It's set at $79 for the hero minis pledge. That is 15 minis? (Including +2 new classes from stretch goals)

Comparing with zombicide season 3 @$100 pledge, Core set(92 minis)MSRP$100ish + KS exclusives(30+ minis) + box of minis/stuff(20 minis)MSRP$15ish + storage box for hero boards & dice. Close to 140 minis!
Hmm.. that $20 difference seems kinda huge. Although I have to admit the minis from zombicide are not of super quality.



"Also remember that if you purchase the game through Kickstarter, you'll get a significant discount off the MSRP, especially after considering the added cost for shipping."
Stated on the page Gloomhaven's KS page, how much the would the discount be? Let's say 30%, so retail will be $112?

Everyone is saying molds are expensive and would increase the price of the game, but $79(KS)-$112(retail) with only 15 minis?
I'm sure zombicide season 3 minis are all new and require new molds as well, they are not reused from previous ones.


Again, this is an honest question, I'm not trying to bash Gloomhaven. I really like it's adventure/exploration mechanics and I'm very keen on backing it but the to me it seems like of value and that is entirely my honest opinion.

However, I doubt this post would lower the price of the pledge(I WISH) but I would love to see more things(exclusives,expansions) added to & for the backers.

Edited: I've mention about Dungeon Saga's stretch goals for gameplay content. Which could be sold at retail instead of being solely exclusives.
1. More quests (more type of tiles? more hero classes, monster bosses)
2. Expansion packs (new exploration of islands, entirely new maps)
3. Adventurer's Companion(as an example)


I'm using zombicide as a comparison because it was on KS and I bought it retail at $100USD.

Read update before saying the same things over again.
Update :
1. Not a minis game
2. Thousands of cards
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Rav
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Well, two things. One, this isn't a minis game, it's a game with some optional minis. Don't back this if all you want is minis. They're not the end-all, be-all of games.

Another thing, this has over a thousand cards currently, and growing.

As far as non-physical objects in the game, it actually seems to be a good game to actually play, not just to buy for the minis and toss out the rules.
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Chris Seidler
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You have to think this way: When you buy from CMON, you buy miniatures with a bit of a game. If you buy Gloomhaven, you get a massive and innovative amount of a game with a few minis.

Don't misunderstand me, generally there's nothing bad about minis. But if I'm to choose, I take the gameplay and pay for the designers work and not hundreds of minis that only have to be produced.
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Jason Parham
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Zombicide has minis with simplistic gameplay.

Gloomhaven has immersive gameplay with innovation and a few minis thrown in to represent your heroes.

These two games aren't even in the same league so comparing price is irrelevant.
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Renan Neori
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CMON's a giant miniatures power-house, they can probably make minis more efficiently and cheaply.

I don't have any CMON games so I can't say anything about their mini quality.
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Marty McFly
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Two additional things I think you need to keep in mind:

1. Most manufacturers will provide tiered discounts based on the amount being produced. According to the Zombicide page here on BGG (never played it myself), it comes with 71 minis. I'd assume that CMON is getting a discount on manufacturing due to the amount of minis being produced once you multiply that by thousands of games in a print run.

2. If it is true that the molds are an expensive component of minis (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), then 12+ unique minis for Gloomhaven is already more than the 10 unique minis that comes in the Zombicide base game. Sure, you get a lot of minis in Zombicide, but the majority of them are the same sculpt.
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Eokae Loki
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martidem wrote:
2. If it is true that the molds are an expensive component of minis (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), then 12+ unique minis for Gloomhaven is already more than the 10 unique minis that comes in the Zombicide base game. Sure, you get a lot of minis in Zombicide, but the majority of them are the same sculpt.


You got that right, however, zombicide had more exclusive minis which some are only available as exclusives, meaning they are not for sale.

Then again, let's not tunnel vision the thread and focused on my comparison with zombicide, as I've said, I own it.

Minis aside. What about gameplay contents? Like Dungeon Saga, the extra quests and Dungeon journal, also the much anticipated "Adventurer's Companion". These things could be added as exclusives and sold on retail level, as someone has already mention on other Gloomhaven threads.
 
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Mike Malley
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Gloomhaven has thousands of cards? I didn't know that.
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Marty McFly
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Eokaeloki wrote:

1. Not a minis game
2. Thousands of cards


I think this pretty much sums it up.
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Eokae Loki
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caffeinehead wrote:
Gloomhaven has thousands of cards? I didn't know that.


I don't know that either. I'm just taking Rav's words for it. laugh
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Eokae Loki
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martidem wrote:
Eokaeloki wrote:

1. Not a minis game
2. Thousands of cards


I think this pretty much sums it up.


What do you think of the suggestions of adding more gameplay content? Which can be sold at retail.
 
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Marty McFly
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caffeinehead wrote:
Gloomhaven has thousands of cards? I didn't know that.

Each of the hero classes (currently 14) has it's own deck of ability cards (30 cards each) and deck of battle cards (20 cards each). Each monster (about 40) has its own ability/battle deck (not sure how many, but probably 10-15 cards each). 200 items. 20 Battle goals. 20 Career goals. 90 Road/City events.

I haven't done the math but that's certainly over 1000 cards.
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Marty McFly
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Eokaeloki wrote:
martidem wrote:
Eokaeloki wrote:

1. Not a minis game
2. Thousands of cards


I think this pretty much sums it up.


What do you think of the suggestions of adding more gameplay content? Which can be sold at retail.

Gameplay content is already being added via stretch goals.

Isaac (the designer and publisher) has already said that he won't be including add-ons or KS exclusives. There are numerous debates throughout BGG on the topic, and it doesn't need to be debated once again here, IMO. What's important for this discussion is that Isaac is in the camp of not liking exclusives and add-ons and so we won't be seeing them for Gloomhaven.
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Renan Neori
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Isaac isn't a big company, you can't expect him to give you big company-style cheap prices.

Also each extra character is not just a mini, it's also new powers, concepts, balancing issues.

Each monster has 8 levels and each level has both a standard and elite form, so each monster is actually 16 monsters, and they all need to be balanced. Also each new monster requires either rewriting scenarios or adding new ones to include that monster.

And he is adding new content with each stretch goal, unless by content you mean minis.
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Eokae Loki
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Zanziham wrote:
And he is adding new content with each stretch goal, unless by content you mean minis.


No, I'm not talking about minis anymore. laugh

I guess everyone here just understands making board games really well and don't really expect anything more and accepts whatever the game is. modest

I honestly think, the new map idea I suggested(not sure if anyone else did) is a great option for an expansion.

Somehow it feels like I'm getting shit on for my questions! Would like to remind y'all, it was an honest question!
 
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Marty McFly
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Eokaeloki wrote:
I honestly think, the new map idea I suggested(not sure if anyone else did) is a great option for an expansion.

Isaac addressed this in one of his comments on KS. He has no official plans for an expansion at this time, but since the map sort of goes off the board, he did admit that it might be a possibility to extend the map with another board in the future. (But, he asserts, no actual plans and no promises.)
 
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Eokae Loki
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martidem wrote:
Eokaeloki wrote:
I honestly think, the new map idea I suggested(not sure if anyone else did) is a great option for an expansion.

Isaac addressed this in one of his comments on KS. He has no official plans for an expansion at this time, but since the map sort of goes off the board, he did admit that it might be a possibility to extend the map with another board in the future. (But, he asserts, no actual plans and no promises.)


Well, I guess that's good enough for now. On the bright side, there are still 17 more days to go.

You seemed to know alot about Gloomhaven. Would there happen to be a official discussion or updates from Issac on the further stretch goals?
 
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Renan Neori
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Eokaeloki wrote:
Zanziham wrote:
And he is adding new content with each stretch goal, unless by content you mean minis.


No, I'm not talking about minis anymore. laugh

I guess everyone here just understands making board games really well and don't really expect anything more and accepts whatever the game is. modest

I honestly think, the new map idea I suggested(not sure if anyone else did) is a great option for an expansion.

Somehow it feels like I'm getting shit on for my questions! Would like to remind y'all, it was an honest question!


You do realize such an expansion would cost more money, right? It means more scenarios, events, probably items too, and monsters. There's even less of a chance of that getting in for free.
 
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Eokae Loki
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Zanziham wrote:
You do realize such an expansion would cost more money, right? It means more scenarios, events, probably items too, and monsters. There's even less of a chance of that getting in for free.


Yes I do. I did not mention that I expect the expansion to be included. Simply an expansion.
However, come to think of it, it'll be nice as an add-on feature for KS but according to Issac comments on expansions we'll probably see it in retail by then, THEN again, 17 days is a long time anything can happen!
 
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Marty McFly
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Eokaeloki wrote:
martidem wrote:
Eokaeloki wrote:
I honestly think, the new map idea I suggested(not sure if anyone else did) is a great option for an expansion.

Isaac addressed this in one of his comments on KS. He has no official plans for an expansion at this time, but since the map sort of goes off the board, he did admit that it might be a possibility to extend the map with another board in the future. (But, he asserts, no actual plans and no promises.)


Well, I guess that's good enough for now. On the bright side, there are still 17 more days to go.

You seemed to know alot about Gloomhaven. Would there happen to be a official discussion or updates from Issac on the further stretch goals?

Check out the Kickstarter page. He has updates where he talks about current and upcoming stretch goals. He also does a podcast where he talks about the game. I haven't listened to that, so I can't point you in the right direction, but I'm sure the info can be found somewhere on the KS page, his KS profile, or the Cephalofair Games website.
 
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Renan Neori
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I doubt a whole new map can be developed and balanced properly in the course of two weeks and a half.

And I really don't understand what your original point was anymore. I thought it was that you felt that 79 bucks is too much for what you get for reasons you haven't devulged, but now you're fine if extra content costs more?

Is your point that you don't feel there's enough content in the game?
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Eokae Loki
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Zanziham wrote:
I doubt a whole new map can be developed and balanced properly in the course of two weeks and a half.

And I really don't understand what your original point was anymore. I thought it was that you felt that 79 bucks is too much for what you get for reasons you haven't devulged, but now you're fine if extra content costs more?

Is your point that you don't feel there's enough content in the game?


It says May 2016 as it's estimated delivery date. So surely there'll be more time.

I did make my reasons clearly, it was the minis and MORE gameplay content(EDIT really more not 3 or 5quests/scenario, Dungeon saga's adventurer companion is a good example however i'm not sure of it's compatibility with Gloomhaven, but rules for creating your heroes seems kinda nice).

Let me clarify,
-extra content if free = Yay. Best case scenario
-extra content if addon = Cool, MAY pay for it
-as at the current stretch goals = not entirely sold on backing it YET, why? because I don't have a strong purchasing power atm which reasons are confidential.

That is why I seem like I'm ranting but really I would like to back the game and probably seeking for strangers to justify that $79 as well spent!!
 
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Renan Neori
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Eokaeloki wrote:
Zanziham wrote:
I doubt a whole new map can be developed and balanced properly in the course of two weeks and a half.

And I really don't understand what your original point was anymore. I thought it was that you felt that 79 bucks is too much for what you get for reasons you haven't devulged, but now you're fine if extra content costs more?

Is your point that you don't feel there's enough content in the game?


It says May 2016 as it's estimated delivery date. So surely there'll be more time.

I did make my reasons clearly, it was the minis and MORE gameplay content(EDIT really more not 3 or 5quests/scenario, Dungeon saga's adventurer companion is a good example however i'm not sure of it's compatibility with Gloomhaven, but rules for creating your heroes seems kinda nice).

Let me clarify,
-extra content if free = Yay. Best case scenario
-extra content if addon = Cool, MAY pay for it
-as at the current stretch goals = not entirely sold on backing it YET, why? because I don't have the purchasing power which reasons are confidential.

That is why I seem like I'm ranting but really I would like to back the game and probably seeking for strangers to justify that $79 as well spent!!


If you have monetary problems then just wait until it hits retail and buy it then. There won't be any game-changing KS exclusives so you won't miss anything.

e: assuming your economic troubles end by then
 
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Eokae Loki
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Zanziham wrote:
If you have monetary problems then just wait until it hits retail and buy it then. There won't be any game-changing KS exclusives so you won't miss anything.

e: assuming your economic troubles end by then


I've thought of that. Seeing as it is, there isn't gonna be an exclusives I might as well wait for retail. But the 10USD for shipping is amazing... When it hits retail for over here, 1. which is not a guarantee 2. it'll be at least 25-30USD more.

My decision is to just wait til the last hour.
 
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Adam Burger
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Eokaeloki wrote:

"Also remember that if you purchase the game through Kickstarter, you'll get a significant discount off the MSRP, especially after considering the added cost for shipping."
Stated on the page Gloomhaven's KS page, how much the would the discount be? Let's say 30%, so retail will be $112?


That's the only question I could find in the OP, if you disregard the over-lined stuff, and I believe Isaac has said the game would probably cost about $100, that would make it a 20% discount on MSRP.

Considering the content I'd call that a good deal even if there were no minis and just standees for everything. Some (many?) people actually prefer standees to minis. And standees have the added benefit in that you can cram a lot more standees in a box than you can minis. =)

Hope that helps,
/A
 
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