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Subject: Leadership spill in Australia rss

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So, we have a weird thing in Australia where the Prime Minister can be replaced by a vote of his or her own party. Not registered voters of that party, members of parliament. Last night the members of the ruling Liberal party (liberal in a free trade sense, conservative otherwise) decided to change their leader, so now we have a new prime minister without waiting for the election to come around.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-15/newly-elected-liberal-...
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sbszine wrote:
So, we have a weird thing in Australia where the Prime Minister can be replaced by a vote of his or her own party. Not registered voters of that party, members of parliament. Last night the members of the ruling Liberal party (liberal in a free trade sense, conservative otherwise) decided to change their leader, so now we have a new prime minister without waiting for the election to come around.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-15/newly-elected-liberal-...


But the Australian electorate doesn't vote for the Prime Minister, we vote for a party that forms a majority in the lower house. That party then votes on it's leader.

Sure Australian elections are run like American style personality contests but parties can replace leaders without the electorate being involved. And now both parties have while in office, it's like deja vu all over again.
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Yep, that's true. In practice, though, when the leader changes the policies change, often quite radically. I think it would feel a bit more democratic if the broader party membership voted, rather than just the MPs. Some smaller parties do that but not the two big parties.
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Anyway, I reckon the new guy must surely be better, or at the very least less annoying to listen to.
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sbszine wrote:
Yep, that's true. In practice, though, when the leader changes the policies change, often quite radically. I think it would feel a bit more democratic if the broader party membership voted, rather than just the MPs. Some smaller parties do that but not the two big parties.


True, though look at the 'reform' the Labour introduced for leadership spills. A vote of all members and parliamentary members but parliamentary members count more, so you have an opposition leader who lost the vote of the members but won the support of his colleagues so won the ballot.

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sbszine wrote:
Anyway, I reckon the new guy must surely be better, or at the very least less annoying to listen to.


True, it will be interesting how a small 'l' liberal deals with the far right of the party.
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petegs wrote:
sbszine wrote:
Anyway, I reckon the new guy must surely be better, or at the very least less annoying to listen to.


True, it will be interesting how a small 'l' liberal deals with the far right of the party.


Is Turnbull a small "L" liberal?

I find it ironic that our right-wing party calls itself "Liberal" in the first place.

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sbszine wrote:
Anyway, I reckon the new guy must surely be better, or at the very least less annoying to listen to.


That fact that Abbott now has more time to concentrate on Iron Man events should be good for everyone.

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da pyrate wrote:
Is Turnbull a small "L" liberal?

I find it ironic that our right-wing party calls itself "Liberal" in the first place.

Turnbull seems to be a libertarian to me, though presumably the party won't let him do much in the social arena. And he'll be wary of captain's calls at this point.
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petegs wrote:
But the Australian electorate doesn't vote for the Prime Minister, we vote for a party that forms a majority in the lower house. That party then votes on it's leader.


Though even that isn't strictly true either. The party they belong to is actually a fairly non-binding part of it all.

You vote for the candidate, who when standing for election may or may not identify with a grouping of like candidates. They are at liberty when elected to freely change between said groups of MPs, as they see fit, without the need for a by-election.

Though it is all much more organised than this, I believe this is the constitutional reality. Of course I might be very wrong.
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da pyrate wrote:
I find it ironic that our right-wing party calls itself "Liberal" in the first place.


It is related to their attitudes to tax cuts for the rich & hand-outs to corporations. They are very liberal.
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It's kind of funny. When we left Australia in 2007 Howard was in the very tail-end of his prime ministership. I believe he was the last to serve an actual full term. And yet the "presidential" style of politics seems to continue substantially unaffected.

Hopefully Turnbull has the guts to sort the gay marriage issue out once and for all.
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petegs wrote:
sbszine wrote:
So, we have a weird thing in Australia where the Prime Minister can be replaced by a vote of his or her own party. Not registered voters of that party, members of parliament. Last night the members of the ruling Liberal party (liberal in a free trade sense, conservative otherwise) decided to change their leader, so now we have a new prime minister without waiting for the election to come around.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-15/newly-elected-liberal-...


But the Australian electorate doesn't vote for the Prime Minister, we vote for a party that forms a majority in the lower house. That party then votes on it's leader.

Sure Australian elections are run like American style personality contests but parties can replace leaders without the electorate being involved. And now both parties have while in office, it's like deja vu all over again.
It has long be one of my gripes that our (yours and mine) system of elections are not presidential, and should not be treated as such.
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petegs wrote:
sbszine wrote:
So, we have a weird thing in Australia where the Prime Minister can be replaced by a vote of his or her own party. Not registered voters of that party, members of parliament. Last night the members of the ruling Liberal party (liberal in a free trade sense, conservative otherwise) decided to change their leader, so now we have a new prime minister without waiting for the election to come around.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-15/newly-elected-liberal-...


But the Australian electorate doesn't vote for the Prime Minister, we vote for a party that forms a majority in the lower house. That party then votes on it's leader.
We sort of do that too, except the leader is know beforehand and there is no majority party, but rather a co-alition. Still, our PM cannot be replaced at the whim of his/her party. General elections would be needed.
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slatersteven wrote:
petegs wrote:
sbszine wrote:
So, we have a weird thing in Australia where the Prime Minister can be replaced by a vote of his or her own party. Not registered voters of that party, members of parliament. Last night the members of the ruling Liberal party (liberal in a free trade sense, conservative otherwise) decided to change their leader, so now we have a new prime minister without waiting for the election to come around.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-15/newly-elected-liberal-...


But the Australian electorate doesn't vote for the Prime Minister, we vote for a party that forms a majority in the lower house. That party then votes on it's leader.

Sure Australian elections are run like American style personality contests but parties can replace leaders without the electorate being involved. And now both parties have while in office, it's like deja vu all over again.
It has long be one of my gripes that our (yours and mine) system of elections are not presidential, and should not be treated as such.


Actually I think the UK and Australia have become quite similar in that regard. Media focuses on the leadership and in turn people end up voting as much for the leader as anyone else. The difference is that as we've just seen its really quite easy to turf your leader in Australia while its quite hard in the UK. That difference I believe comes from internal rules though.

As someone who mostly voted liberal I was never a fan of Abbot and stunts like trying to knight Phillip made him appear out of touch at best.
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da pyrate wrote:


Is Turnbull a small "L" liberal?

I find it ironic that our right-wing party calls itself "Liberal" in the first place.



Yes.. If I was a millionaire I'd challenge them in the courts for the right to call them selves such..

Also can we all stop using the term Small "El" Liberal?
It really is just a pejorative. Hinting at limp cock politics..
Let's just call conservatives conservatives and Liberals liberals
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myopia wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
petegs wrote:
sbszine wrote:
So, we have a weird thing in Australia where the Prime Minister can be replaced by a vote of his or her own party. Not registered voters of that party, members of parliament. Last night the members of the ruling Liberal party (liberal in a free trade sense, conservative otherwise) decided to change their leader, so now we have a new prime minister without waiting for the election to come around.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-15/newly-elected-liberal-...


But the Australian electorate doesn't vote for the Prime Minister, we vote for a party that forms a majority in the lower house. That party then votes on it's leader.

Sure Australian elections are run like American style personality contests but parties can replace leaders without the electorate being involved. And now both parties have while in office, it's like deja vu all over again.
It has long be one of my gripes that our (yours and mine) system of elections are not presidential, and should not be treated as such.


Actually I think the UK and Australia have become quite similar in that regard. Media focuses on the leadership and in turn people end up voting as much for the leader as anyone else. The difference is that as we've just seen its really quite easy to turf your leader in Australia while its quite hard in the UK. That difference I believe comes from internal rules though.

As someone who mostly voted liberal I was never a fan of Abbot and stunts like trying to knight Phillip made him appear out of touch at best.
Gordon Brown?
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antiussentiment wrote:
da pyrate wrote:


Is Turnbull a small "L" liberal?

I find it ironic that our right-wing party calls itself "Liberal" in the first place.



Yes.. If I was a millionaire I'd challenge them in the courts for the right to call them selves such..

Also can we all stop using the term Small "El" Liberal?
It really is just a pejorative. Hinting at limp cock politics..
Let's just call conservatives conservatives and Liberals liberals


The problem is that to most of the rest of the world liberal (with the small L) means something. It isn't a pejorative at all - small-l liberalism is a well respected position.
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Turnbull was a lawyer, journalist, merchant banker and venture capitalist. Born to money and certain attitudes (which he has let slip a few times over the years, just not as often as Abbott).

No, he's not the frothing religious loon that Abbott is, so he's not as bad in that way, but I can't say I see anything to indicate that he's any better. He did, after all, willingly knobble the NBN whilst knowing full-well what he was doing.
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JasonJ0 wrote:
I can't say I see anything to indicate that he's any better.


Didn't he support a more sensible climate change policy? That seems dramatically better than Abbott. He might back off from that to some extent for political reasons now, but certainly his own personal beliefs seem much better.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
I can't say I see anything to indicate that he's any better.


Didn't he support a more sensible climate change policy? That seems dramatically better than Abbott. He might back off from that to some extent for political reasons now, but certainly his own personal beliefs seem much better.
He did indeed, which is precisely why he lost the leadership of the party to Tony Abbot some years ago (to whom he has now just returned the favour). Due to that history he may be somewhat reticent to return to his "more sensible climate change policy", time will tell I suppose.
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