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Subject: Map and stickers alternative? rss

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Adam Burger
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There has been some talk about content vs. upgraded components as well as discussions about the pros and cons of the current legacy mechanic. And one idea I came up with is the following.

One component upgrade I would like to see is a better solution to the map and legacy mechanic. Stickers just feels.. meh. I would prefer something where you could make changes to the map that were less permanent but still marked on the map where you have been and what scenarios are available.

If the day ever comes that I have played my last game of Gloomhaven and I want to pass the game along to my grandchildren like a valued heirloom, I would want them to be able to play the game like it was new and discover the world in their own way from the same starting point I had.

Perhaps some sort of plastic studs could be used to mark locations, they could even be studs of different colors to show which gaming group completed which scenario and which ones are still open and uncompleted etc?

We would still need a way to track various global achievements and other information that is meant to be stickered onto the map itself, but I would be fine using a separate sheet for that if need be. Perhaps there is a better solution to that issue as well?

Isaac is a smart man, and he has surrounded himself with some talented people as well, I am sure they could make it work.

what do you think?
/Adam
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Craig C
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Get a second map, so your grandchildren can see your adventures, and then create their own.
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Steve Z
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Buy 2 games !
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Marty McFly
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You can get clear plastic sheets used for book jacket protectors. (Click here for Amazon search of what I'm talking about.) Wrap the board in plastic and then use a permanent marker to track information.
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Kris Ardianto
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Vex85 wrote:
Buy 2 games !


As an heirloom, buying a second game is not expensive at all.
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calpurnio pison

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i hope will be a downloadable map and stickers... in fact, stickers will not be needed if i can write on map, directly.

and i could write in gothic fonts that saying "here were dragons, but now only bones!", and show to the neighbour's grandchindrens.

you know, this kind of stuff...
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Magic Pink
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Isaac has already said he'll be making "character sheets" for the world available so you don't have to use the stickers and map
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Adam Burger
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bird94us wrote:
Get a second map, so your grandchildren can see your adventures, and then create their own.


Vex85 wrote:
Buy 2 games !


While those two alternatives are certainly an option they both seem inelegant. Both options kind of miss the upgraded component issue which I was referring to. And neither option actually solves the "problem" it just delays it. =)

/Adam
 
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Adam Burger
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Magic Pink wrote:
Isaac has already said he'll be making "character sheets" for the world available so you don't have to use the stickers and map


Yes, that would also be an option. But I do like the idea of making changes to the map itself as you progress, I would just prefer a way to be able to restore it to it's start point if I ever decide I've played my last game of Gloomhaven.

/Adam
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Adam Burger
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martidem wrote:
You can get clear plastic sheets used for book jacket protectors. (Click here for Amazon search of what I'm talking about.) Wrap the board in plastic and then use a permanent marker to track information.


Something like that might work as well as a homemade solution and it's certainly more practical than buying multiple copies of the game.

But if we are talking about upgraded components I am slightly less enthusiastic. Don't get me wrong, I think the game will be absolutely awesome whatever happens, just trying to come up with ways to make it even better out of the box.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...

Was thinking something along those lines, but more custom for this game.

/Adam
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Michael Guidry
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I am not a fan of this new "Legacy" trend. I have games from when I was a child and if they were legacy games they would've been thrown away. But since they weren't I can play them with my son, which in my mind is a true legacy game. If I were to play one of these new legacy games (as intended) I'd want it to be $20 or less and have the intent of throwing it away after completing it. I think all components should be cheap in this style of game because it becomes worthless after playing it and I don't want to feel bad for throwing it away. I think a better name for them is "disposable" because that's what they are...
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Marty McFly
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calpurnio1973 wrote:
i hope will be a downloadable map

Since the world map isn't really used during game play except to track information, a large-scale PDF of the map board would probably be the best solution. Then you can print as many copies as you want, in whatever size you want (a larger "board" from your local print and copy shop, or just on a single sheet of paper from your home printer). You could even get it screen-printed on fabric if you wanted to spend the money to do so.
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Michael Guidry
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Adamacer wrote:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...

Was thinking something along those lines, but more custom for this game.

/Adam


This is an interesting idea. I don't think I've ever seen snaps built into a game board, sounds expensive though.
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Marty McFly
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Adamacer wrote:
martidem wrote:
You can get clear plastic sheets used for book jacket protectors. (Click here for Amazon search of what I'm talking about.) Wrap the board in plastic and then use a permanent marker to track information.


Something like that might work as well as a homemade solution and it's certainly more practical than buying multiple copies of the game.

But if we are talking about upgraded components I am slightly less enthusiastic. Don't get me wrong, I think the game will be absolutely awesome whatever happens, just trying to come up with ways to make it even better out of the box.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...

Was thinking something along those lines, but more custom for this game.

/Adam

This topic has come up a number of times here and in the Kickstarter comments. Some love the idea of Gloomhaven being a "legacy" game, and some hate it. But Isaac seems pretty adamant that his intention is for the game to be permanently modified as you play. He's offered the PDF for world/map tracking, but I think that's about as far as he's willing to take it.
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Adam Burger
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Yes, I am aware the topic has been raised several times, which indicates that there are quite a few people who would prefer a less permanent solution.

My option does not necessarily exclude those who prefer stickers and markers on the map itself. But Like I said, I do like the idea of manipulating the map itself to track information. Might be just me, but I would prefer a different way to that than the currently outlined option.

It's by no means a deal breaker and I will get the game either way and make my own homemade solution if need be. But if we are talking about possible SG's and component upgrades this is one I personally would like to see.

/adam
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Isaac Childres
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Yes, as Marty and others have said, a PDF of the map will be provided. The PDF will also include detailed instructions on how to reset your envelopes and everything else.
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Adam Burger
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Cephalofair wrote:
Yes, as Marty and others have said, a PDF of the map will be provided. The PDF will also include detailed instructions on how to reset your envelopes and everything else.


So no chance for an "upgraded map" as a stretch goal at some point then? Ok no worries, I'll make my own homemade solution for it then. Keep up the great work. While you're here what are your thoughts about adding some sort of calendar to track time and seasons in the game?

/Adam
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Jonas Vanschooren
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Topic 4675 with the same proposition/question.

Just give up please, this is not going to happen.
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David Kartzinel
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My problem is that I'm conflicted. I love the idea of a legacy game and your decisions having real consequences, but the part of me that spends the money on the game and hopes that my kids will love it cringes at the idea of permanently altering it. I'm planning on doing something to simulate permanent changes but that can be undone once the game is complete. I even thought about trying to do a magnetized dry erasable version of the map.
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Marty McFly
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dkartzinel wrote:
...the part of me that spends the money on the game and hopes that my kids will love it cringes at the idea of permanently altering it.

This occurred to me too, but then I thought that there are so many games coming out every year, that by the time my kids are ready to play a game like this, there will be many, many other options that are just as good.
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James
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One thing I plan on doing with the map is sticking or perhaps even screen printing a copy of it onto a sheet of wood, drilling a peg hole for each mission, and cutting some short dowel pegs to paint red, blue or black to fit. That way as long as I get the fit right nothing should come out between plays but I can reset when I wish.

I'm tempted to sink some tiny rare earth magnets into the holes and work something out with the pegs for a more secure fit too. Not sure yet.

I originally wanted a magnetic backing on the map but the other elements would simply slide around in the box.
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Juan Crespo
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Happyshopper wrote:
One thing I plan on doing with the map is sticking or perhaps even screen printing a copy of it onto a sheet of wood, drilling a peg hole for each mission, and cutting some short dowel pegs to paint red, blue or black to fit. That way as long as I get the fit right nothing should come out between plays but I can reset when I wish.

I'm tempted to sink some tiny rare earth magnets into the holes and work something out with the pegs for a more secure fit too. Not sure yet.

I originally wanted a magnetic backing on the map but the other elements would simply slide around in the box.
Please tell me you're kidding here. With this amount of time/effort/$$, you could easily pledge for a second copy!
 
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Michael Guidry
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juanma99 wrote:
Happyshopper wrote:
One thing I plan on doing with the map is sticking or perhaps even screen printing a copy of it onto a sheet of wood, drilling a peg hole for each mission, and cutting some short dowel pegs to paint red, blue or black to fit. That way as long as I get the fit right nothing should come out between plays but I can reset when I wish.

I'm tempted to sink some tiny rare earth magnets into the holes and work something out with the pegs for a more secure fit too. Not sure yet.

I originally wanted a magnetic backing on the map but the other elements would simply slide around in the box.
Please tell me you're kidding here. We this amount of time/effort/$$, you could easily pledge for a second copy!


I agree this is a lot of effort, but what good would a second copy do? You can play each of them once... People who don't want to permanently change their game have more of a collector mentality and want to be able to have unlimited plays of the game.
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Isaac Childres
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Adamacer wrote:
Cephalofair wrote:
Yes, as Marty and others have said, a PDF of the map will be provided. The PDF will also include detailed instructions on how to reset your envelopes and everything else.


So no chance for an "upgraded map" as a stretch goal at some point then? Ok no worries, I'll make my own homemade solution for it then. Keep up the great work. While you're here what are your thoughts about adding some sort of calendar to track time and seasons in the game?

/Adam

I have certainly read that calendar thread and it is something I am thinking about. It would be a lot more complicated than some people think, though, and would add to the development time.
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Jonas Vanschooren
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Isaac if you really want to go that way, a promise from you that a mini expansion like that would be available somewhere after retail would do the trick aswell, and that without a delay time for thecrest of us.
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