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A Few Acres of Snow» Forums » Variants

Subject: Minimal Deck Size to fix HH rss

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Beau Bocephus Blasterfire
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If HH works by culling the deck to a certain size, then wouldn't the cleanest and simplest solution be to implement a minimum deck size just above the point where HH becomes effective?

So how many cards is that?
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Chris
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The convention is to not be allowed to Govern your starting cards.
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Clyde W
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Define decksize.

Because one trick is to dump military cards into a battle, then cycle through your now small deck and gain tons of money.
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Beau Bocephus Blasterfire
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clydeiii wrote:
Define decksize.

Because one trick is to dump military cards into a battle, then cycle through your now small deck and gain tons of money.

Decksize would include starting cards and cards that you have added minus the cards that have been culled/removed.
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Beau Bocephus Blasterfire
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
The convention is to not be allowed to Govern your starting cards.

So you play by the rule that you cannot cull/remove starting cards...
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Clyde W
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bbblasterfire wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Define decksize.

Because one trick is to dump military cards into a battle, then cycle through your now small deck and gain tons of money.

Decksize would include starting cards and cards that you have added minus the cards that have been culled/removed.
So adding mil into a battle isn't culling..?
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Federico
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bbblasterfire wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
The convention is to not be allowed to Govern your starting cards.

So you play by the rule that you cannot cull/remove starting cards...
It doesn't fix the issue, as the deck can be thinned by starting sieges.

Keep in mind that the balance is very frail, if you disallow the HH in an intrusive manner, then the game is won by the French. My experience suggests that as the British, if you cannot HH, you'd need to do both of: buy 2 neutral settlers the first time you have 2 actions to have a balanced settling / developing race, or improve your starting situation to avoid a French win by conquest. The issue is that you cannot do both as you don't have enough time.

If you want a more balanced experience, try this: remove 1 neutral settlers card and disallow sea sieges.

We tried a few settle / develop races with Tom (solkan1) and they seemed quite tense and balanced.
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Gavan Brown
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bbblasterfire wrote:
If HH works by culling the deck to a certain size, then wouldn't the cleanest and simplest solution be to implement a minimum deck size just above the point where HH becomes effective?

So how many cards is that?

I believe this would absolutely fix the issue. My theory is disallowing removal of cards below 13.
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Clyde W
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RoosterJuice wrote:
bbblasterfire wrote:
If HH works by culling the deck to a certain size, then wouldn't the cleanest and simplest solution be to implement a minimum deck size just above the point where HH becomes effective?

So how many cards is that?

I believe this would absolutely fix the issue. My theory is disallowing removal of cards below 13.
Fix the issue but at what cost?

If it absolutely would fix the issue, why didn't Martin Wallace fix the game in this manner?
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Beau Bocephus Blasterfire
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clydeiii wrote:
RoosterJuice wrote:
bbblasterfire wrote:
If HH works by culling the deck to a certain size, then wouldn't the cleanest and simplest solution be to implement a minimum deck size just above the point where HH becomes effective?

So how many cards is that?

I believe this would absolutely fix the issue. My theory is disallowing removal of cards below 13.
Fix the issue but at what cost?

If it absolutely would fix the issue, why didn't Martin Wallace fix the game in this manner?

Mythotopia has a rule about minimum deck size. So, while Martin Wallace did not try to fix AFAoS via a minimum deck size rule, he did implement such a rule in Mythotopia which is based off of AFAoS.

A link that discusses the rule:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1435492/minimal-deck-si...
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N S.
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
The convention is to not be allowed to Govern your starting cards.

More specifically, you can't Govern starting locations, unless they have been lost in a siege or raid. When Brits are stuck with Pemaquid and St. Mary in their deck, the HH strategy becomes a whole lot less attractive. I can only speak to my own experience, but this fix works well for me and it's become my preferred way to play. For what it's worth, I did manage to beat out4blood once under these rules.

Some kind of minimum deck size rule would work fine too, I expect, but the sticking point has always been deciding exactly what that minimum should be, how to keep track of it, etc. The No Governing Starting Location rule essentially does this by limiting your deck size to your starting deck.
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David Espada
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And what about suffling being an action? So if deck is thin you lose more actions suffling.
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Clyde W
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bbblasterfire wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
RoosterJuice wrote:
bbblasterfire wrote:
If HH works by culling the deck to a certain size, then wouldn't the cleanest and simplest solution be to implement a minimum deck size just above the point where HH becomes effective?

So how many cards is that?

I believe this would absolutely fix the issue. My theory is disallowing removal of cards below 13.
Fix the issue but at what cost?

If it absolutely would fix the issue, why didn't Martin Wallace fix the game in this manner?

Mythotopia has a rule about minimum deck size. So, while Martin Wallace did not try to fix AFAoS via a minimum deck size rule, he did implement such a rule in Mythotopia which is based off of AFAoS.

A link that discusses the rule:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1435492/minimal-deck-si...
4p games don't need as much balancing work, since if one player pulls ahead, the other three players can bash them. If one player pulls ahead here, there isn't another player you can team up with.
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Clyde W
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davinci wrote:
And what about suffling being an action? So if deck is thin you lose more actions suffling.
Again, it's possible this could help the French, but it's possible this change makes the French win every time then.
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Jari Kemppainen
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Noahboa wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
The convention is to not be allowed to Govern your starting cards.

More specifically, you can't Govern starting locations, unless they have been lost in a siege or raid. When Brits are stuck with Pemaquid and St. Mary in their deck, the HH strategy becomes a whole lot less attractive. I can only speak to my own experience, but this fix works well for me and it's become my preferred way to play. For what it's worth, I did manage to beat out4blood once under these rules.

Some kind of minimum deck size rule would work fine too, I expect, but the sticking point has always been deciding exactly what that minimum should be, how to keep track of it, etc. The No Governing Starting Location rule essentially does this by limiting your deck size to your starting deck.

What is the real meaning of this "not to govern your starting cards/locations"? In what way it affects the game play?
I don't quite understand it, maybe some language barrier here.
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Clyde W
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It is part of the deck thinning strategy that allows England to never lose.
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Isaac Marx
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clydeiii wrote:
It is part of the deck thinning strategy that allows England to never lose.
Put more explicitly, you can't use the Governor card to remove starting location cards from your deck.
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jari58 wrote:
Noahboa wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
The convention is to not be allowed to Govern your starting cards.

More specifically, you can't Govern starting locations, unless they have been lost in a siege or raid. When Brits are stuck with Pemaquid and St. Mary in their deck, the HH strategy becomes a whole lot less attractive. I can only speak to my own experience, but this fix works well for me and it's become my preferred way to play. For what it's worth, I did manage to beat out4blood once under these rules.

Some kind of minimum deck size rule would work fine too, I expect, but the sticking point has always been deciding exactly what that minimum should be, how to keep track of it, etc. The No Governing Starting Location rule essentially does this by limiting your deck size to your starting deck.

What is the real meaning of this "not to govern your starting cards/locations"? In what way it affects the game play?
I don't quite understand it, maybe some language barrier here.
I don't think it's a language barrier thing. I'm sure your English is excellent. But this whole conversation assumes a level of familiarity with the rules of the game and with the dominant British strategy that everyone wants to fix. Without knowing your level of understanding of these, it's difficult to know where to begin explaining.
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Jari Kemppainen
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Noahboa wrote:
I don't think it's a language barrier thing. I'm sure your English is excellent. But this whole conversation assumes a level of familiarity with the rules of the game and with the dominant British strategy that everyone wants to fix. Without knowing your level of understanding of these, it's difficult to know where to begin explaining.

It was a barrier of something after all! I didn't understand that a word "govern" means here the use of a governor card. Thank you for answers, I got it now.
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Mike Smith
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My long-standing tweak which I still use:
Only shuffle your discards at the very end of your turn, not when your draw runs out. So you can't pick up any cards that were not in your draw at the start of the turn.

So, if your deck is super thin, either because you have thinned it, or because you have a load of cards in a siege, then you will frequently go into the next turn with fewer than 5 cards. The thinner your deck the more often you get struck by this.
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Mark Macza
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I always thought that having a cost associated with the governor card might work as well. The British have a significant income but it would not be so easy to thin that deck if you've got to pay for it.
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