Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
9 Posts

Epic Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Help on Breakthrough and question about End Phase rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Joe Oppedisano
United States
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Just starting to work through the rules while playing and ran into a couple of things that I'm not clear on and hope someone can explain.

First I should mention that we decided to simply play two single faction decks against each other rather than dealing 30 cards at random, in case that makes a difference.

1. In the rules under the End Phase it indicates that any flipped characters are prepared. Since flipped characters are those controlled by the defending player who will be the active player in the very next turn, and champions are prepared at the start of that players turn, why does this even exist? Is there some other strategic card somewhere that makes it necessary to break these two "prepare" steps? Just interested in why this is even done.

2. This is regarding the Breakthrough effect. The rules state as follows, "If you assign damage from breakthrough champions to each blocker equal to their [shield], any remaining damage from breakthrough champions may be assigned to the defending player. (Damage from events and other champions does not help).

My specific questions are:

1. If I have 3 attackers and two have breakthrough (defending player has two blockers), do I have to separate out the breakthrough damage rather than combining all damage and distributing it as I please?

2. I am confused by the use of the word "each" in the definition. Do I have to total the breakthrough damage of my champions and then compare to each blocker individually or as a group?

3. If I play an event that deals damage before the damage step (such as Flame Strike - deal 8 damage to a target), leaving a blocker with less than its max defense, do I still have to consider the base defense when calculating breakthrough? Since the rules indicate that damage from events do not help with breakthrough, I would say yes. But this seems counter intuitive to me and makes getting any breakthrough damage much harder, imo.

Just for reference, here's an example (not necessarily the exact situation in the game):

Attacker is attacking with Wurm Hatchling 4/4 with breakthrough, Bellowing minotaur 7/5 with Breakthrough, and Sea Hydra 5/10 with three +1/+1 counters.

Defender has Angelic Protector 5/9 and Thundarus 10/15

Total attack is value is: 19
Total defense is: 24

I have Flame strike in my hand to deal 8 damage to a target.

I'm not sure I can use Flame Strike, then my attack value breaks both defenders and the excess goes to the player. Do I only consider the 11 attack value of the two breakthrough champions?

Any clarification is appreciated!


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Answering your initial observation:

One reason why flipped champions are prepared at the end of your turn, is because in some cases, your champions can become flipped on your turn. For example, an opponent could have used the card "Turn" on your one of your champions and used it to block the attack of another of your champions (placing the target of "Turn" in in the "Flipped" state), and then once the effect of "Turn" expires, that champion would be returned to your board, still flipped. There may be other cards now or in the future which can also cause that effect.

Onto questions:

1. Assign damage as normal, ignoring breakthrough. Now see if you can also hit their face for breakthrough damage. To see this, add up the attack of all your breakthrough champions, and subtract the defence of all of the champions they defended with. Do any excess damage to your opponent's health score.

2. (see above)

3. Yes, events don't help. The calculation is: Face Damage = Total Breakthrough - Total Defence. Damage on a champion doesn't change that champion's defence; a champion with 10 defence, who has taken 4 damage, still has 10 defence.

In your example, total breakthrough damage is 4 + 7 = 11, total defence is 24, so because 11 is smaller than 24, you don't do any breakthrough damage. If you had a total attack on all your breakthrough champions of 25 (which would be TERRIFYING, by the way), you'd do 1 damage to their health score after breaking all defenders.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Oppedisano
United States
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks so much for the clarifications! I assumed there must have been some reason for preparing in the end step, but not having seen all cards, I wasn't sure why.

As for breakthrough, your explanation definitely clears it up. But I have to say that seems a somewhat clunky and overly complicated mechanism, both strategically and in execution, imho.

Thanks again!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Newsham
United Kingdom
Halifax
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Adding up offense and subtracting defence is complicated?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Oppedisano
United States
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Tarnop wrote:
Adding up offense and subtracting defence is complicated?


I didn't say it was rocket science. But I do weigh how mechanisms are employed in comparison to the overall "feel" of a game. Given that this is a clear derivative of MtG, this mechanism is clunky (again, in my opinion), in comparison to it's "big brother."

But thanks for taking the time to make an implication about my intelligence rather than evaluate the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Newsham
United Kingdom
Halifax
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
oppedj02 wrote:
But thanks for taking the time to make an implication about my intelligence rather than evaluate the game.


I wrote only about the mechanism. Anything else you choose to infer, well, that's up to you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Oppedisano
United States
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Tarnop wrote:
oppedj02 wrote:
But thanks for taking the time to make an implication about my intelligence rather than evaluate the game.


I wrote only about the mechanism. Anything else you choose to infer, well, that's up to you.


Point taken.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Toltz
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
Your cat likes me more
badge
In brightest day / In blackest night / No evil shall escape my sight / Let those who worship evil's might / Beware my power--Green Lantern's light!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Regarding flipped champions, it also makes a difference for multiplayer. By preparing flipped champions at the end of every turn, it means each champion can block once per turn.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Oppedisano
United States
Eau Claire
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ahh, good to know. I had only intended to play as a 2-player game. So I would have probably never noted this effect.

Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.