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Subject: What Battlelore is... and what it isn't rss

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Roberto Arbelaez
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What Battlelore is and what it isn't: (just so you know, if you're thinking about buying it).

1) It is a miniature BOARDGAME and NOT a miniature wargame.
If you have experience with miniature wargames you should know that Battlelore is NOT a similar game. It will NOT quench your thirst for traditional miniature wargames. It does NOT "simulate" war as most wargames do. It's a boardgame (with a strong medieval/fantasy war theme), but not a war simulation.

You can't build your army by spending points. Armies are predefined and placed for each scenario. Also, your movement is limited by the boundaries of the board. You don't have full, strategic control over your army (instead, you depend on randomly selected command cards & lorecards to control your troops - if you can call such a thing "control").

2) It is Tactical, and NOT strategic.
Strategy depends on having a good measure of control over your resources. You desing a plan, and then you execute it. But in Battlelore you never have real, total control over your army.
Your "control" (if you can call it that) is limited to a specific, limited set of decisions allowed by the cards you're currently holding. Tactical decisions are limited by those same cards. You might need to react to some immediate event, without being able to do so because you don't have the proper cards.

So there's hardly any strategy (you could design one, but luck will decide if you get to execute it or not) and limited tactical options.

However, I wouldn't go as far as saying that Battlelore is completely and totally devoid of strategy, as some elements of strategy exist in different parts of the game (i.e. war council selection).

3) It is a luck dependant game (not totally, but significantly).

I'm NOT saying it's a total dicefest. Or that it is completely luck dependant.

Experience, right (and wrong) choices, and knowing when to use (or preserve) your resources will affect the outcome of the game. A smart/experienced player will have an advantage over a bad/inexperienced player. However, luck DOES play a SIGNIFICANT role in the game, and a smart/experienced player might often lose games just because he had bad luck.

Let me illustrate my point:

3a) Troop movements depend on randomly selected command cards. This means, sometimes you'll want (or need) to move a unit (or several units), but you won't be able to do so, because none of your command cards allow it. Winning or losing depends highly on wether or not you were lucky on your command cards draw.

3b)Success on attacks depends on dice rolls, and you might see some weird, funky dice action reminiscent of RISK games, in which a strong unit attacks a vulnerable one without being able to finish it off, but the vulnerable unit gets to fight back (by way of a battleback) annihilating the much stronger attacking unit.

3c) Lorecards are drawn randomly. You might get cards that don't help at all, or that are too expensive to use with the lore tokens you have. And getting lore tokens depends on dice throws...

3d) Lore tokens are won randomly (every time you roll the dice, you may get a lore token when the lore symbol appears), and they are needed to pay for lorecards and monster special powers. So if you're having a bad dice day, you might not get as many lore tokens as you need, and won't be able to play your lore cards or monster powers when you need them.

3e) Some lorecard effects depend on dicethrows. Once again, if you're having a bad dice day...

4) It can be fun, it can be frustrating (depends entirely on you!)

If you prefer strategic miniatures wargames and/or war simulations with low randomness and total control, games won by sheer strategic prowess and intelectual superiority, or if you often get frustrated by games in which luck plays a big role (or if you are always unlucky with dice - and I know people that claim such a thing) YOU WILL GET FRUSTRATED WITH THIS GAME. Otherwise, you'll enjoy Battlelore for what it is - a boardgame.

And as a boardgame, it can be fun. Not a top-5 game on the general game ranking of the BGG if you ask me, but fun anyway.
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Paul DeStefano
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rarbelaez wrote:
Not a top-5 game on the general game ranking of the BGG if you ask me, but fun anyway.
Indeed. It is insulting that it isn't in the top 3.
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Jesse Smit
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Quote:
2) It is Tactical, and NOT strategic.
Strategy depends on having a good measure of control over your resources. You desing a plan, and then you execute it. But in Battlelore you never have real, total control over your army.
I disagree with this.. you have a hand of say 6 cards so you have a pretty good idea of what youre going to be capable of for the next 5 or so turns. Plus you know whats in the deck and you can see what the opponent is discarding.
 
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Evan Stegman
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rarbelaez wrote:
...
3a) Troop movements depend on randomly selected command cards. This means, sometimes you'll want (or need) to move a unit (or several units), but you won't be able to do so, because none of your command cards allow it. Winning or losing depends highly on wether or not you were lucky on your command cards draw. ...
True to a degree.

But there are three attributes that can be used to activates troops: battlefield position (center or flank), unit type (foot or mounted) and banner color (green, blue or red).

Tip 1: use your battlefield position cards first. Save the more generic cards to allow flexibility.

Tip 2: Don't advance your troops without at least 2 cards in hand (except to take crucial defensive terrain hexes). This will allow you to either keep advancing or withdraw as the situation demands.

Tip 3: A higher commander level allows you more command cards. I never choose less than a level 2 (5 command cards in hand).

Very bad luck can cause problems but usually proper hand management can ameliorate it for the most part.


rarbelaez wrote:
...

3d) Lore tokens are won randomly ...
This is a misleading statement.

They are won randomly *AND* at the end of every turn, you get up to 2 lore.
 
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Houserule Jay
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I think with all the 'glowing' reviews this one sheds some light on the darker side of Battlelore which should be known, although anyone doing their research should already know that:

1. Battlelore is more tactical than strategic and your plans rely HEAVILY on what cards you are getting which brings us to...

2. There is a fair amount of luck in the game, more than a lot of people would like including me.

He also makes a good point at the end that as long as you know this and are willing to accept there is a good chance you will enjoy the game. I think it is a fun game myself but I can see why people don't think it is top 10 material with the luck element.

I really prefer to have a very good amount of control over my plans and to have a minimal luck factor but the funny thing is my favourite game, 'Duel of Ages', breaks these rules a little too. What does this mean, I don't know now cause I think I am just ranting at this point but maybe FUN FACTOR is and should be the most important factor considered which is why this game is climbing the rankings depite it's weakness's.
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simon thornton
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The ability to have limited influence on the battle (through command cards) is unrealistic to a degree but is it any less unrealistic than in the old days of minature wargames when you did have absolute total control over a medieval or ancient battlefield ?.

For what its worth seeing everything go pear shaped as one of your wings gets slaughtered and you cant do anything about it may be frustrating an seemingly unrealistic. I would argue that thats actually the way many medieval and ancient battles did finish.

The process by which Battlelore battles are resolved is artificial but the outcomes seem to mirror realities more closely than many more 'serious' games.
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Todd Pytel
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mateybob wrote:
Quote:
2) It is Tactical, and NOT strategic.
I disagree with this.. you have a hand of say 6 cards so you have a pretty good idea of what youre going to be capable of for the next 5 or so turns. Plus you know whats in the deck and you can see what the opponent is discarding.
I would second this point (while I play C&C:A, it's the exact same principle). While the C&C system certainly isn't "strategic" in the traditional sense of a strategic wargame, good hand management is essential to playing well, and that does have an element of strategy to it. You don't always want to play your best card (tactically speaking) on a given turn. Depending on the the flow of the scenario, you may want to play a downright crappy card just to free up that spot for better cards that will have an even greater impact at a moment of opportunity in the future. While I understand why some people complain that C&C games have too strong an element of luck when they watch their best troops sitting there immobilized, this can be mitigated somewhat by good hand management.
 
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Evan Stegman
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jayjonbeach wrote:
...
I really prefer to have a very good amount of control over my plans and to have a minimal luck factor but the funny thing is my favourite game, 'Duel of Ages', breaks these rules a little too. What does this mean, I don't know now cause I think I am just ranting at this point but maybe FUN FACTOR is and should be the most important factor considered which is why this game is climbing the rankings depite it's weakness's.
And that is it.

I don't conisider Battlelore a wargame but a battle game. The differences are all semantic and a matter of opinion but it is just such a smaller scale (at least in terms of hexes) than what I would consider a war game.

And maybe that's why its fun: luck = chaos. And the chaos just *feels* right for a battle game of this scope. Battlefields at this level *should* be chaotic - especially for melee battles.

 
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J Mathews
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While I am not all that thrilled with BattleLore as it is right now when compared to other games, I have to say that the amount of time being spent by people complaining that BattleLore, and the C&C system games, are totally luck driven and are devoid of strategy. In my opinion, having only 2 BL games but almost 100 M'44 games under my belt, this complaint is voiced by those who either aren't very familiar with the system or prefer to have an unrealistic amount of perfect control over their units in deciding where they go, when they hit, and how hard they hit.

I'm not saying that this system is as deep as the vast majority of consims, which this system makes no claim to be, but there is strategy that goes towards making a battle plan before the scenario starts. While your cards might affect turn-by-turn application of said plan, you should be able to put your plan into motion and then it's up to you to react to everything that changes due to dice rolls and your opponents. It is a very rare game that I lack the cards to start to implement the strategy that I think up at the beginning of the scenario. Of course, once the first 10 turns are done, the situation has changed and the battlefield that my original plan was created around no longer exists and I need a new plan. The idea that you should be able to create a plan and implement it perfectly is something more akin to chess or other abstract strategy games than something that is trying to model fantasy warfare.

While there is a lot of random elements in the system, implementing your plan and adjusting your plan to the shifting elements are skills that mitigate the luck. Just like any game with any sort of random elements, the closer in skill level two players are, the more the random elements will determine the winner. However, it is a rare game with this system where a superior player will get beat (unless you take the Americans on Omaha Beach or some other stupidly unbalanced scenario). But random elements do not equal luck. There are many ways to implement and use the cards that you get and those that can figure out a way to utilize all of their cards will always defeat those who are looking for specific cards to pull off killer moves.

That being said, it is a matter of taste as to how much chaos and how many random elements you like in your games. Some people like perfect control over their units. Those people will hate any C&C game and that should be no surprise. I happen to love the type of random elements and 'strategizing on the fly' that the card play gives you in this system and, most recently done much better in Combat Commander. But to say that this game is luck dependant and is lacking strategy smacks of sour grapes or lack of experience with the system and is misrepresenting the game. To say it's too random for your gaming tastes would seem to be a much more accurate way to express the same thought.
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David Cronkite
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My lord, this is a game, right?
 
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Matt Keyes
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Having a card-driven system with dice exemplifies the classic problem of articulation on a battlefield. You don't get to move every unit just how you would like exactly when you would like to, but neither did generals of the medieval and ancient time period, either.

Of course, this game is a far cry from realism, but, to some degree, it does simulate the classic problem of unit articulation on the battlefield to a nice degree.
 
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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This has been memtioned before, but I find one of the more valid knocks against the game(s) is that often a scenario is over before a the battle is really joined. That is, a lot a peripheral and forward units are nibbled away in a chase for points, which results in just enough VPs to end a scenario for one side or the other. A lot of an opposing force has still to be engaged.

A friend has suggested that Light Foot units only count a half-point apiece (or perhaps the first Light unit killed not count towards the tally) and that perhaps the heaviest/noblest unit in the opposing force be worth 2 points.

I think this is a nice house rule that puts more emphasis on beating units that have real impact on the battlefield. And if you can take out your opponent's heaviest unit, that goes a long way towards shaking the morale of the enemy.

Another is to include at least one mandatory terrain objective, whenever possible, before a win can be declared. This will force a player to try to move their army with a will towards a key piece of terrain—something a real army would do.

I think it's no secret that I love these games, but soemtimes a battle does seem to be over before it ever really gets started. For folks that feel that way, I think these simple fixes can be implemented without too much hassle.
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Derek H
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rarbelaez wrote:

You can't build your army by spending points. Armies are predefined and placed for each scenario.
This will be addressed by GMT games in upcoming releases; not as "points" but using another mechanism appropriate to this type of game

Quote:
Also, your movement is limited by the boundaries of the board.
Just like most miniature games, in fact!

Quote:
You don't have full, strategic control over your army (instead, you depend on randomly selected command cards & lorecards to control your troops - if you can call such a thing "control").
Yes, indeed, you can - its called "the chaos" of war, or "command and control" issues. This is not Chess, nor an unrealistic "simulation" where you have full control of every aspect of your army.

Quote:
However, luck DOES play a SIGNIFICANT role in the game, and a smart/experienced player might often lose games just because he had bad luck.
Experience from other games in hte series suggests that a smart/experienced player may sometimes lose games...

Quote:
If you prefer strategic miniatures wargames and/or war simulations with low randomness and total control, games won by sheer strategic prowess and intelectual superiority... YOU WILL GET FRUSTRATED WITH THIS GAME. Otherwise, you'll enjoy Battlelore for what it is - a boardgame.

This is true; but if you can let go of your preconcpetions of what a wargame should be, and enjoy a different take in which card management, tactical decision making and the ability to "think on the fly" are key, YOU WILL ENJOY THIS GAME.

Quote:
if you often get frustrated by games in which luck plays a big role (or if you are always unlucky with dice - and I know people that claim such a thing) YOU WILL GET FRUSTRATED WITH THIS GAME.
And this is not true - luck is not the primary issue in this game (speaking as someone who usually rolls 1's instead of 6's!!) - but it does add nicely to the flavour.

Quote:
And as a boardgame, it can be fun. Not a top-5 game on the general game ranking of the BGG if you ask me, but fun anyway.
If the BGG audience continues to prefer the dryer Euros, then it'll probably slip out of the top 10... though it will remain, as you say, fun!
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Roberto Arbelaez
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tppytel wrote:
mateybob wrote:
Quote:
2) It is Tactical, and NOT strategic.
I disagree with this.. you have a hand of say 6 cards so you have a pretty good idea of what youre going to be capable of for the next 5 or so turns. Plus you know whats in the deck and you can see what the opponent is discarding.
I would second this point (while I play C&C:A, it's the exact same principle). While the C&C system certainly isn't "strategic" in the traditional sense of a strategic wargame, good hand management is essential to playing well, and that does have an element of strategy to it. You don't always want to play your best card (tactically speaking) on a given turn. Depending on the the flow of the scenario, you may want to play a downright crappy card just to free up that spot for better cards that will have an even greater impact at a moment of opportunity in the future. While I understand why some people complain that C&C games have too strong an element of luck when they watch their best troops sitting there immobilized, this can be mitigated somewhat by good hand management.
Well, I guess it all depends on how you understand the difference between Strategy and Tactics.. I agree, you do have SOME control when holding 6 command cards. But the control you have is TACTICAL control. Not STRATEGIC control.

A strategy goes beyond 6 moves; it encompases a whole game or a significant part of one. It commits your current and future course of action to following a determined path that you believe will conduct to final victory. Tactics are a way of handling unplanned events, so you can stay the course of your strategic plans and win.

In the business world, there's a good example of the difference between strategy and tactics. You could see Strategy as the organization's "strategic planning" (and these plans usually cover 3 to 5 years or more), and tactics are "day-to-day management", daily decision making that should be aligned with the goals pursued in strategic plans, and ultimately allow the organization to meet them.


That is why you can't talk about "strategy" when you're holding 6 cards in your hand. You're playing tactically.
 
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rarbelaez wrote:
A strategy goes beyond 6 moves; it encompases a whole game or a significant part of one.
Count the number of moves is your next BattleLore game.
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Santiago Jimenez
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IMHO, Battlelore is basically two things:
- Hand Management
- Skirmish Simulator

Why? I'll explain.

Hand Management games let you know what resources you have inmediately available and you have to administer those so you can maneuver, develop a strategy and react to your oponent's actions. A good example of this is Magic The Gathering. In battlelore you know 3 to 6 cards and you with this have to develop your game, i don't say as much as to develop a strategy but you have to know what section to focus, what units you want to move, etc. The cards are very varied to allow this.

Skirmish Simulator because it doesn't have the wide scope of a war simulator or a combat simulator (this is not ASL nor risk) but is focused in a small fraction of a battle (let's remember the scenarios are called adventures) so you have to play thinking in that you don't need total anhiliation of the enemy to win, you just need to kill some units and that's it. You have to play with this in mind.


I think Battlelore is a wonderful game, is extremely fun, has a lot of replayability but as rarbelaez says you have to know what BL is what isn't to know if you gonna like it.

For me is a 9 game, is not a ten because is not multiplayer.

Bye.
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Paul DeStefano
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sajimenez wrote:
IMHO, Battlelore is basically two things:
- Hand Management
- Skirmish Simulator.
GREAT description.
 
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Roberto Arbelaez
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Hillman wrote:
My lord, this is a game, right?
I think it's rapidly turning into a cult.

An extremist cult.

A right-wing extremist cult.

Soon, they'll have a Battlelore propaganda section on FOX News... and everyone who disagrees with the "official truth" will be declared a manipulating atheist liberal intellectual, and will be verbally assaulted by Bill O'Reilly.

THE NO SPIN ZONE:
- "How dare you say luck is an important part of the game, sir?"
- "Well Bill, if I could explain..."
- "Dice and random card drawing doesn´t make a game random"
- "Well, Bill, dice ARE random and..."
- "And what is this stuff about the game not being STRATEGIC?"
- "Well, Bill, you can't develop a strategy with only 5 or 6 cards..."
- "That SHOULD be enough for any red blooded american to develop a strategy"
- "Bill, I disagree because a strategy should encompass a greater part of the game and six moves is too small a sample"
"Well, Count your moves the next time YOU PLAY sonny boy"
- "Well, I did, and it is still not a significant sample..."
- "Well, strategy is for REAL MEN, you wimp! Real men can develop strategies and solutions where you intelectual liberals only see semantics and formal definitions and problems!!!"
...

Truthfully, I don´t care.

I like the game. I don't have to pretend it's something it's not to feel better with myself. I don't think there's anything bad about enjoying a game without much strategy, or heavily dependant on luck. I like the game for what it is. It's fun that way!!! So what if it's random? So what if it's not strategic? I'm not saying it's a BAD thing! It's fun. That should be enough!

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Mark Crane
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Battlelore will never drop below #15!!! Why? Because:

1. It was purchased primarily by fans of the system who

2. Have to justify dropping $50 on the game.

Merits of the game aside, those two factors will lock it pretty high in the ratings. Days of Wonder has won the metagame, hands down!


Where does the phrase "hands down" come from anyway? Poker? Karate?
 
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craniac wrote:
Poker?
That's what I heard.
 
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generalpf wrote:
This is why I like Memoir '44 more than BattleLore/C&C:A, because no one unit is better than another (unless you consider Elite infantry or Elite armor). All units have their benefits and drawbacks. While it may not be "realistic", it's more balanced. In the other C&C games, a Red unit is pretty much always better than a Green unit.

As for the whole strategy debate, if you don't think Memoir '44 and its ilk have any strategy, let's sit down and play #16 - Saverne Gap, Vosges, and we'll see how you do without a strategy.
I have to agree.

If you are trying to play any C&C game strictly tactically without an overall strategy of where you want to go, how you want to get there and how you want to win, you are going to lose much more than your share of games and complain about the luck.

If you are only planning 4-6 turns in advance in this game, you are going to lose often against competant play.

If you think that randomness = luck, than you must not have a good understanding of one or the other of those concepts. You also must not think that Carcassonne has any skill to it at all. Or any other game that relies on randomness to provide decisions and replayability.

That being said, I am not a fan of this game. I haven't bought it and won't unless the expansions turn it into something more interesting, kind of how the Eastern expansion made Memoir '44 worth investing in. I do like the system though and think it's great unless you insist on perfect control of your units. If that's the case, please ignore this game because it won't be fun for you.
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Roberto Arbelaez
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EventHorizon wrote:
If you think that randomness = luck, than you must not have a good understanding of one or the other of those concepts. You also must not think that Carcassonne has any skill to it at all. Or any other game that relies on randomness to provide decisions and replayability.
I totally agree. Carcassonne does require skill. Lots of skill. TACTICAL Skill. So does Battlelore. In Battlelore you do plan (did I EVER said the contrary???), and your plans do win or lose the battle. You can accurately plan 5 or 6 moves ahead. But your plans are Tactical. Not Strategic.

An example:

Strategic:
Before receiving your command cards, you sit down, look at the scenario, the map, the troop positions, the terrain and then you say "I'm attacking on the right, first with archers, then light infantry, and flank with cavalry". Then, no matter what, you try and attack the right how you planned adapting to changing conditions but trying to follow your original plan as closely as possible, and every action you take aims at obtaining the strategic objectives you planned. That is strategic Playing.

Tactical
You wait to get your cards, and then use rational analysis of your hand to determine the best course of action according to the cards you got, then make a plan, and then follow it, adapting to the changing conditions. That is reactive planning (you plan as a reaction to the cards you drew - but it is planning, nonetheless). Reactive planning is also known as... You guessed it: TACTICAL PLAYING!!

Now, how do you execute a strategic plan, when random cards allowing you LIMITED decisions are coming and going all game long, and they may perfectly well be contrary to what you need? Plus dice... Unless... Hmm... You mean ther could be luck involved? God forbid! Or...wait, perhaps extrasensory perception? Wait. No. It must be sheer, pure intellectual ability. That must be it. How could I not see it?

About luck and randomness, I'm not even gonna go there... "There's no such thing as luck - I MAKE my own luck". Yeah. Right. Whatever.
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Roberto Arbelaez
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generalpf wrote:
rarbelaez wrote:
generalpf wrote:
If you think that randomness = luck, than you must not have a good understanding of one or the other of those concepts. You also must not think that Carcassonne has any skill to it at all. Or any other game that relies on randomness to provide decisions and replayability.
I totally agree. Carcassonne does require skill. Lots of skill. TACTICAL Skill. So does Battlelore. In Battlelore you do plan (did I EVER said the contrary???), and your plans do win or lose the battle. You can accurately plan 5 or 6 moves ahead. But your plans are Tactical. Not Strategic.
Dude, I didn't write that.

But I would have.
Sorry, my mistake. Wait, you would have? I take it back. ;-)
 
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J Mathews
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rarbelaez wrote:
EventHorizon wrote:
If you think that randomness = luck, than you must not have a good understanding of one or the other of those concepts. You also must not think that Carcassonne has any skill to it at all. Or any other game that relies on randomness to provide decisions and replayability.
I totally agree. Carcassonne does require skill. Lots of skill. TACTICAL Skill. So does Battlelore. In Battlelore you do plan (did I EVER said the contrary???), and your plans do win or lose the battle. You can accurately plan 5 or 6 moves ahead. But your plans are Tactical. Not Strategic.

An example:

Strategic:
Before receiving your command cards, you sit down, look at the scenario, the map, the troop positions, the terrain and then you say "I'm attacking on the right, first with archers, then light infantry, and flank with cavalry". Then, no matter what, you try and attack the right how you planned adapting to changing conditions but trying to follow your original plan as closely as possible, and every action you take aims at obtaining the strategic objectives you planned. That is strategic Playing.

Tactical
You wait to get your cards, and then use rational analysis of your hand to determine the best course of action according to the cards you got, then make a plan, and then follow it, adapting to the changing conditions. That is reactive planning (you plan as a reaction to the cards you drew - but it is planning, nonetheless). Reactive planning is also known as... You guessed it: TACTICAL PLAYING!!

Now, how do you execute a strategic plan, when random cards allowing you LIMITED decisions are coming and going all game long, and they may perfectly well be contrary to what you need? Plus dice... Unless... Hmm... You mean ther could be luck involved? God forbid! Or...wait, perhaps extrasensory perception? Wait. No. It must be sheer, pure intellectual ability. That must be it. How could I not see it?

About luck and randomness, I'm not even gonna go there... "There's no such thing as luck - I MAKE my own luck". Yeah. Right. Whatever.
Your sarcasm is unbecoming.

As far as your strategic vs tactical explaination, I totally agree with what you wrote about strategic planning. That is what I do with every scenario I play in Memoir '44. You cannot successfully play any C&C game by strictly playing tactically. You have to have an overall plan about what you want to accomplish and how you want to accomplish it. Having planned strategically, you must then figure out how to use your cards to accomplish your strategy. Thus it is a COMBINATION of tactics and strategy that brings success with this system. If you are just trying to maximize your hand each turn, you will not be as successful.

Now you might ask, what happens if you can't get the cards you need to execute your strategy the way you want? Well, you do what you normally do in non-solitare games and start adjusting your plans to the situation. Your job as player of this game is to mitigate the luck through planning and preparing your troops so that you never have hands that you can't do anything with and so that every card can help you towards your overall strategy. Just because you can't know exactly what cards you will have in your hand 4 turns from now, you do have a limited deck that you are drawing from and you will have a general idea of what you will have. Plan accordingly.

As for Carcassonne not having any strategy, that's another inaccuracy because farmers and Cathedral cities require long-term planning and again, you need to place meeples such that every tile can help you and contribute to your strategy. That takes longer-term thinking than just considering which tile you just drew. Again, good tactics must combine with solid strategy to play well. And while you are correct that Carcassonne and C&C games have are heavier on tactics than strategy, they definately have more strategy and are less tactical than a game like Puerto Rico, where planning more than two turns in advance is very difficult and choosing a strategy before playing is an excellent way to lose.

Edit- Btw, I did not say that there is no such thing as luck, I just said that randomness and luck are not the same thing.
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Kevin Smith
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I find the complaints concerning randomness and luck kind of amusing also. I own every game that's been released in the series (including supplements), and I've enjoyed every one. For newbies to the C&C genre, the four are Battle Cry, Memoir 44, C&C: Ancients, and now BattleLore.
After Battle Cry, I guess I knew *exactly* what to expect, that being the card draw and die rolling as the two biggest luck elements in the game.
But I'm okay with that.
I don't go into each new release thinking about how I'm immediately going to reduce the luck factor, because then it wouldn't be the C&C system.
I guess what I *would* be curious to know is how many of the BattleLore players have actually been surprised by the C&C system?
Maybe for a complete newbie (to the system) I can understand this.
To a point.
But not for anyone who owns *any* of the other releases. The way I look at any of the four releases is that you play them to have fun. You do the best you can with the cards you draw, and the dice you roll. You just have to realize that there are going to be times when you get screwed by one or both, and when your opponent is benefits from one or both, and you're going to lose.
But, quite frankly, that's what makes playing a C&C game so much fun.
And that concludes the lecture portion of our show.

Kevin
 
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