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Subject: Regression Calamity rss

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Brian McCarty
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See pic here: http://img3.trictrac.net/generate/default_2048/55fac47eca8c9...

Trying to figure out the iconography.
"E" means the East deck
I'm guessing the "9" means it is in with gold / ivory deck.
Not sure what the "5-9, 11" means.

Brian
(First to post in the MC forums!)
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Andy K.
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Probably something to do with the amount of unit points you have to lose. Possibly "11 unit points to primary victim; victim distributes from 5-9 unit points to X other players."
 
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Håkan König
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N9IWP wrote:
See pic here:

Not sure what the "5-9, 11" means.
Number of players? I think they said something about different calamities being available depending on number of players.
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Brian McCarty
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ACK ACK wrote:
Probably something to do with the amount of unit points you have to lose. Possibly "11 unit points to primary victim; victim distributes from 5-9 unit points to X other players."


The facebook page says that the result is go down one on the AST, so that isn't it. Player numbers seems most likely (but why not in a 10 player game, or 12-18?)

Brian
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John Rodriguez
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N9IWP wrote:


The facebook page says that the result is go down one on the AST, so that isn't it. Player numbers seems most likely (but why not in a 10 player game, or 12-18?)

Brian


You are going down the right path.

Lets just say that in building the various combinations of cards to work with so many different number of players we had to get rather creative. Once you go to build the commodity card decks it will start to make sense.
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David Etherton
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If I'm understanding the (old, alpha) rules properly, everybody moves up one space every turn assuming they've managed to meet the prerequisites (minimum number of cities for some ages, or minimum tech level, etc).

Does it ever happen in practice that the game is exactly N turns long where N is the number of columns in the AST? Or are people routinely missing changes to advance because of missing requirements, or events like this, etc?

-Dave
 
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John Rodriguez
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etherton wrote:
If I'm understanding the (old, alpha) rules properly, everybody moves up one space every turn assuming they've managed to meet the prerequisites (minimum number of cities for some ages, or minimum tech level, etc).

Does it ever happen in practice that the game is exactly N turns long where N is the number of columns in the AST? Or are people routinely missing changes to advance because of missing requirements, or events like this, etc?

-Dave


It's certainly possible that one player never misses a step on the AST and the game finishes "on time". However it's a safe bet to expect one or two extra turns.

Another way to play it is to announce that the game will be over on turn "X". I've known some players to play the original games like that and I can't see any reason why it shouldn't work - it's just likely that some of the civ advances that are really useful in the end game are more likely to be avoided or not used.
 
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David Etherton
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Thanks John. Having never played the original (it was difficult to obtain and had 80's era component quality) I'm just trying to understand how the game works and whether I'd have a chance in hell of getting my copy played.

Is most of the time spent in the trading phase? I liked the suggestions I saw about setting time limits to keep it from dragging on. A phone app with a timer that resets to (say) 3 minutes after any time anybody completes a trade might speed things up nicely.

-Dave
 
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David Debien
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Velusion wrote:
etherton wrote:
If I'm understanding the (old, alpha) rules properly, everybody moves up one space every turn assuming they've managed to meet the prerequisites (minimum number of cities for some ages, or minimum tech level, etc).

Does it ever happen in practice that the game is exactly N turns long where N is the number of columns in the AST? Or are people routinely missing changes to advance because of missing requirements, or events like this, etc?

-Dave


It's certainly possible that one player never misses a step on the AST and the game finishes "on time". However it's a safe bet to expect one or two extra turns.

Another way to play it is to announce that the game will be over on turn "X". I've known some players to play the original games like that and I can't see any reason why it shouldn't work - it's just likely that some of the civ advances that are really useful in the end game are more likely to be avoided or not used.


It really depends on the group. I have played games where some players never miss a step on the AST, but with aggressive groups, this should never happen. There are simply too many ways to go after the leaders and slow them down at very little cost to the aggressors.
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John Rodriguez
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etherton wrote:
Is most of the time spent in the trading phase? I liked the suggestions I saw about setting time limits to keep it from dragging on. A phone app with a timer that resets to (say) 3 minutes after any time anybody completes a trade might speed things up nicely.

-Dave


I think you have to go stricter than that. We found 10-12 minutes works fairly good with the option for everyone to finish early. At the end of the game it's pretty common for one or two trades to be cut off in the middle. That's part of the fun - trying to beat the closing bell. It makes a large game feel like an stock exchange floor!

There is a lot of desire to get rid of calamities as you acquire them so if you don't set a fixed time frame you run into the problem of calamities just going around in circles and the trade phase taking forever.

Remember usually for at least one or two players the trading period will be very short sometimes - perhaps not existent. They will just have downtime.
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Brian McCarty
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Trading is one time sink - another is dealing with calamities.
They obviously adjusted calamities in this version - don't know how much faster they are.

Brian
 
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David Etherton
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N9IWP wrote:
Trading is one time sink - another is dealing with calamities.
They obviously adjusted calamities in this version - don't know how much faster they are.


Civil War in particular (old alpha rules again) looked pretty heinous given the amount of rulebook space given to one card. Guess it's pointless to speculate much further until if/when the new rulebook is released.

-Dave
 
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John Rodriguez
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We tried to clean up the calamities section as much as possible - however it does still take some time. The minor calamities that are introduced with a certain number of players are all resolved simultaneously so they don't really add any time. The biggest thing we tried to do was simplify the resolution of a lot of the more convoluted ones. You'll find yourself having to look them up a lot less and the many handy cheatsheets provided will make it go even faster.
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Lane Taylor
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I've always found the biggest time suck to be purchasing civilization advances. Even with civ calculators and aids, it just takes a long time to add up points, figure out what you can afford, etc.

And we have always played with a fixed number of turns, using the unused AST track, and when it reaches the end, game is over (16 turns, I think). Never had anyone keep up with it, but our groups were always good about pouncing on obvious leaders.
 
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David desJardins
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Wylann wrote:
I've always found the biggest time suck to be purchasing civilization advances. Even with civ calculators and aids, it just takes a long time to add up points, figure out what you can afford, etc.


Also, the more players you have, the more inconvenient it is to check other people's calculations. But, if you don't check them, then the people who happen to make a lot of mistakes, will also happen to win a lot.
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John Rodriguez
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Wylann wrote:
I've always found the biggest time suck to be purchasing civilization advances. Even with civ calculators and aids, it just takes a long time to add up points, figure out what you can afford, etc.


We have added credit tokens to the game - this means as you acquire your Advances you will see your credit token pool increase. So if you want to know how many civics credits you have you just check your credits sitting in front of you. I've had people keep thier credits in larger denomination tokens to know exactly what they have at a glance and I've had people hold smaller denominations so they ca stack up their credits in piles to assign them every turn to each advance. Whatever floats your boat (as long as there are enough tokens in the pool).

The more players you add the more you can do this phase simultaneously as well.

It still takes some time to do the math - but I think the tokens help a bunch (especially for new players).
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Flo de Haan
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Wylann wrote:
I've always found the biggest time suck to be purchasing civilization advances. Even with civ calculators and aids, it just takes a long time to add up points, figure out what you can afford, etc.


In addition to John...

We added player aids that help you calculate and choose your purchases during the game. If you think purchasing sucks due to the time it takes, teach yourself and your group to use these during the game, not only when you have to choose during acquisition phase.

Also, when playing a larger group, I assume you have a larger (public) room, or playing-clubhouse or whatever. We added the suggestion to split the shop into two. This reduces queues of course.

Remember... we have 51 stacks of Civilization Advances now... That requires a table alone.
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