Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
31 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Super Dungeon Explore: Forgotten King» Forums » General

Subject: What are your thoughts on Legends? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Vadim Golembo
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, at this point (depending on the price) this KS is an auto back.
Here's why:
I really like something about this company.
Maybe it's the, no exclusives, fun for everyone policy.
Maybe it that they listen and modify the rules.
Folks complained about the explore deck, so they said there putting more reason to search cards into the 2.0 version.

What I'm hoping for...
Clean non fiddle gameplay (which this game mostly does provide).
A campaign system I could use in arcade mode would be AMAZING!!!
Maybe have the any new cards available if folks don't want the new minis.
Maybe fix the monster clumping in arcade mode.

I haven't really put all my thoughts together on this Legends thing.
What are folks thinking about this?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Barrett
United States
Lake Forest Park
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
N0mE wrote:
So, at this point (depending on the price) this KS is an auto back.
Here's why:
I really like something about this company.
Maybe it's the, no exclusives, fun for everyone policy.
Maybe it that they listen and modify the rules.
Folks complained about the explore deck, so they said there putting more reason to search cards into the 2.0 version.

What I'm hoping for...
Clean non fiddle gameplay (which this game mostly does provide).
A campaign system I could use in arcade mode would be AMAZING!!!
Maybe have the any new cards available if folks don't want the new minis.
Maybe fix the monster clumping in arcade mode.

I haven't really put all my thoughts together on this Legends thing.
What are folks thinking about this?


I've been interested in this gamer after backing Ninja All Stars so I'm going to jump in at this point.

I think they've really improved their mini's quality since the first edition SDE.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David O'Connell
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Although I love the incredibly simple KS level that Ninja Division had the FK Kickstarter, I hope they have a few more options this time around. As an owner of 1st ed SDE set, I might not want to get the box set again, but I am interested in Legends and Midnight Tower. As there may be a few in this position, I'm hoping that they have a tier to reflect this. I guess it just means waiting to see what this Kickstarter will bring, if the models and cards will be significantly different, or if an alternative tier will be offered.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
They've already confirmed there'll be one pledge level with SDE V2.0, MT and Legend ands one with just MT and Legends. Though with V2.0 being a smaller box I feel myself getting tempted to pick it up anyway for some models and extra Treasure Loot cards!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicholas Kelsch
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
One of the issues which I think will eventually need to address is the METAGAME of the heroes in regards to balance. Unlike other games where heroes are all similar except for aminor rule variation, each SDE hero is drastically unique. This leads to a higher chance of imbalance and every added hero complicates things.

Right now, the imbalances are basically your difficulty level, but if they plan to do a campaign system, I would really like for them to maybe move away from individual named heroes, and go to a class system to limit the need for 15 new heroes per campaign and drastically widening the imbalance.

They can also then make new heroes with existing rules simply by gender swapping or something. I would rather a dozen new models for existing rules than 15 new heroes mucking up the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't see them ever erasing the diversity of heroes. There are already 49 heroes available for SDE, and the wide variety of their abilities is part of the fun. Balance can suck it.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vadim Golembo
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mlinhardt73 wrote:
I went all-in with the Consul Everything bundle last round and I'll most likely do the same this time. Zero exclusives and simple pledge tiers is fantastic and I hope they continue that trend with the upcoming campaign. While I'm willing to go this 2nd round with them I must say my expectations are a bit higher this time. The campaign system needs to be fantastic and the variant rules for shorter sessions need to be tight. Basically this is where Soda Pop/NinjaD have the opportunity to show me why I backed SDE instead of Arcadia Quest.

yeah, this one is important to me. I will not back anymore Zombicide for various reasons that are too lengthy to go into here. I'm hoping that Soda Pop really puts thought & work into this prior to taking all the money.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick S
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mlinhardt73 wrote:
Basically this is where Soda Pop/NinjaD have the opportunity to show me why I backed SDE instead of Arcadia Quest.


I was able to back both last time.
After playing them both, if I have to choose, Arcadia Quest will win by a landslide.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Lanham
Australia
flag msg tools
mb
bigblock75 wrote:
mlinhardt73 wrote:
Basically this is where Soda Pop/NinjaD have the opportunity to show me why I backed SDE instead of Arcadia Quest.


I was able to back both last time.
After playing them both, if I have to choose, Arcadia Quest will win by a landslide.


oooo tough call.

i love the AQ minis, bloody awesome, but i much prefer the dungeon crawl of SDE over AQ's gameplay, it's just soooo much like old skool dungeon crawler videogames but on the board instead.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I didn't back AQ on principle because it was CMON (I suspect I have similar reasons to Vadim with Zombicide!) but from what I know of the two games apart from the style they're actually quite different in terms of how they play?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick S
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, AQ and SDE are 100% different games.

Jonah, I understand where you are coming from and was on the fence for AQ for the exact same reasons(I know you have read one or two of my CMON rants).
I got an EB during the last couple of days.

I took a step back, looked at the whole picture, and decided I didn't want to deprive myself of their awesome games because I didn't like their business decisions.
I am very happy I backed that game it is one of my favorites.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicholas Kelsch
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
jonahmaul wrote:
I didn't back AQ on principle because it was CMON (I suspect I have similar reasons to Vadim with Zombicide!) but from what I know of the two games apart from the style they're actually quite different in terms of how they play?


AQ is very much classic AMERITRASH board game. As a raw game, it is very easy to pick up and very fun and quick to play. The core rules are solid and they just skinned it with a chibi look.

SDE seems to want to be a Dungeon Simulator now... In SDE 1.0 It kinda felt like it wanted to be a one vs one, or many vs one competitive game where both consul and heroes could pick what they wanted and skill would decide the balance. Sadly since SDE didn't catch fire, usually the person who owned SDE would be forced to play consul and often could easily dominate the newer Heroes so it lost virtually all competitive appeal.

Now the imbalance is so out of whack, it is basically an experience simulator because if played competitively, both sides have insta-win heroes and monsters available to them and insta-lose landminds. So it is more about 'doing your best with what you have'. That concept turns a lot of people off who want to play to win and not simply experience a game.

It would be like playing monopoly with the goal of building up all the properties equally through cooperation and the dog gets 500$ for passing go instead of 200$. Experiencing the rolling of the dice and the fun of the game, not trying to destroy utterly your opponent.

I feel like Ninja All-Stars is more of a game which will share a market with AQ due to the competitive nature and hopefully reasonably good balance.

Right now, the hole in the market is a Gamemaster-less dungeoncrawl. Everyone wants it, no one has delivered it perfectly. IMHO, Myth got close and may have it when they deliver the second KS. A few other KS got really close too. This can be SDE's chance to try to really nail down that market via a questing system, a campaign system and addressing the imbalance (or at least adding difficulty levels to admit the imbalance).

Edit: as for CMoN... They make good games. (or they buy out good games others made and produce them in a nice package) The way they have handled exclusives are reasonably good because they are basically hero skins which don't really impact gameplay and most of their games sell well at retail without exclusives and they simply are not missed. I can play Zombicide a dozen times and never have a degraded experience because I don't have the sheldon cooper or ron burgandy survivor. I would rather have the option of exclusives I don't need over 'always available content' which is practically required like SDE.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nkelsch wrote:
Now the imbalance is so out of whack, it is basically an experience simulator because if played competitively, both sides have insta-win heroes and monsters available to them and insta-lose landminds. So it is more about 'doing your best with what you have'. That concept turns a lot of people off who want to play to win and not simply experience a game.

It would be like playing monopoly with the goal of building up all the properties equally through cooperation and the dog gets 500$ for passing go instead of 200$. Experiencing the rolling of the dice and the fun of the game, not trying to destroy utterly your opponent.

If you're concerned about trying to create a competitive team-building environment for SDE, it seems that tiers, point systems or some kind of ban list is the way to go. There's no point in trying to undo the progress that the game has made.

I don't quite understand the collection of your overall points, as the solo/coop Arcade mode does not have the same competitive issue as Classic mode.

I doubt that the explosion of solo/coop dungeon crawls is ever going to satisfy any kind of consensus on The Perfect Holy Dungeon Crawl. SDE did not begin life as a dungeon crawl and it's unlikely to wander its way into success in that field. Plenty of adherents have their favorites already, and the pilgrims still in search of the dream will continue to chase from Dungeons & Dragons: The Legend of Drizzt Board Game to Legends of Andor to Myth to Dungeon Saga: Dwarf King's Quest to Myth 2: This Time With Playable Rules to Gloomhaven to whatever the new messiah will be next year.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicholas Kelsch
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tumorous wrote:

If you're concerned about trying to create a competitive team-building environment for SDE, it seems that tiers, point systems or some kind of ban list is the way to go. There's no point in trying to undo the progress that the game has made.

I don't quite understand the collection of your overall points, as the solo/coop Arcade mode does not have the same competitive issue as Classic mode.


What you call 'progress' some of us call sloppy, directionless stumbling. It hasn't moved forward, it has just bloated in size and scope without really making it clear where we were going with this 'progress'.

They had a game type and completely bailed on what was good about it and went 'somewhere else' with no clear plan on what they want to be. And the gross imbalance which requires basically ARMY COMP to make the game functional when playing with multiple people ins't progress.

And the Arcade mode is just a half-formed afterthought which is barley functional which feels like they ran out of time before they had to fulfill the KS, which makes me wonder if we will see some improvements or re-vamps.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nathan Ehlers
United States
Cleveland
Ohio
flag msg tools
I love you!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nkelsch wrote:
tumorous wrote:

If you're concerned about trying to create a competitive team-building environment for SDE, it seems that tiers, point systems or some kind of ban list is the way to go. There's no point in trying to undo the progress that the game has made.

I don't quite understand the collection of your overall points, as the solo/coop Arcade mode does not have the same competitive issue as Classic mode.


What you call 'progress' some of us call sloppy, directionless stumbling. It hasn't moved forward, it has just bloated in size and scope without really making it clear where we were going with this 'progress'.

They had a game type and completely bailed on what was good about it and went 'somewhere else' with no clear plan on what they want to be. And the gross imbalance which requires basically ARMY COMP to make the game functional when playing with multiple people ins't progress.

And the Arcade mode is just a half-formed afterthought which is barley functional which feels like they ran out of time before they had to fulfill the KS, which makes me wonder if we will see some improvements or re-vamps.


This post is nonsense. The release of FK has both clarified the SDE system (stripping away a lot of the junk -- eg. the consul board) and SPM's business model. They now have a release schedule, business plan, and the future seems pretty bright. Based on how much they made in that kickstarter and how much they're currently selling, there are more people happy with the future than not.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicholas Kelsch
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sirgalin wrote:

This post is nonsense. The release of FK has both clarified the SDE system (stripping away a lot of the junk -- eg. the consul board) and SPM's business model. They now have a release schedule, business plan, and the future seems pretty bright. Based on how much they made in that kickstarter and how much they're currently selling, there are more people happy with the future than not.


Not sure you can equate the success of selling vaporware to the enjoyment and quality of that vaporware. SDE succeeded on speculative support which was carried by the design of the figures and less on the actual concrete rules.

Even in these threads, most of the people who are ready to all-in are because of figures alone. Virtually everyone seems to want or expect changes to the rules in some fashion and there has been a documented history of the sodapop people not having the best rules sense or experience. (Go read up on the NAS core dice mechanic threads) And one of the major issues is no one can agree on what changes need to happen because no one knows what kind of game this needs to be!

This is where the second KS is going to be interesting. While people love to hold up the KS1 as 'nothing needs changing' the real metric is if the people who had problems with KS1's rule quality have shelved or divested themselves and if those people will return for KS2.

Of course people spin things with propaganda, but many companies have seen a strong KS1, a poor quality release happen, and then KS2 is drastically less successful because people have lost faith. It then gets spun as 'we intended for this to be a smaller KS' or some bullcrap to make it look like they were not looking for another million dollars.

The companies who deliver KS1, have a shaky launch and then have a successful KS2 are the ones who fix the issues before going to KS2, which clearly won't happen as the creators seem to like the directionless, imbalanced, sluggish rules as they are now.

I think Ninja Division is not very good at managing stretches, and I suspect they will have the same stalls and failures as Bunnies vs Zombies and NAS. I also think they won't have nearly the same number of people returning as SDE TFK did not catch on with a lot of the boardgame community and is a shelfwarmer for lots of groups. People who are happy with SDE are usually people who want to experience the miniatures on a table top and are less worried about rules, not play a quality game with tight gameplay and those people will be back as the Beer and Pretzels audience.

I guess we will see how they do, especially if they are head to head with AQ, which after hitting retail and getting a solid reputation as a great versus game will capture a lot of the boardgame community.

The same reason KS1 numbers will be seen to validate rules which didn't exist at the time of pledging is the same way weak numbers will validate 'success' in KS2.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig H
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Have to admit, it is getting a bit frustrating. I finished painting SDE just in time to get new rules with FK in the mail. Now that I have painted up some pets and creeps, I'm hearing that new rules are on the way again.

Now sure, a lot of this is self-inflicted, no Gamer Police are making me use only the latest rules nor even that I can only play with painted figures - but it's still annoying.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CraigH wrote:
Have to admit, it is getting a bit frustrating. I finished painting SDE just in time to get new rules with FK in the mail. Now that I have painted up some pets and creeps, I'm hearing that new rules are on the way again.

Now sure, a lot of this is self-inflicted, no Gamer Police are making me use only the latest rules nor even that I can only play with painted figures - but it's still annoying.

There has been no indication from Soda Pop that any rules changes are coming in the new Kickstarter. A redo of the original base set to bring it fully up to FK in one box; a new level expansion; and the campaign/roleplaying rules of Legends.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank Franco
Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
Personally I like the new rules and think the "problems" have been WAY WAY overstated.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
CraigH wrote:
Have to admit, it is getting a bit frustrating. I finished painting SDE just in time to get new rules with FK in the mail. Now that I have painted up some pets and creeps, I'm hearing that new rules are on the way again.


As Matt states, they're not rules. They're just the FK rules with the errata included.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lunar Sol
msg tools
mb
I'm pretty excited for the KS, personally, but I wasn't involved in FK. I hated the 1st edition of the game, but I've had a lot of fun with Arcade mode. Adding some structure to multiple games would be a huge motivator to cycling through the variety of bosses and options now available. To me the game has really morphed away from the competitive brawl it wasn't ever really good at and into more of a toolbox that plays much closer to its strengths.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vadim Golembo
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I play on arcade mode mostly.
I'd love if the books added to the toolbox so folks can make really good campaigns.
I don't think they have said so but I wonder if non-square tiles of various size are going to be offered?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
that Matt
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
I'm a quitter. I come from a long line of quitters. It's amazing I'm here at all.
badge
I can feel bits of my brain falling away like wet cake.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
N0mE wrote:
I play on arcade mode mostly.
I'd love if the books added to the toolbox so folks can make really good campaigns.
I don't think they have said so but I wonder if non-square tiles of various size are going to be offered?

No details yet, but they did write this in the initial announcement:

New smaller dungeon rooms and hallways make their debut, increasing the diversity of dungeon layouts.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonah Rees
Wales
Cardiff
South Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
LunarSol wrote:
Adding some structure to multiple games would be a huge motivator to cycling through the variety of bosses and options now available.


You know what, I've made inserts for all my boxes now to store my models and we still have trouble deciding what to use yet I never thought about what a great idea it would be to use different monsters/bosses for each linked adventure. I generally like to stay in theme so the prospect of having themed linked dungeons is a great one!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nkelsch wrote:
SDE seems to want to be a Dungeon Simulator now... In SDE 1.0 It kinda felt like it wanted to be a one vs one, or many vs one competitive game where both consul and heroes could pick what they wanted and skill would decide the balance. Sadly since SDE didn't catch fire, usually the person who owned SDE would be forced to play consul and often could easily dominate the newer Heroes so it lost virtually all competitive appeal.


After following various boardgames with miniatures (hi Artipia!), I'm getting to the point where I'm saying, "Back games from game companies, back miniatures from miniatures companies." We have definite exceptions to this (eg. CMON, Cthuhlu Wars), but anyone with too many games in the game closet and too many miniatures to paint might as well be a little more picky (but still active in researching) a KS project!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.