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Star Wars: Armada» Forums » General

Subject: How many fighters are enough? rss

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Penguin Bonaparte
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I've only managed to get to play a few games so far, but will be able to make it to a Sullust event and so would really appreciate any advice!

So far I'm thinking of taking this:
Victory II + Tarkin + Gunnery Team + Leading Shots
Victory I + Chiraneau + Point Defense Reroute
Then 4x Ties, Howlrunner, Mauler Mithel, and a single advanced squad.
Missions are Contested Outpost, Advanced Gunnery, and Intel Sweep

The plan is to have the Victory 1 a little ahead with the fighters staying close so that if I run into enemy fighters I can use Chiraneau to make Mithel deal automatic damage and the single advanced squadron's escort keyword will mean they can't attack Mithel right away. Gunnery Team will also let me get multiple front-arc shots from the VII, and if I'm correct about how it works, I can just dump a blue die, maybe one that didn't do anything useful, to re-roll my attack *after* I see the results, correct?

From some of my learning games I thought I needed to fear Luke and some of the other Rebel fighters, but reading forums makes it seem like I shouldn't bring any of my own, which confuses me a bit. Should I really just drop my squadrons and put in a Gladiator instead? With the VSDs only having 1 blue die to use, I'm a little afraid of just getting swarmed by fighters I can't take out.
 
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Eric Engstrom
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The best answer to this questions is the least useful:

Find out what the people who play at that store like to run and counter it.

Of course, how do you do that?



Honest, many players run very low squadron builds. I run medium to high squadron builds. I have never lost to a list that had less than 3 squadrons.


The biggest middle-ground advice I'd give would be to yank Mauler and Chiraneau. Add Vader and some Assault Concussion Missiles.

If that's too many points, remove point defense. You won't need it with your fighters out there.


 
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Peter O
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You need to differentiate fighters (anti-squadron) and bombers (anti-ship). X-wings, TIE fighters, interceptors, advanced and A-wings are all in the fighter category. TIE Bombers, Y-wings, and TIE Bombers are all in the bomber category. If your opponents bring all fighters, your best bet is an all ship build. If they bring bombers, your best bet is having fighters. If they go no squadrons, your best bet is bombers.

So if you know anything about the meta, choose from that. Unfortunately Imperials don't have anything like the B or Y wings which aren't too bad in a pinch against enemy fighters.

Someone recently reported out of 9 in their tournament only 3 people brought squadrons.

I'd suggest running as many ships as you can with a Rhymer ball and no fighter screen. If you're absolutely petrafired of enemy Bombers, bring one of two Adv to tie them down. You don't have to kill. Just delay them till they're useless.

If you think lots of people will bring fighters and only fighters, you could always go all ships (but 4 is the preferred number).

If I were going to a place completely unknown, I'd probably go rebel and bring 2 AFM2s and a CR-90 with A-wings (the second place Gencon list or there abouts). A-wings are the most versatile fighter out there. Okay against both squadrons and ships with great speed. The space whales are beefy and counter the gladiators well.

The list you have above will get eaten by an all-ship list. They'll take out your carrier first depleting your squadrons capabilities even further then mop up your second VSD at which point your fighters go poof. You've been tabled. They will simply ignore your fighters. The VGGG lists love to prey on lists like yours.
 
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Yeah, I suppose the anti-fighter upgrade will be a waste. So even if I take some fighters, the same goes for the Mauler/Chiraneau combo despite it being rally cool?

I don't really know what people are going to be flying, and I think a few will be as green as me.

Would I be better served with Tarkin on a VSDII with Gunnery Team, an empty VSDI, a Gladiator 1, Howlrunner, and 3 Ties? It seems like if I'm going to bother with a Gladiator I need to use the Demolisher title. And is it worth even bothering to put in just a couple of fighters?

I've got one of each expansion, and kind of like the idea of having 2 VSDs of some sort out there at the very least.

If I were to go ship only, how about this then?
VSDII with Warlord (to help if I do need to shoot fighters) Tarken, Gunnery Team
VSDI with Gunnery Team
Gladiator II with Demolisher and Engine Techs.
 
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Peter O
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The most important thing is to take a list you will have fun with. So don't let me talk you out of a list you really want to do. I say this because you really want to focus on fighters, so perhaps just focus on fighters.

A focus on fighters is making the metagame call that you will run into enough lists to make the fighter purchase worth it. So if enough people come with bombers to fight the all ship lists, and you take advantage of lists that bring bombers with few to no fighters. Of course this shift in meta may not take place and you face some lists that you have a disadvantage against.

So then the question becomes how do we take your preferred style and not throw it out, but just up its game vs the no ship lists.
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stephen biggs
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PenguinBonaparte wrote:
the Mauler/Chiraneau combo despite it being rally cool?

Mauler is cool, however, not really cost-effective.
The Combo requires that Tie-advanced to keep Mauler alive. So it's a total of 37 points. None of which are effective against ships. Your also running Howlrunner & 4-Ties. another 48pts of dogfighters. If you get a match against someone with 100pts in B/X/Y-wings you might need all that firepower. I doubt anything less would.

Try Howlrunner, 2*Tie-Interceptors & a Tie. The interceptor's speed-5 means they can stand-off A-wings. With Howlrunner just far enough back that A-wings cannot reach her in 1 turn. Standard Tie's speed-4 allows A-wings to get an initial attack on them. If the A-wings are being "aggressive" Interceptors get the first attack. Howlrunner & swarm both boost the dice of the interceptors counterattack. Any A-wing damaged by a counter attack should be an easy kill for the standard TIE.
 
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Peter O
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I'd suggest the following list.

Motti
VSD-1
VSD-1
GSD-2 Demolisher
2x Bomber
5x TIE

I'd advise against imp aces as they are not cost effective vs ships. I'm not a fan of howlrunner even vs squadrons. I think her x-wing reputation keeps her going in Armada.

Unless you're crashing in your GSD and then back out, you don't really need the engine tech. I do recommend Demolisher because it makes the game easier for you. Something important in a long tournament. Also with that title on a GSD-2 if you need help vs enemy squadrons you can fire on squadrons, move, then fire on the same squadrons out of a different arc.

I do like gunnery teams, but they compete with your squadrons.

Keep your bombers semi close. Don't send them out to max range. Instead, place them where they should get a couple of shots in, then one of your vessels gets close enough to reposition them quickly. With only 2, they are not a main strike weapon. What they do is help your lead VSD focus fire something.
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Penguin Bonaparte
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I'm a bit disappointed to see that the squadrons aren't the big part of the game I thought they'd be, but I'm not wedded to this list. If I show up and get stomped or my fighters have nothing to do it'll not be fun. I'm just trying to figure out what the options are. It seems like I need a third ship, which'll have to be a gladiator, using up almost all my points. There isn't any point in taking a token fighter or two then so I'm a lot better off spending those last few points on things like the Demolisher and gunnery team, correct?

With 3 ships, if I do run into enemy squadrons, I'll be able to either outrun them because they can't move and shoot on the same turn unless there's an intensive combo going on with Talar Adan, or I just ignore them and should be able to blow up enough enemy ships that their damage contribution won't be a huge deal, even if there are some bombers mixed in? Thank you all again for the advice here!

*Edit* Didn't see the latest reply. Are un-upgraded VSD1s going to be all that effective? I'd thought I needed at least one of them to be a II to get better range on my attacks. In my first few games I got a lot of good use out of Tarkin and all his tokens, so is Motti a significant downgrade there? The hull seems nice but it could still be gone in an instant.
 
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stephen biggs
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If your opponent has maximum points in squadrons & you have none. You have their ships out-gunned 3-to-2. And you never need to issue a squadron command.
PenguinBonaparte wrote:

With 3 ships, if I do run into enemy squadrons, I'll be able to either outrun them because they can't move and shoot on the same turn

That's usually a workable tactic. Try not to end a ships move on top of enemy bombers.

PenguinBonaparte wrote:

or I just ignore them and should be able to blow up enough enemy ships that their damage contribution won't be a huge deal

Works against any Imperial Fighter. And against X-wings.

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Peter O
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Don't give up hope on squadrons. Part of what is going on is the metagame is still early. Many new people do what you do and go heavy on fighters. If no one is playing enough bombers then those fighter points are not really needed. Then all ship lists are able to take advantage. In addition it seems many people only bought a single fighter pack, which doesn't provide enough bombers to be a real threat.

As the meta develops it should correct itself. In the meantime, the imperials will be getting the firespray soon which will provide them with a fighter bomber that should allow them to hedge their bets. I.e they can have a squadron that threatens both ships and holds okay vs fighters.

We also need more players to run B-wings and Y-wings. But I'm guessing you're an imperial player so that doesn't help you.
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Peter O
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VSD2s are fine. Motti and Tarkin are both good as well. Obviously you would need to cut something for them. These decisions should come down to your play style and what you're comfortable with.
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Eric Engstrom
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XAos wrote:
PenguinBonaparte wrote:
the Mauler/Chiraneau combo despite it being rally cool?

Mauler is cool, however, not really cost-effective.
The Combo requires that Tie-advanced to keep Mauler alive. So it's a total of 37 points. None of which are effective against ships. Your also running Howlrunner & 4-Ties. another 48pts of dogfighters. If you get a match against someone with 100pts in B/X/Y-wings you might need all that firepower. I doubt anything less would.

Try Howlrunner, 2*Tie-Interceptors & a Tie. The interceptor's speed-5 means they can stand-off A-wings. With Howlrunner just far enough back that A-wings cannot reach her in 1 turn. Standard Tie's speed-4 allows A-wings to get an initial attack on them. If the A-wings are being "aggressive" Interceptors get the first attack. Howlrunner & swarm both boost the dice of the interceptors counterattack. Any A-wing damaged by a counter attack should be an easy kill for the standard TIE.


Yes. This is where I really think Howlrunner shines.

Interceptors have 4 attack dice and swarm (reroll). They counter 2 with swarm (reroll). Howlrunner next to them gives them 5 attacks and swarm, and 3 counter and swarm. It's super domination.

And she has a scatter.


However, a few lucky attacks and she's toast. (Or, for a one shot, a flight controllers powered X-wing that is lucky enough to get hit hit hit acc acc, but that's hard.)
 
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Awesome, thanks! If it's not terrible then I think I'll go for Tarkin and the gunnery teams, following your advice about the engine techs. I think I can use the VSDI up in front to give Tarkin on the II some distance and use the Devastator to try to swing around from the side. If I hit a swarm of corvettes and nebulons, then I'll try to advance together so I can concentrate fire and not present any easy gaps to get through, maybe bringing the gladiator around the rear. And I'll just ignore those fighters.
 
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Peter O
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I don't know if you follow the FFG forums, but we're starting to see reports of more success with bomber lists. So get a read on your local meta the best you can. I'd hate to convince you to go all ship with no squadrons right when everyone shifts to Bombers and then wipes you out. Have at least a couple TIE Adv to tie up enemy bombers for a few rounds.
 
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Heh, I originally asked on the FFG forums but no one responded. I guess I could go down to just a gunnery team on the VSDII and the title on the GII so as to have 2 advanceds. I'm not expecting to be taking home an ISD or anything, just don't want to drive all the way out there just to get my teeth kicked in. It's a bit over an hour away and I just played X-wing there for the first time Saturday, so I probably won't know much until I get there, but maybe the pre-game chatter will be enough that I can adjust without seeming like I'm scouting or doing something sketchy. I really do appreciate all the advice.
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David Barlowe
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PenguinBonaparte wrote:
Heh, I originally asked on the FFG forums but no one responded. I guess I could go down to just a gunnery team on the VSDII and the title on the GII so as to have 2 advanceds. I'm not expecting to be taking home an ISD or anything, just don't want to drive all the way out there just to get my teeth kicked in. It's a bit over an hour away and I just played X-wing there for the first time Saturday, so I probably won't know much until I get there, but maybe the pre-game chatter will be enough that I can adjust without seeming like I'm scouting or doing something sketchy. I really do appreciate all the advice.


Interesting discussion.

Have fun, please share with us how you do!

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stephen biggs
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PenguinBonaparte wrote:
I've only managed to get to play a few games so far, but will be able to make it to a Sullust event and so would really appreciate any advice!

So far I'm thinking of taking this:
Victory II + Tarkin + Gunnery Team + Leading Shots
Victory I + Chiraneau + Point Defense Reroute


With Tarkin as admiral, I'd put defense/weapons Liaisons on each of the VSD's. It lets you pick the command you want, regardless of what's on your pre-planned command dial.

VSD ship titles are very cost effective. I'd use a ship title on each VSD.


bungeeboy wrote:

However, a few lucky attacks and she's toast. (Or, for a one shot, a flight controllers powered X-wing that is lucky enough to get hit hit hit acc acc, but that's hard.)


True, Wedge commanded by Adar Talon is the best example of an anti-howlrunner squadron in wave-1.
 
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Reaper Steve
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tranenturm wrote:
I'd suggest the following list.

Motti
VSD-1
VSD-1
GSD-2 Demolisher
2x Bomber
5x TIE

I'd advise against imp aces as they are not cost effective vs ships. I'm not a fan of howlrunner even vs squadrons. I think her x-wing reputation keeps her going in Armada.

Unless you're crashing in your GSD and then back out, you don't really need the engine tech. I do recommend Demolisher because it makes the game easier for you. Something important in a long tournament. Also with that title on a GSD-2 if you need help vs enemy squadrons you can fire on squadrons, move, then fire on the same squadrons out of a different arc.

I do like gunnery teams, but they compete with your squadrons.

Keep your bombers semi close. Don't send them out to max range. Instead, place them where they should get a couple of shots in, then one of your vessels gets close enough to reposition them quickly. With only 2, they are not a main strike weapon. What they do is help your lead VSD focus fire something.


Your list intrigues me...

I have a few games under my belt playing:
VSD-1
Screed
Chiraneau

GSD-1
Engine Techs
ACM

GSD-1
Engine Techs
ACM
Demolisher

Rhymer
TIE Bomber
TIE Advanced

I like having the VSD run the mini-Rhymer ball. Chiraneau is there for insurance (freedom of maneuver), which I haven't required yet, but I'm reluctant to drop it. I'm not sure if I'm getting max utility out of the engine techs on the GSDs. Part of me thinks they just let me race into trouble, and not take a more appropriate command at the same time.

So, I'm tempted to try your list, but I may only get one more practice game before this weekend's event.
 
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Peter O
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Reaper Steve wrote:
tranenturm wrote:
I'd suggest the following list.

Motti
VSD-1
VSD-1
GSD-2 Demolisher
2x Bomber
5x TIE

I'd advise against imp aces as they are not cost effective vs ships. I'm not a fan of howlrunner even vs squadrons. I think her x-wing reputation keeps her going in Armada.

Unless you're crashing in your GSD and then back out, you don't really need the engine tech. I do recommend Demolisher because it makes the game easier for you. Something important in a long tournament. Also with that title on a GSD-2 if you need help vs enemy squadrons you can fire on squadrons, move, then fire on the same squadrons out of a different arc.

I do like gunnery teams, but they compete with your squadrons.

Keep your bombers semi close. Don't send them out to max range. Instead, place them where they should get a couple of shots in, then one of your vessels gets close enough to reposition them quickly. With only 2, they are not a main strike weapon. What they do is help your lead VSD focus fire something.


Your list intrigues me...

I have a few games under my belt playing:
VSD-1
Screed
Chiraneau

GSD-1
Engine Techs
ACM

GSD-1
Engine Techs
ACM
Demolisher

Rhymer
TIE Bomber
TIE Advanced

I like having the VSD run the mini-Rhymer ball. Chiraneau is there for insurance (freedom of maneuver), which I haven't required yet, but I'm reluctant to drop it. I'm not sure if I'm getting max utility out of the engine techs on the GSDs. Part of me thinks they just let me race into trouble, and not take a more appropriate command at the same time.

So, I'm tempted to try your list, but I may only get one more practice game before this weekend's event.


Go with what you know. In any tournament, a player who knows the ins and outs of their own list really well is far better off with that list than some list they've never played before. Now our lists aren't that far off, so if you play mine and it feels right and comfortable, go with it. But go with it because you're comfortable and not for some other reason.

I'd agree that Chirpy and your Engine Techs are the first things to switch up in your list, if YOU think you aren't getting value for them. You could easily swap them for 3 TIE fighters or 2 TIE Adv. Either set of fighters gets you more damage per turn (an equal amount of damage by the way at an ave. 1.5 damage per attack) than you were getting before at the cost of either potentially getting pinned down or not having the same level of maneuver. The nice thing about Rhymer is he affects all squadrons, not just bombers so the fighters would also throw long. I'd probably keep your list, but find room for a TIE Adv or 2. In your list I'd go that way because you might not have the squadron activations to make the most out of 3 TIE fighters. Don't forget your Demolishers can always bank a first turn Squadron token to help move things around. Sure, its competing with Nav or Eng, but those decisions are why we play the game!

It's sometimes okay to have more squadrons than activations. When playing Yavaris with Bs, I've gone to having 4 B-wings. Yavaris can't activate all 4 at once, but having 4 means as a group they cover more space and I'm far more likely to have two in the right spot at the point of contact. Then Yavaris activates the correct 2 or 3, while the other(s) move into better position. Imperials don't have quite the same problem as their bombers move twice as fast. So if you went for twin TIE adv, plus your 3 bombers, your VSD could activate 4 with a token. So knowing that, your two TIE adv can take slightly wider point positions to ward off incoming interceptors, and then you send one in with your bomber group. The second can activate during the squadron phase to engage more enemy squadrons or position itself ahead of the enemy ships in spot the enemy is likely to come to.
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Penguin Bonaparte
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It's crazy with this much time before actually getting to play but while I'd been thinking about this:

VSDII + Tarkin + Gunnery Team
VSDI
GSDII + Demolisher
2x Tie Advanced

now I'm wondering about

VSDI + Screed + XX9 Turbolasers + Assault Proton Torpedoes
VSDI + XX9 Turbolasers
GSDII + Demolisher
Rhymer
2x Tie Advanced

Analysis paralysis!
 
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Allen T
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I like the VSDI.
It lets my Nebulons enjoy fire superiority for longer.
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PenguinBonaparte wrote:
It's crazy with this much time before actually getting to play but while I'd been thinking about this:

VSDII + Tarkin + Gunnery Team
VSDI
GSDII + Demolisher
2x Tie Advanced

now I'm wondering about

VSDI + Screed + XX9 Turbolasers + Assault Proton Torpedoes
VSDI + XX9 Turbolasers
GSDII + Demolisher
Rhymer
2x Tie Advanced

Analysis paralysis!


Don't forget- Assault Proton Torps are in Wave 2, so you won't have them available. Unless you meant Assault Concussion Missiles.
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Oops, the squad builder I was using just added those in! Two veteran captains then!
 
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Reaper Steve
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PenguinBonaparte wrote:
Two veteran captains then!

Pretty sure those are Wave II as well.
Nevermind. was thinking of another card (that I now need to look up).
 
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Penguin Bonaparte
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Nope, I definitely have those cards!
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