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Subject: movement into oceans or up a steep hill after a beach hex.. rss

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dave
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So you'd think after all the games I've played I'd know everything, but apparently I don't as a couple of questions came up on this crazy Belgium open scenario we played last week ('Saving private Ryan'). Perhaps I'm missing something or just (under)overthinking this, but maybe both of these questions could be addressed in the next faq.


1. In one turn, can a unit move to a beach hex (or any hex really) and then into an ocean hex?


I’m thinking that it can’t, but it’s a little fuzzy here. The FAQ goes into detail about units only moving 2 hexes when moving into at least 1 beach hex, but this doesn’t break that rule. The beach and oceans reference cards use slightly different language: ‘Maximum movement onto beaches is 2 hexes’ vs ‘Maximum movement in ocean is 1 hex’, and in the example the unit only moves into 1 ocean hex (along with the beach hex). However it seems like an ocean move would mirror a beach move in that the ‘1 hex’ language really means 1 hex for the entire movement, just like it’s 2 hexes if there’s a beach move, but I can see the other argument as well.

2. In one turn, can a tank (or and infantry on an infantry assault) move into a beach hex and then up a steep hill (or inf. up Cliff/Sea Bluff)?

I’m thinking that it can’t, but I’d like to verify that. The FAQ goes into detail about units moving only 2 hexes when moving or attempting to move into a beach hex, so since it’s a ‘2 hex move’ up a steep hill, it seems like it couldn’t. However, a tank can take ground up a steep hill, so maybe there’s a difference. I assume an infantry moving up either a steep hill or cliff/sea bluffs on an infantry assault would be treated the same way.


Here are the reference cards and relevant FAQ entries:



Q. When an Armor unit moves two hexes along clear terrain, may it enter a Beach hex as its third hex of movement?
A. No. A unit that moves onto a Beach hex during any part of its movement phase (it does not matter if it’s the first or second hex) may only move two hexes for its total movement this turn. The unit, however, may Take Ground or Armor Overrun and gain an additional hex of movement that way.
Examples:
» An Armor unit moves ashore from the Ocean. The first hex is a Beach. The Armor can only move one more hex because it is limited to two hexes total.
» An Armor unit moves from one Beach hex to another. The next hex is open ground, but the unit must stop after entering the open ground because it moved onto a Beach hex first and is limited to two hexes.
» An Armor unit moves across one open hex then onto a Beach hex. It must stop when it enters the Beach hex because the two hex limit applies when the unit enters the Beach hex.

Q. Can a unit move (not retreat) from a Beach hex back onto an Ocean hex?
A. Yes. Although it seems strange, units can move from a Beach hex onto an Ocean hex or from one Ocean hex to another.

Q. Can a unit move (not retreat) from a Beach hex back onto an Ocean hex?
A. Yes. Although it seems strange, units can move from a Beach hex onto an Ocean hex or from one Ocean hex to another, though movement is still restricted to one hex in the Ocean.

Q. Can an Armor unit on an open terrain hex that has Close Assaulted an enemy unit on a Steep Hill Take Ground and Armor Overrun if that enemy unit is eliminated or retreats (even though movement up a Steep Hill is a two-hex move)?
A. Yes. Taking Ground up a Steep Hill is possible. An Armor unit may Take Ground and then do an Armor Overrun attack.
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Ryan Keane
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1. I would say yes. The ocean movement doesn't cost 2 movement points - it's just that your units have to stop after they move into the first ocean hex.

2. I would say no. Based on the FAQ interpretation of the beach restriction, each beach movement in essence costs 2 movement points, so the unit has only 1 movement point left to try to climb the steep hill. The "onto" in italics on the beach card was a really poor choice of words for what they intended.
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Ron H
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1. I don't think so. I know you can't retreat onto an ocean hex, and I don't think you can move back to an ocean hex from a beach hex. (Although I don't have the book in front of me, I'm on my lunch break).

2. No, for infantry as a steep hill would be a 2 movement point move, and the Infantry has already moved one on beach. Tanks could probably do it (again don't have rules in front of me.)

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dave
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rongammer wrote:
1. I don't think so. I know you can't retreat onto an ocean hex, and I don't think you can move back to an ocean hex from a beach hex. (Although I don't have the book in front of me, I'm on my lunch break).

2. No, for infantry as a steep hill would be a 2 movement point move, and the Infantry has already moved one on beach. Tanks could probably do it (again don't have rules in front of me.)

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FAQ expressly says
Q. Can a unit move (not retreat) from a Beach hex back onto an Ocean hex?
A. Yes. Although it seems strange, units can move from a Beach hex onto an Ocean hex or from one Ocean hex to another.

and an infantry ordered by an infantry assault can move 3..

so, ..
 
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Lewis Karl
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Yes and Yes

The point in both cases is there is no rule that says these moves are illegal, hence they are legal.

1 After moving on the beach hex, the unit has one movement point left. That can be expended in moving into the Ocean. I see no rule that says otherwise. It doesn't violate Beach or Ocean hex movement rules.

2. Any unit that has 3 movement points may move to a beach hex (1 pt) and then up a cliff (2 pts). No rule will be violated, therefore its legal. It doesn't violate Beach or Cliff hex movement rules.
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dave
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Thanks for the responses.

So I think no/no, and we've got answers of yes/no; no/no (but some faulty assumptions); and yes/yes.

At least I'm reassured that the questions were good ones..
 
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Ryan Keane
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dave65tdh wrote:
Thanks for the responses.

So I think no/no, and we've got answers of yes/no; no/no (but some faulty assumptions); and yes/yes.

At least I'm reassured that the questions were good ones..
:)


On second thought, I was wrong about Q2 - Lewis's interpretation is correct. So I vote yes/yes with him.
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Minot
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After mulling it over, I am going to go for yes/yes.

The Beach/Ocean rules limit the max number of hexes moved. They do not seem to cost extra movement points, per see.
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dave
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NimitsTexan wrote:
After mulling it over, I am going to go for yes/yes.

The Beach/Ocean rules limit the max number of hexes moved. They do not seem to cost extra movement points, per see.
Ok, but just like you cannot move open-open-beach, or beach-beach-open because of the hard 2-beach movement restriction, why wouldn't the ocean also be a hard 1 hex movement--limiting the maximum hexes moved as per your explanation? Thus you couldn't move beach-ocean because of the ocean hard limit. For the 2-hex move up the hill, I can see this argument better. Hmm..

Ok, I'm going to finally check online to see what they do..
 
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dave
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So online, you can definitely move on the beach and then into the water (beach-ocean). So if we take that for gospel, I guess that's settled. It still seems inconsistent to me.

See third movement, bottom left, a 2-hex move into the water.
 
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Orion J.N. Winder
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I think question #2 could use a F&A, because I'd think that after already moving one beach hex, they couldn't do the "2-hex" move up the cliff because the limit to two hexes on the beach. So I'd rule NO on the second question (which was actually an agreement with the OP's original opinion)... but I'd bow to an official ruling...

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