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Subject: Newbie troubles rss

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Femme Worth
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Got this and started playing it with my significant other. They played as the cleric and I the wizard. We made it about six tiles before we were out of surge tokens. Should we try and play as two heroes each? It's also possible that I have misinterpreted some rules and made things more difficult for us. I see on here that the rulebook isn't the best. :| I know that we can keep any treasure (and gold?) we obtained and do town stuff before attempting the first adventure again.
 
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Mark Crump
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You're doing something wrong.

That said, the best combo is probably the Rogue and the Cleric. The rogue has a reliable talent to remove a trap. This is very handy.

Can you give us some more details on what you're doing? I finished the game playing with 3 friends. Also the game scales with more players, so you're not going to possibly make it easier with more. You'll be popping more tiles and encounter cards with 4.

That said, the one thing I can think of is, you took OUT the cards you were supposed to, right? There are about 20-25 encounter, monster, and treasure cards that come out of their decks at the start of the game. Depending on your success criteria, you add them into their decks.
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Alan Stewart
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Femmeworth wrote:
Should we try and play as two heroes each?
No. Two Heroes can get through this as long as they play well. Don't bunch up, take out each others' monsters as quickly as you can, but keep exploring and flipping those tiles to get to the end goal. How many 3-monster tiles did you flip? Getting too many of those early on can bog things down.

Femmeworth wrote:
It's also possible that I have misinterpreted some rules and made things more difficult for us.
It's possible, but at it's core, it's a pretty simple game. Follow the Hero, Exploration, Villain phases as outlined in the reminder cards and you should be good.

Femmeworth wrote:
I know that we can keep any treasure (and gold?) we obtained and do town stuff before attempting the first adventure again.
Yes to both. You might want to sell off any treasure you don't think you'll use. Also, swap around treasures if you think the other player will be able to use it better.

We've done okay with the Fighter and Cleric. I haven't looked at the wizard enough to know how well that would combo with the other characters. I would imagine that you'd want someone to absorb the hits to keep the wizard from dying.
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Mark Campo
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not sure what your doing that making it hard

tactics wise kill the thing that does the most damage or outrun it/stay out of range.

try and keep at least 1 daily for the villain

I very rarely walked over traps and treat them as deadends try and find other ways

dont waste healing tend to use healing to stop the use of surge.

e.g no point healing wizard if end of turn will ko him.. save healing to pull him back from KO with out losing the surge


I played though with wizard and thief and have quite a nice win lose balance, i think this is quite a hard combo but do able



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Chris Lawson
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Femmeworth wrote:
Got this and started playing it with my significant other. They played as the cleric and I the wizard. We made it about six tiles before we were out of surge tokens. Should we try and play as two heroes each? It's also possible that I have misinterpreted some rules and made things more difficult for us. I see on here that the rulebook isn't the best. :| I know that we can keep any treasure (and gold?) we obtained and do town stuff before attempting the first adventure again.

I also suspect you may be doing something wrong making the game harder for yourself.

Since it would be very difficult to make any suggestions without an really detailed description of your game, I would suggest you have a look at some YouTube play-through videos.

Robert at Black Belt Gaming has posted several on his channel and I highly recommend you give these a watch. The content he produces is very good and very enjoyable to watch. He has done a blind play through of Adventure 1 and currently is in progress with Adventure 2.

ToEE Adventure 1
Temple of Elemental Evil - Part 1 (by Black Belt Gaming)
ToEE Adventure 2
ToE Evil - A2 - P1 (by Black Belt Gaming)

I hope this will give you some suggestions how to maybe improve your game and check you have the rules down pat. If you have any further questions after watching them, by all means com back here and ask
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Femme Worth
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Thanks for the replies everyone. We attempted adventure 1 again and were successful this time. Barely. >_> I ended up switching to the ranger prior and that helped a bit. What seems to be our problem is that we get a lot of unlucky rolls and the vast majority of encounter cards do damage. Pretty much every tile had a black arrow. Perhaps we didn't shuffle them well. Between us we had enough gold to level up the cleric so we'll have that going for us now.
xris wrote:

I also suspect you may be doing something wrong making the game harder for yourself.

Since it would be very difficult to make any suggestions without an really detailed description of your game, I would suggest you have a look at some YouTube play-through videos.

Robert at Black Belt Gaming has posted several on his channel and I highly recommend you give these a watch. The content he produces is very good and very enjoyable to watch. He has done a blind play through of Adventure 1 and currently is in progress with Adventure 2.

ToEE Adventure 1
Temple of Elemental Evil - Part 1 (by Black Belt Gaming)
ToEE Adventure 2
ToE Evil - A2 - P1 (by Black Belt Gaming)

I hope this will give you some suggestions how to maybe improve your game and check you have the rules down pat. If you have any further questions after watching them, by all means com back here and ask

Cool, I'll check that out.
 
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Femme Worth
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Welp, adventure 2 is kicking our asses and we are both getting frustrated with the game. I don't know if I want to quit the game or modify the rules to be less bullshit.
 
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
I don't know if I want to quit the game or modify the rules to be less bullshit.


Depends on what the bullshit is. Nothing you can really do about die rolls. Shit rolls are part of the D&D culture, after all. (I play PnP Encounters every Wednesday and for the last three weeks or so, my war cleric is rolling like utter shit. Just part of the game.)

The easiest fix, I think, is just to give your party more healing surges. This allows you to just keep playing the game without having to tinker with other, more finicky stuff.

Last thing you want in a game like this is to be frustrated. It's supposed to be a fun dungeon romp. There needs to be a challenge there for sure, but you shouldn't want to throw the game out the window.

Try some more healing surges and then, if that doesn't do it for you, maybe shelve it then.

Kevin



 
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Alan Stewart
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Femmeworth wrote:
modify the rules to be less bullshit.
House rules to make a game fun are always a good thing. Are you sure you're only playing with half a deck? All the harder cards go in as you play. They are part of the Aftermath at the end of each adventure. You could houserule that it only takes four or even just three XP to cancel an encounter that you don't like. More healing surges is always good because then you still finish the adventure, which is the most important thing. I do that when playing with the kid. We don't always burn through them but a few 1's for us and 20's for the monsters and we sure can take a beating.
 
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brammyh wrote:
Also the game scales with more players, so you're not going to possibly make it easier with more. You'll be popping more tiles and encounter cards with 4.


The game most definitely gets easier with more heroes. With a single hero, every monster attacks every round. With two, they'll attack every other. The more heroes you add, the less often each individual monster attacks. Then you also have more heroes to absorb the damage, and more daily and utility powers to use.

Also, you're not popping more tiles and encounter cards with more heroes. In most cases, the main objective tile is 9-12 tiles into the pile, no matter how many heroes you use. So you're always going to get the same number of tiles, and the same number of encounters over the course of the adventure (as long as people keep moving and exploring).
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Alan Stewart
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DoomTurtle wrote:
less often each individual monster attacks.
Well, remember that you are activating Monster *groups* so if you have two players an each has a Gnoll Archer then on EVERY turn *BOTH* Gnoll Archers are going to activate. That's REALLY annoying! But yeah, with more heroes there more time for more people to take out monsters. If you can get four heroes exploring every turn (not always easy to do) then by the time each player has had three turns, the game is over. Almost. There'll still be the pesky boss to deal with in most cases.
 
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Femme Worth
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EverywhereGames wrote:
House rules to make a game fun are always a good thing. Are you sure you're only playing with half a deck? All the harder cards go in as you play. They are part of the Aftermath at the end of each adventure. You could houserule that it only takes four or even just three XP to cancel an encounter that you don't like. More healing surges is always good because then you still finish the adventure, which is the most important thing. I do that when playing with the kid. We don't always burn through them but a few 1's for us and 20's for the monsters and we sure can take a beating.

Yes. Forgot to address Mark Crump about that earlier.
Quote:
You could houserule that it only takes four or even just three XP to cancel an encounter that you don't like.

Not a bad idea.
DoomTurtle wrote:

The game most definitely gets easier with more heroes. With a single hero, every monster attacks every round. With two, they'll attack every other. The more heroes you add, the less often each individual monster attacks. Then you also have more heroes to absorb the damage, and more daily and utility powers to use.

Also, you're not popping more tiles and encounter cards with more heroes. In most cases, the main objective tile is 9-12 tiles into the pile, no matter how many heroes you use. So you're always going to get the same number of tiles, and the same number of encounters over the course of the adventure (as long as people keep moving and exploring).

Hmm. I'm thinking about using two heroes while my SO uses one.
natsean wrote:

Depends on what the bullshit is. Nothing you can really do about die rolls. Shit rolls are part of the D&D culture, after all. (I play PnP Encounters every Wednesday and for the last three weeks or so, my war cleric is rolling like utter shit. Just part of the game.)

The easiest fix, I think, is just to give your party more healing surges. This allows you to just keep playing the game without having to tinker with other, more finicky stuff.

Last thing you want in a game like this is to be frustrated. It's supposed to be a fun dungeon romp. There needs to be a challenge there for sure, but you shouldn't want to throw the game out the window.

Try some more healing surges and then, if that doesn't do it for you, maybe shelve it then.

Kevin

This is my first experience with D&D, so I'm learning quickly how annoying dice rolls are. Years of video games with deceiving percentages haven't prepared me. As for other annoying rules, my SO was annoyed by how you can't move, stop and disarm a trap, and then keep moving. One rule I was thinking about modifying was monsters always activating the turn they spawn. Though that would break the game without modifying anything else.

I know I can add my health surges but I don't find myself liking that idea.
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Kevin C.
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This is my first experience with D&D, so I'm learning quickly how annoying dice rolls are.


I've been dealing with it for 30+ years.

5e has the concept of Advantage and Disadvantage in certain situations. You roll two d20 and, for advantage, take the higher and for disadvantage, take the lower. It's such a simple thing and I wish we had it in 1980.

Doesn't help you much in the D&D boardgames, I know, but sucky dice rolls are just fodder for discussion afterwards. We have a half-orc pally in our party that should cut through pretty much everything.

Last week, he rolled two 1's in a row...I've been sending him nasty emails every day so he remembers his failure.

Quote:
I know I can add my health surges but I don't find myself liking that idea.


For me, it worked like a charm, but I do think of these games as a day off from PnP. I just want to have fun without a DM crushing my hopes and dreams.

I play with my kids and increasing the surges worked like a charm. Tinkering with the engine itself seemed to be changing the game to much from what I wanted from it.

But whatever works for you. These are really fun games...even losing can be fun. But you have to take those die rolls in stride.

Kevin
 
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Femme Worth
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We left the game yesterday in the middle of adventure 2 and picked it back up today. Naturally we died at the hands of the Air Elemental. I actually felt a little hope. I ended up having enough gold to level up the ranger. Leveling up the characters so early doesn't feel all that rewarding, even knowing about the advancement tokens. I'm planning to try and play the ranger and the rogue or fighter during our next attempt.
natsean wrote:

But whatever works for you. These are really fun games...even losing can be fun. But you have to take those die rolls in stride.

Kevin

I like being challenged but I can't stand having so much time wasted. Okay, wasted isn't 100% true more like used rather inefficiently. The game is not lean and while there could be better synergy and divvying up of the responsibilities between us, just one adventure attempt eats up 1 to 1.5 hours.
 
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Kevin C.
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I like being challenged but I can't stand having so much time wasted. Okay, wasted isn't 100% true more like used rather inefficiently. The game is not lean and while there could be better synergy and divvying up of the responsibilities between us, just one adventure attempt eats up 1 to 1.5 hours.


For me, the approach to these types of games are quite different from other games in my collection.

I don't worry so much about efficiency and "beating" the scenario. I just want to have a dungeon romp and a cool narrative.

As you say, this isn't a tightly designed strategy game. I look for synergy from Feld or Rosenberg. In this, I just want my characters to do cool D&D stuff and if they die, they die.

I enjoy the journey in these games, but I am a D&D player since the early 80's.

I just wonder if your approach isn't making it difficult to enjoy the game.

This is kind of cast spells, chuck dice, bash monsters and laugh a lot.

Having the party wipe isn't a waste of time for me, since I enjoy the story that lead up to it.

Kevin
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Alan Stewart
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Femmeworth wrote:
I ended up having enough gold to level up the ranger.
If you are earning that much gold then you are definitely doing something right. Being Level 2 and getting those Advancement Tokens should make things feel a little smoother.
 
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peter cooman
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Before i start, i will say that i have played all 3 of the former d&d titles, and enjoy them a lot.


Having about 30-40 games under my belt, i know the games, and do fairly good when playing, but when i started TOEE i struggled a bit too! It was fun and all, but into my first campaign now, i'm at 5-3 win-loss.

The first scenario was the hardest for me, as with the new trap system, i found myself 'eating' more encounters than before in the other games, as you often don't get to explore when disarming them, so i got the feeling i could better step on them and take my chances. After a few 4 damage traps and an adventure lost, i stopped doing that

Best to find other ways to reach your goal. A tile with traps should not be looked at as an obstacle to pass, it should be looked at as one tile less before your goal tile. If it didn't contain monsters, all the better!

Also, i found that my characters' starting abilities were not optimal, so i quickly changed that. I use fighter and ranger and quickly changed daring shout on the fighter for the one that lets you negate an encounter, and hunters mark on the ranger for danger sense, wich lets you negate another encounter. Now that they are levelled up, they both have a recharge token, so i can ignore 4 encounters during my adventure, wich gives lots of breathing space!

I also sell any 'discard after use' treasure cards if i don't use them in the adventure i find them. It's better to spend the money on advancement tokens that you can keep using. I only keep one lesser treasure on my character if i happen to have another 'good' treasure, like the wings of flying, so i have something to discard when an encounter asks me to.

I'm now up to adventure 6 and have a second level fighter with one reroll, one recharge and one 2hp refill, and a ranger on level 2 with one recharge;one reroll,one 2hp and a damage +1. I prefer the tokens to treasure, because you can't lose them anymore!

One last note, the doppelgangers are a real nuisance for me, so i started exploring much more compact, for example exploring one side of a tile and then the other, keeping things togheter instead of following one long path, thus keeping the party members at maximum 4 tiles away from the start tile, so a hero that draws doppelganger and gets sent away can quickly rejoin his companion.


And after all that you can still have games where the system just kicks you in the nuts and you can't do anything about it! Like adventure 5, where you count the elemental symbols on the tiles you reveal, and the 1st element that gets revealed 4 times is the one that supplies the boss wich you have to defeat. I had exactly 3 of each symbol after 12 tiles, so the maximum you could get, and my guys were pretty beat up by the time i got there. It's just a case of bad luck, and you just have to take it like that (i still won by the way, as the 13th tile was air, and that air elemental is pretty squishy!)
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Chris Lawson
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petercooman123 wrote:
I also sell any 'discard after use' treasure cards if i don't use them in the adventure i find them. It's better to spend the money on advancement tokens that you can keep using. I only keep one lesser treasure on my character if i happen to have another 'good' treasure, like the wings of flying, so i have something to discard when an encounter asks me to.

Agree with you. I tend to not use any of the Items I find, I prefer to put the 300GP towards a permanent goal (i.e. Advancement tokens) than make use of a one-shot Item. I even consider using a Healing Surge instead of making use of a Healing Potion for example.
petercooman123 wrote:
I'm now up to adventure 6 and have a second level fighter with one reroll, one recharge and one 2hp refill, and a ranger on level 2 with one recharge;one reroll,one 2hp and a damage +1. I prefer the tokens to treasure, because you can't lose them anymore!

Don't forget that you can purchase more than one Advancement token for the same character. There's nothing in the rules which suggests that you are not allowed to do this, otherwise why would the game supply six of each Advancement token when there are only 5 Heroes

I'm going to tap out the Recharge tokens first as they seems the clear best of the bunch.
petercooman123 wrote:
One last note, the doppelgangers are a real nuisance for me, so i started exploring much more compact, for example exploring one side of a tile and then the other, keeping things togheter instead of following one long path, thus keeping the party members at maximum 4 tiles away from the start tile, so a hero that draws doppelganger and gets sent away can quickly rejoin his companion.

Good point.
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peter cooman
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xris wrote:
petercooman123 wrote:

[q="petercooman123"]I'm now up to adventure 6 and have a second level fighter with one reroll, one recharge and one 2hp refill, and a ranger on level 2 with one recharge;one reroll,one 2hp and a damage +1. I prefer the tokens to treasure, because you can't lose them anymore!

Don't forget that you can purchase more than one Advancement token for the same character. There's nothing in the rules which suggests that you are not allowed to do this, otherwise why would the game supply six of each Advancement token when there are only 5 Heroes



Yup, but the plan is to get at least one Of them on each character untill i start doubling up.

After Two adventures where i wanted to use the reroll/recharge token that the other character had (wich i don't think you can), i decided to get all options for each character first!

Then i will see who needs what most (recharge on the fighter for his action surge, +1 damage on the ranger, as she has less heavy damage potential than the fighter)
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