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Subject: Components: Disappointed in the game board! rss

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Adam P
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I kickstarted this game, because the rules and gameplay looked great, but I regret backing it on HOW MUCH it cost when looking at these components for the first time.

The stickers for the tiles don't bother me, although it's a little tacky.

The box doesn't bother me, it's one of those slide on/off covers with cheap cardboard stock for the base.

It's the board!
The main centerpiece of the game is a thin, single fold piece of cardboard. It doesn't even lay flat unless you break the spine. The edges are not taped, so after repeated plays, the edges will get worn quickly. For the price I paid on kickstarter, this is a disappointment. I'd rather sacrifice the insert to get a better board.


I don't know if I can recommend this game for the price point (~$40 USD). There are too many other games out on the market, competing for player time.

This is my first time with Columbia Games, so if this is the expected quality, please let me know and I'll reserve any future judgments. I will note they did deliver on time and did give good communication throughout the kickstarter.


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Nevin Ball
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This game is from Columbia Games, not GMT. Cardboard or paper maps are standard for wargame companies of which Columbia is one. Was the KS campaign specific as to what type of map? With the exception of Crusader Rex, 2nd edition which has a mounted map, all of their maps are cardboard.

GMT is producing more games with mounted maps and will specify that in their game description. With that said, Columbia is a small family business that have been producing outstanding games for years. They are known for their block wargamers (and yes you have to sticker them). Games like Hammer of the Scots and Julius Caesar are among my favorites and highly rated here on BGG.

Happy Gaming!
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Adam P
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Nevin wrote:
This game is from Columbia Games, not GMT.

Edited, thank you. I had mixed-up the names.
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Dan Keller
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The description on the campaign page describes it as

Quote:
The Kickstarter edition

Deluxe Mounted Map
Color Rules. Download PDF here.
Deck of 45 full color cards
48 wood tiles (railway track)
Deluxe Currency Chips


I'm not sure it qualifies as a mounted map. I just got mine today as well and was a little taken aback at the board.

The deluxe currency chips are wooden discs colored white, red, and blue. I suppose it's a step up from tiddlywinks (I'm looking at you, Rogue Agent) and plastic poker chips, but I'm not sure if "deluxe" is the right description.
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Dan Keller
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Niquilibrium wrote:
I have to say, after looking at the picture, that I don't think that your feelings are out of line, at all. That board is exceptionally thin. I would have been disappointed, as well. I've seen cheap games on the Walmart store shelves that have a sturdier and better constructed board than the one shown in your picture. Is this the quality of most kickstarter games? I've not backed a kickstarter yet, but if this is the results then I'm not sure that I will.


It varies. This barely crossed the funding goal so this was probably the bare minimum for components. Many highly funded games tend to go all out in blinging out a game, especially for KS backers.

I've had a few games from Kickstarter that had some questionable components, either by choice or incompetence. But I've also had a number that have been lavish productions (Euphoria: Build a Better Dystopia and Argent: The Consortium are two that come immediately to mind) and many that have good, high-quality components (most of the Dice Hate Me Games library of games fall into this category).
 
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Nevin Ball
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chopperdan wrote:
The description on the campaign page describes it as

Quote:
The Kickstarter edition

Deluxe Mounted Map
Color Rules. Download PDF here.
Deck of 45 full color cards
48 wood tiles (railway track)
Deluxe Currency Chips


I'm not sure it qualifies as a mounted map. I just got mine today as well and was a little taken aback at the board.

The deluxe currency chips are wooden discs colored white, red, and blue. I suppose it's a step up from tiddlywinks (I'm looking at you, Rogue Agent) and plastic poker chips, but I'm not sure if "deluxe" is the right description.


It should have been a mounted map then - just like their Crusader Rex, 2nd edition. They missed the boat on this one since this is a game that should appeal to more than their wargamer base.
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Shayne Richards
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Columbia games essentially do not produce mounted maps for any games in the form that we come to know mounted maps to be (i.e. euro board games). They do offer now with kickstarter and previously with pre orders what they term as mounted or deluxe mounted maps which are in fact just thick cardboard.

This has long been an issue with many people. however,

1.Crusader Rex does not come with mounted maps you must have got a pre order (or got very lucky).

2.I prefer the standard cardboard maps that CG produce over the mounted maps (which I think are prone to problems down the track) the standard thin cardboard maps are great and resilient...

3.That said games like Field commander have mounted board that are so bad its not funny.

CG need to ignore the die hard fans who say the mounted boards are good and either do proper mounted boards or stick solely to the standard cardboard ones they issue with their games originally. The deluxe boards they are bringing out do not last as well as the standard boards, they are prone to warp, peel etc. In reality they are probably costing as much or more than they could get mounted boards made for if they shop around.

I was told by CG games that it can cost around $20 more to have a board mounted, yet can get a book binder to bind an a4 book in leather and hard board for $25 retail. With kickstarter I don't think there is a lot of excuse for producing these boards as is.

Normally CG sales are to regular fans so this game has opened their sales up to a different market which may be good, if enough people complain about the boards they may start to listen.

Don't get me wrong I am a massive CG fan and have all their games but I have a few times on forums voiced my opinion on the CG version of mounted boards. I know from experience some disagree but I am concerned that it may hurt the company in the long run.
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Shayne Richards
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As for the box, i am a massive fan of these, normal board games have terrible boxes that are hard to open and close due to vacuum effect and often tear at corners or are loose and unable to stand up without the box lid coming out.. These are a great and practical design.
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Jeff Yeackle
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Nevin wrote:
It should have been a mounted map then - just like their Crusader Rex, 2nd edition. They missed the boat on this one since this is a game that should appeal to more than their wargamer base.


This actually looks like CGs version of a mounted map. I don't have CR 2nd Ed (only 1st) but the images match what I saw and the map I received with the latest printing of Napoleon.

When compared to their normal card stock maps (a step up from traditional heavy stock paper maps in terms of thickness) these maps are a lot nicer. However, they're not what most people expect when they read 'mounted map' even though this is technically one as well. While they should stand up to repeated plays just fine, you could always get a sheet of plexi to put on top (adds a nice effect) or mount it in a picture frame which eliminates the need to back fold it which I find annoying too (I use plexi).

The other bits are on par with CGs quality. While not flashy, they're not anywhere near the budget quality of mass produced games at WalMart which use cheap plastic and paper stock. They're just simple but get the job done, but its easy to feel let down if you're expecting a certain level of glitz and aren't already familiar with the mom n' pop nature of CG games.

Overall I was actually surprised how cheaply CG priced this game knowing a bit about their production costs (they print domestically) and what they normally sell their games for with similar components. Especially with the inclusion of an insert.

Hopefully you enjoy the game. I usually think of my favorite CG games like Grado headphones. The outside isn't slick or modern and the price isn't cheap, but the audio quality is superb.
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Jeff Yeackle
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Shaynerichards72 wrote:
CG need to ignore the die hard fans who say the mounted boards are good and either do proper mounted boards or stick solely to the standard cardboard ones they issue with their games originally. The deluxe boards they are bringing out do not last as well as the standard boards, they are prone to warp, peel etc.


Interesting. I wonder if it's a humidity thing. Being in a somewhat similar (and probably a bit dryer) temperate zone to where they print I haven't had any issues (yet!). But yeah, I'm not sold on them, the basic cardboard is fine and it works better with my plexi.
 
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Brad Andrews
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I am kind of annoyed that the insert will not hold sleeved cards. (Fantasy Flight green ones)

Why do so many companies waste money on inserts that have to be tossed to fit everything back in?
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Shayne Richards
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jyeackle wrote:
Shaynerichards72 wrote:
CG need to ignore the die hard fans who say the mounted boards are good and either do proper mounted boards or stick solely to the standard cardboard ones they issue with their games originally. The deluxe boards they are bringing out do not last as well as the standard boards, they are prone to warp, peel etc.


Interesting. I wonder if it's a humidity thing. Being in a somewhat similar (and probably a bit dryer) temperate zone to where they print I haven't had any issues (yet!). But yeah, I'm not sold on them, the basic cardboard is fine and it works better with my plexi.


Im in Australia so its not the kindest environment.
 
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Adam P
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jyeackle wrote:

The other bits are on par with CGs quality. While not flashy, they're not anywhere near the budget quality of mass produced games at WalMart which use cheap plastic and paper stock. They're just simple but get the job done, but its easy to feel let down if you're expecting a certain level of glitz and aren't already familiar with the mom n' pop nature of CG games.

Overall I was actually surprised how cheaply CG priced this game knowing a bit about their production costs (they print domestically) and what they normally sell their games for with similar components. Especially with the inclusion of an insert


I wondered about this, but with the resources available, it really should be standard to actually mount the board.

I feel there's no excuse in this modern era of board gaming. Game Crafter offers mounted boards for $5/100 bulk, not sure if it's good quality, though.
https://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/product/BiFoldBoard
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John Drake
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Nevin wrote:

They missed the boat on this one since this is a game that should appeal to more than their wargamer base.



I really don't dislike publishers/designers who make games below industry standards as long as they are upfront/honest about the quality of the game. For instance, Clinic is on par with a PnP game and carries a fairly hefty price-tag. But while I would prefer a higher quality product, nothing upset/disappoints me about the final product because the designer was up-front about the quality of the game (He posted pictures).

In contrast, this project promised a deluxe mounted map... and delivered heavy folded cardstock. So for those that aren't deeply familiar with CG product line, the consumers' expectations are likely going to be much higher than the product they received. And to not make the product's quality explicit seems borderline dishonest.

For the size of this print-run (I suspect under 1,000 units) and the amount of money that the game funded (not much)... the actual end-result isn't that bad. Really, the only thing that leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth is the fact that they didn't highlight what a deluxe map constitutes.
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Oberon Sexton
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andrews777 wrote:
I am kind of annoyed that the insert will not hold sleeved cards. (Fantasy Flight green ones)

Why do so many companies waste money on inserts that have to be tossed to fit everything back in?


No need to sleeve these cards, you don't shuffle them. Card quality is fine. Fantasy Flight started selling sleeves when they started making thinner cards.
 
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Shayne Richards
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BaBang wrote:
Nevin wrote:

They missed the boat on this one since this is a game that should appeal to more than their wargamer base.



I really don't dislike publishers/designers who make games below industry standards as long as they are upfront/honest about the quality of the game. For instance, Clinic is on par with a PnP game and carries a fairly hefty price-tag. But while I would prefer a higher quality product, nothing upset/disappoints me about the final product because the designer was up-front about the quality of the game (He posted pictures).

In contrast, this project promised a deluxe mounted map... and delivered heavy folded cardstock. So for those that aren't deeply familiar with CG product line, the consumers' expectations are likely going to be much higher than the product they received. And to not make the product's quality explicit seems borderline dishonest.

For the size of this print-run (I suspect under 1,000 units) and the amount of money that the game funded (not much)... the actual end-result isn't that bad. Really, the only thing that leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth is the fact that they didn't highlight what a deluxe map constitutes.


I totally agree, its less to do with the actual board but the way the board is advertised. Its very much a politician speil, technically it is a deluxe mounted board but in line with common perception it falls very short. I personally think that CG should have gone the extra effort to do a good board on this as may people who are purchasing this game will be new customers who haven't bought CG games before and it could attract sales of all their games in the long term. Short term v long term.
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Shayne Richards
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adamredwoods wrote:
jyeackle wrote:

The other bits are on par with CGs quality. While not flashy, they're not anywhere near the budget quality of mass produced games at WalMart which use cheap plastic and paper stock. They're just simple but get the job done, but its easy to feel let down if you're expecting a certain level of glitz and aren't already familiar with the mom n' pop nature of CG games.

Overall I was actually surprised how cheaply CG priced this game knowing a bit about their production costs (they print domestically) and what they normally sell their games for with similar components. Especially with the inclusion of an insert


I wondered about this, but with the resources available, it really should be standard to actually mount the board.

I feel there's no excuse in this modern era of board gaming. Game Crafter offers mounted boards for $5/100 bulk, not sure if it's good quality, though.
https://www.thegamecrafter.com/publish/product/BiFoldBoard


I know that part of the issue previously has been regarding the size of the boards and the need for the boards to be folded not just in half but into four with most of their games...obviously this pushes costs a fair bit but still is quite possible based on a lot of other games produced.
 
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Just played first game with my mom and her husband. They are not gamers and enjoyed the game very much. Not one word was said about the components. I kickstarted the game and got exactly what the pictures showed. I was actually impressed with the cards. They are higher quality than previous games. $40 for me was a great price for what I got. My copy will get plenty of play and I'm sure it will hold up.
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Brad Andrews
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They should not have claimed a deluxe mounted board, as this was certainly not deluxe. This is one good reason to watch what they show and not just the words.

GMT deluxe boards are far nicer. I cannot think of anyone now who claims a deluxe mounted board, but this doesn't even live up to the standard mounted boards in most other games with mounted boards.
 
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Ray Uffrahst
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Thanks for posting this picture. I immediately ordered a copy from CG.
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It's a minor quibble, but I was also surprised at the rulebook; it appears to have been printed with a desktop printer, on regular copy paper.

The overall impression of the game is that it is a high-quality print and play, like you can get from Print and Play Productions. Not the finished professional quality I would expect from a publisher that has been around for a long time. I do understand that wargames are their usual bread and butter, but a couple minutes of market research would have detailed what the industry standards are for euro-style games.
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The components are functional. Everyone complained about Glory to Rome and its art but gameplay was good. Play the game people, it's great. Small print run, CG took a gamble with a game outside of their regular market and it plays great. If they went with higher quality components everyone would complain about the price.
 
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3dicebombers wrote:
It's a minor quibble, but I was also surprised at the rulebook; it appears to have been printed with a desktop printer, on regular copy paper.

The overall impression of the game is that it is a high-quality print and play, like you can get from Print and Play Productions. Not the finished professional quality I would expect from a publisher that has been around for a long time. I do understand that wargames are their usual bread and butter, but a couple minutes of market research would have detailed what the industry standards are for euro-style games.


I don't think they care TBH
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Shayne Richards
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Just got my copy and well...the game board certainly is not even the same level as the "Deluxe Mounted" and "Mounted" game boards that they normally produce, it is thinner for one. It doesn't fold in half without the risk of damage although ignoring the big speed hump on the centre of the board it lays flat well enough.

I am sort of neither here nor there on the issue but do believe that they needed to realise that the market would predominantly be Euro gamers who would be shocked at the components V the usual customers who would be fine with them. I imagine that they have a lot of dissatisfied customers and have lost a lot of future customers who may have been lured over to the companies other great games.
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andrews777 wrote:
I am kind of annoyed that the insert will not hold sleeved cards. (Fantasy Flight green ones)

Why do so many companies waste money on inserts that have to be tossed to fit everything back in?


I found that the May Day Purple Std USA size (56 x 87mm) sleeves 100 pack non-premium ones do just fit within the game insert (thankfully).

I also found that if a put a piece of clear tape over the join on the inside of the slip cover (where you can't see it), then slipping on and off the cover is a lot easier.
 
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