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Axis & Allies: WWI 1914» Forums » General

Subject: Is this game historical at all? Wonder if deciding to get it. rss

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Dorian Key
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I'm a avid wargamer and I've played some complex games like Paths of Glory and other hex-to-hex wargames but I wanted to pick this up to play with my less geekier friends who might play Axis and Allies and NOT say a GMT hex to hex wargame or something like Paths of Glory/Here I Stand.

That being said is this game a total non-historical game? Does USA and Italy start with the Allies turn 1? From the map why does France have less points to build than Austria-Hungary? Are the forces deployed historical as they were in 1914?
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Robert Wesley
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Re: Is this game a-historical at all? Wonder if deciding to get it, or not?
Yes, in that there WAS: "World War One"; and... that's "it"! whistle
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Jason Meyers
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Well, and the sides are correct. But it is not concerned with historical accuracy. But it is still fun.
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Ron
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Spielemitkinder wrote:
But it is still fun.

I guess that is the aim of the game. Beer & Pretzel. Don't expect too much meeple
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Kevin Collins
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There is more depth to it than meets the eye and it models WW1 pretty well. The US and Italy start the game as belligerents but the US is a non-factor for a while. A-H were always suspicious of the Italians anyway so that is not too much of a stretch. I have had fun with it and I will play it again in the future.
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Robert Wesley
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Spielemitkinder wrote:
But it is still fun.
PzVIE wrote:

I guess that is the aim of the game. Beer & Pretzel. Don't expect too much meeple
Yeah, and had it been "more-so" historically then it would have been called: "Central Powers & Western Entente", yet, it isn't!
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Ronald Hill
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GROGnads wrote:
Spielemitkinder wrote:
But it is still fun.
PzVIE wrote:

I guess that is the aim of the game. Beer & Pretzel. Don't expect too much meeple
Yeah, and had it been "more-so" historically then it would have been called: "Central Powers & Western Entente", yet, it isn't!




Excellent point, but, wasn't the Entente dissolved once Russia surrendered in 1917? I have no idea what they called themselves afterwards. So, Allies kind of works. Plus, Axis rolls off the tongue much easier than 'Central Powers'. Aside from a questionable title, have fun with your friends and play.
 
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Robert Wesley
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Vimy145 wrote:
Excellent point, but, wasn't the Entente dissolved once Russia surrendered in 1917? I have no idea what they called themselves afterwards. So, Allies kind of works. Plus, Axis rolls off the tongue much easier than 'Central Powers'. Aside from a questionable title, have fun with your friends and play.
shake JUST their: 'title'? When does this actually begin, or, what year then? As 'opposed' for when it-(WW1) actually DID begin? Let's review that a tad, since Turkey, Italy, & USA are "within"/at start now, oh, and even Russia? What year 'specifically' are we discussing again, then? surprise
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Dorian Key
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Italy, the Ottomans, AND USA start the game on turn 1?

How does that make sense at all? USA only came in years later and Turkey/Italy sat out all of the fall 1914.

Are there any historical rules that brings in Italy/Turkey on turn 2 and USA on like turn 6?
 
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Chris Broggi
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US doesn't enter the war until turn 4 unless they are attacked first.
And Italy and US are the last players in turn order to also simulate heir late entries.
 
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Dorian Key
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The Ottoman Empire didn't enter the war until November 1914 too.
 
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Jason Meyers
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ManhattanGrey wrote:
Italy, the Ottomans, AND USA start the game on turn 1?

How does that make sense at all? USA only came in years later and Turkey/Italy sat out all of the fall 1914.

Are there any historical rules that brings in Italy/Turkey on turn 2 and USA on like turn 6?


Don't try to make the thing historical. It's not. While the game is slightly imbalanced in favor of the Allies, the CP can take out the entire British fleet on the first turn (if the rolls break their way) and the Austrians and Ottomans are more critical for a Central Powers win than Germany. That's how historical it is...

I actually think the one-round of combat per battle is ingenious and helps to create the trench warfare feel. The way the handle artillery/infantry support and then also air superiority with artillery benefits is also spot on. So I guess there are a few historical-type elements here and there. whistle
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C Ramos
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Only historical in theme really.

If you like Axis & Allies then you'll probably like this game. If you haven't played Axis & Allies, not saying you wouldn't like it, but this is probably not the one to start with.

Axis & Allies, as others have eluded to, is probably not the right title to this since those "powers" didn't exist then.
 
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Midnight Reaper
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ManhattanGrey wrote:
I'm a avid wargamer and I've played some complex games like Paths of Glory and other hex-to-hex wargames but I wanted to pick this up to play with my less geekier friends who might play Axis and Allies and NOT say a GMT hex to hex wargame or something like Paths of Glory/Here I Stand.

That being said is this game a total non-historical game? Does USA and Italy start with the Allies turn 1? From the map why does France have less points to build than Austria-Hungary? Are the forces deployed historical as they were in 1914?

My take on it goes like this: Don't think of the 1914 version of Axis and Allies as a true-to-life simulation of World War I any more than you would think of the 1942 version of Axis and Allies as a true-to-life simulation of World War II. Instead, think of it as a fairly-well-made-but-quite-expensive starter set for your own game of the First World War; once you add in some rules, change when the Italians, the Turks, and the US start the war, and make whatever other modifications you think such a war game should have.

To think otherwise is to court madness.

-M_R
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Ronald Hill
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GROGnads wrote:
Vimy145 wrote:
Excellent point, but, wasn't the Entente dissolved once Russia surrendered in 1917? I have no idea what they called themselves afterwards. So, Allies kind of works. Plus, Axis rolls off the tongue much easier than 'Central Powers'. Aside from a questionable title, have fun with your friends and play.
shake JUST their: 'title'? When does this actually begin, or, what year then? As 'opposed' for when it-(WW1) actually DID begin? Let's review that a tad, since Turkey, Italy, & USA are "within"/at start now, oh, and even Russia? What year 'specifically' are we discussing again, then? surprise


In 1914 the two treaties involved in the Great War were the Central Powers [Germany and Austria-Hungary] and the Triple Entente [United Kingdom, France and Russia]. During the war both alliances expanded, for the Central Powers the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria along with some smaller co-belligerents. For the Triple Entente, it expanded to include Japan, Italy, with other countries being joining, such as Serbia, Belgium, Brazil, Greece, Portugal, and Romania. The United States considered itself an Associate Power and never a member of the Triple Entente, more like an ally of the Triple Alliance.
So, after a long and non-exciting paragraph, the correct title for the game at a 1914 date would be 'The Central Powers and the Triple Entente', but, by the end of the war in 1918, it could be 'The Central Powers and Allies'. However, 'axis' still rolls off the tongue much easier and 'Axis and Allies 1914: World War 1' somewhat works.
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Dan Long
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In terms of the historical nature of the game- the times I've played, the Western Front turns into a bloodbath stalemate....
 
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Sven Stuehrmann
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being a WW1-buff I was quite surprised how well this game managed to bring certain aspects of the great war to life.

the turn order (austria, russia, germany, france, britain, ottomans, italy, us) is in the timly order, the conflict unfold in reality. because you don´t play in years but in turns, there is no historical problem in it. e.g. just say: first round when the turkish player starts: it´s october 14...

the us will be neutral until turn 4 and there are even rules for russian revolution. thats nice.

the stalemate of infantry warfare is well build into the mechanics due to the one-battleround-only combat phase. The same can be said about the use of artillery and airplanes. Only the tank rules don´t make so much sense.

the war in my one test game unfold pretty the same way it did historicaly - and that was not because i wanted it to happen like that.

some things must be abstacted in such a beer and bretzel game, but our game felt actually quite thematical.

Some unhistoric things i don´t like might have been build in for play balance: Austria ist way to strong, the german production center is way to far away from the western front (anybody heared about the ruhr?) the african warfare and force compositions there felt wrong. the german navy is to strong compared to the british et cetera... but on the big scale the game delievered for me.

I might even say, that AA 1914 felt more like WW1 to me than Path of Glory, which while beeing a great game,had some very odd game mechanics and very scripded event system.

things i dislike in historical boardgames are wrong country boarders. That allways feels, as if the designer slaps you to the face to show you, how little he cared about the topic of his game. In AA1914 the german borders are wrong, (maybe as being german i'm a bit to sensitive :o) ) but this game has at least a more realistic map than triumph and tragedy (but on the other side: which game hasn´t)...
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william moran
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It is not accurate. While A&A 1942 is a good representation of the economies and problems faced by the countries in WWII (with the exception of the US economy being smaller than actual in order to make it a game - the actual representation would be to triple US home values but there would be no possible game in that case), the 1914 game has Italy and the Ottoman Empire in at round one while there should be at least one round before they enter. Also, Britain would not enter if Germany did not invade Belgium. France would not be able to invade Belgium with no cost and acquire it as an Ally. Portugal was a British, not a French ally. The US would not enter if the Germans did not declare unrestricted sub warfare, although British propaganda might have had some effect by 1918/1919 if French had collapsed.
It is valuable as a game but does not accurate reflect WWI problems.
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Sven Stuehrmann
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Well, I respect your opinion, but I desagree with you in a few points, Will. Why should turkey and italy come in at turn 2? That depends entirely on what you think, one turn represents in this game. If the US can enter freely in turn 4 and even earlier with unrestricted submarine warfare in this game, than one turn comes close to at least a year. Turkey entered in Oct. 14 and Italy in Spring 15 - given such a turn-scope, there is not really a problem with their entry in this game.
I don't know who told you that britain wouldn't have joined the war without belgium, but that is not valid if you read some present history-science. It would have taken a bit longer, but there is not much controversy, that it would have fullfilled it's war-treaty liabilities with france and russia anyway. To say that the US wouldn't have joined the war without unrestricted subwarfare is also not true as you mentioned allready by yourself. It had way to much financial interest in seeing the entente side win, after it delivered so much production and credit to their cause, to stand aside and see it all get flushed down the toilette by the kaiser.
And Belgium as afrench ally? In my view the designer build in a reason for the german player to attack it. The real reason (strong right flank attack on the french) cant be simulated in this gamescale. This game simulates quite well the problems of that war (well, at least for such an entry-level-game) the central player has to concentrate on bringing russia down, shift forces and reach victory in the west before the us enters with power. Italy, Turkey and Africa are important to, but are sidekicks as they should be. The Entente has the same problems as in the real war: to coordinate their offensives on all fronts to overexert the german army and get back to bewegungskrieg. Well that have been main WW1-Problems, and they are there. What is missing for you? I would not call any axis and allies game accurate, but I think that they all offer a good first look and feel about the conflicts they represent. 1914 is in that way not worse than the rest. Anybody who wants significant more simulation value should not look for a man-on-the-map-game at all. (Sorry for my english folks!
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william moran
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I was referring to the question of History. Britain would have entered eventually, but would have been slow to react without the violation of Belgium. The game forces all sides to come in so we can have a wargame not Diplomacy. The problem is coordinating the various alliances. Teams probably work together better than the actual Entente and CP did in actuality but that happens in most games. The game provides strategic problems and can get bogged down just like in WWI. Attempting to make it more realistic would probably alter the balance. It will be interesting to see if any variations or "house rules" are made.
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Robert Hanawalt
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<Ahem> If anyone's interested, I've posted new rules changes in the Files section below. Feel free to give them a try and comment on them if you wish. They add a bit of the historical realism that some of you are seeking.
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Robert Wesley
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Are there 'Zeppelins' and "FIREBALL Barrage/Spotter Balloons"?
 
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GROGnads wrote:
Are there 'Zeppelins' and "FIREBALL Barrage/Spotter Balloons"?

None spotted yet. What's the ADMCS (Attack/Defense/Move/Cost/Specials) for the "FIREBALL Barrage/Spotter Balloons"? whistle

-M_R
 
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Robert Wesley
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Where is any "Aerial Torpedo" as well? Can you 'get' the B.A.R "issued"? shake
 
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Ron
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GROGnads wrote:
Are there 'Zeppelins' and "FIREBALL Barrage/Spotter Balloons"?

Balloons will be published in a separate expansion set: meeple
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