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The Witcher Adventure Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Move along additional routes (teleportation and others) rss

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Sir Gaulen de Loria
Spain
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Hi guys,

I don't know how to resolve these additional routes, for example in Triss' teleportation. I perform first my travel action, collect tokens, resolve foul fate card if moved two, and then move the extra 1 - 2?

There's also an investigation card with an elven path that allows to move along 1 or 2 routes when you draw it.

In the extra movement lead tokens aren't collected, I suppose, when arriving to a new location, nor a foul fate card is drawn if moving 2 additional, am I right?

I'd appreciate some examples to understand it better.

Thanks!!



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Jan Probst
Germany
Kiel
Schleswig Holstein
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It all counts as one move, no lead collection or travel task/quest completion in the middle (app version does this wrong).

Foul fate is only drawn if your action in itself was fast travel, since its bound to that, not just to "distance 2". If you get distance 2+ by taking regular travel plus whatever bonus, no need for foul fate.
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Luigi Pasato
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Weltenreiter wrote:
Foul fate is only drawn if your action in itself was fast travel, since its bound to that, not just to "distance 2". If you get distance 2+ by taking regular travel plus whatever bonus, no need for foul fate.


Mmh, I'm not sure this is the correct interpretation.
It could be that you have to draw a foul fate card when you take the Travel Action to move along one route and then 1/2 routes due to Teleport.
But, again, I'm not sure in either way...

Can you elaborate your reasoning a bit more please?

For easy reference the rules of interest:

ACTIONS
Travel: The player either moves his hero along one route or he moves his hero along two consecutive routes. Then, he receives lead tokens matching the number and color shown at his destination. Finally, if he moved along two routes, he draws one foul fate card and resolves it.

FOUL FATE
A hero draws a foul fate card when resolving a foul fate token or after moving along two routes during a travel action.

TELEPORT CARD
When you perform a travel action, you may spend 1 Common Marker from this card to move along 1 or 2 additional routes. If you do, advance the war track.

Thanks
 
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Sir Gaulen de Loria
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And this is the problem with this situation. Is it a continuous movement without stopping in the middle or is it first my travel action and then the extra ones? Here some examples on both situations:

* Without stopping: I perfom a normal travel action and advance 1 or 2 more. At the end pick up tokens. No foul fate card is drawn. Result: 2 or 3 routes.

I perfom a fast travel action and advance 1 or 2 more. At the end pick up tokens. Foul fate card is drawn. Result: 3 or 4 routes.

In the fast travel doesn't make sense to move 1 additional since this is covered also with a normal one and no foul fate card is drawn. So a fast travel in this case is useful if you want to advance 4 routes in a row only.

* With stopping in middle: Perform my normal travel action or fast, picking up tokens and foul fate card (only fast). Then before resolving any more actions I can advance 1 or 2 routes. Pick tokens again?

-----------------

Better without stopping then?

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Luigi Pasato
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Sir Gaulen wrote:
And this is the problem with this situation. Is it a continuous movement without stopping in the middle or is it first my travel action and then the extra ones?


For me, from the rules, it is clear that it is a continuous movement.

Indeed, my only issue is this, nothing more:

If I move 2/3 areas in total (1 from Travel Action and 1/2 from Teleport), I have to draw a Foul Fate card or not??

I do not see why Teleport could be treated as an exception. I think you have to draw a Foul Fate Card in the cases as above. I don't think the Teleport Card is a way to not draw a Foul Fate Card (for when you move more then 1 area) but instead it is a way to move 3 or 4 areas in total, that is all (and, just so, it is a good advantage after all!)...

But surely I can't say I'm... sure... shake
 
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Sir Gaulen de Loria
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Okay to continuous movement. I agree.

The thing about foul fate card I think it's easier. Since the final result or consequence of the card is to advance the war track once the extra movement is done then I think no foul fate card has to be drawn although you move 3 areas (1 normal + 2 extra). Other thing would be if you use a fast travel (2 fast + 1 or 2 extra). In this case due to the fast travel a foul fate card must be drawn and also the war track needs to be advanced. Otherwise the difficulty would be quiet a lot and I don't want it to be more difficult for the heroes than it is. Always happening bad things... damn it!!

Makes sense?

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Claudio Hornblower
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Sir Gaulen wrote:
Is it a continuous movement without stopping in the middle (...) Better without stopping then?

Not "better" like you could have a choice - this is the correct procedure, as the word "additional" (e.g. in Teleportation) implies (addition = "x+y", not "x then y").

Foul is subordinate to 2-routes Travel action (Rules Reference, page 4, "Foul Fate" 3rd bullet; Learn to play, page 4, "Travel"), so:

- you take Travel action and move 1 route: move 1, no FF card thumbsdown

- you take Travel action and move 1 route, plus 1/2 Teleport: move 2/3, no FF card thumbsdown

- you take Travel action and move 2 routes: move 2, FF card thumbsup

- you take Travel action and move 2 routes, plus 1/2 Teleport: move 3/4, FF card thumbsup

Which is basically what Jan already said. Remember, "When in doubt, interpret strictly" (Totaler Krieg)
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Luigi Pasato
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Sir Gaulen wrote:
Okay to continuous movement. I agree.


Ok, we both agree on this.

Sir Gaulen wrote:
The thing about foul fate card I think it's easier. Since the final result or consequence of the card is to advance the war track once the extra movement is done then I think no foul fate card has to be drawn although you move 3 areas (1 normal + 2 extra).


But why do you think that?
My guess is that if you want to move 3 areas, you have to use the 2 moves of the Travel Action and than you may move 1 or 2 additional areas.
I also think it's unfair if you move just 1 area due to the Travel Action and then 1 or 2 areas with the Teleport Card, just for do not draw the Foul Fate Card.

Sir Gaulen wrote:
Other thing would be if you use a fast travel (2 fast + 1 or 2 extra). In this case due to the fast travel a foul fate card must be drawn and also the war track needs to be advanced.


Yes, If you move 2 areas due to the Travel Action and then you use the Teleport Card, you have to draw the Foul Fate and then, in the region of destination, advance the war track.

Sir Gaulen wrote:
Otherwise the difficulty would be quiet a lot and I don't want it to be more difficult for the heroes than it is. Always happening bad things... damn it!!


I do not think it is particularly difficult. I have used the Teleport Card in the way I have described above and actually is a very strong card just right in this way!

Sir Gaulen wrote:
Makes sense?


Well honestly it does not make too much sense... But maybe it is me. blush
 
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Luigi Pasato
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Mythologem wrote:
Foul is subordinate to 2-routes Travel action (Rules Reference, page 4, "Foul Fate" 3rd bullet; Learn to play, page 4, "Travel")

Ok, I agree the Foul is subordinate to 2-routes Travel action , but also the Teleport Card is subordinate to 2-routes Travel action (and obviously is subordinate to 1-route Travel action as well).

Mythologem wrote:
Which is basically what Jan already said. Remember, "When in doubt, interpret strictly" (Totaler Krieg)

And my problem in this case is that if I interpret strictly I'm more incline to think that you can't use Teleport just to not draw a Foul Fate Card but I can see your logic behind your interpretation...
 
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Luigi Pasato
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I have geekmailed Mr. Trzewiczek.
 
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Claudio Hornblower
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Luigi wrote:
Ok, I agree the Foul is subordinate to 2-routes Travel action , but also the Teleport Card is subordinate to 2-routes Travel action (and obviously is subordinate to 1-route Travel action as well).

Luigi,
I think this is what causes you troubles. It's not obvious at all, and not supported by any written rule. The links are between:

(A) 2-routes + Travel + action (those exact words, that's why I've stressed them)

(B) Teleportation card effects + the above

A and B are 2 entirely separate entities. First you choose what kind of Travel action you're going to perform, being a 1-step or a 2-steps; if, and only if, you take a 2-steps Travel action, you trigger a Foul Fate card draw, period.

Then you may or may not upgrade you movement using Teleportation skill, resulting in whatever movement total amount it may be (2, 3 or 4 routes): if you do so, you must spend a Common Marker and advance the WarTrack (as written).

Luigi wrote:
My guess is that if you want to move 3 areas, you have to use the 2 moves of the Travel Action and than you may move 1 or 2 additional areas.
I also think it's unfair if you move just 1 area due to the Travel Action and then 1 or 2 areas with the Teleport Card, just for do not draw the Foul Fate Card.

Teleportation card is not a Travel action: it's used in the occasion of a Travel action, but they're not the same thing, nor there's a hint of anything like the priority of one above the other in the rulebooks.

So if you take a 1-route Travel action, you don't trigger a Foul Fate card draw, no matter what comes next. Then you can upgrade the routes moved by 1 or 2 via Teleportation ending in a 2 or 3 total movement. What you move and what kind of Travel action you've chosen are, again, two very different concepts.

In your example above, if you want to move 3 routes, you can perfectly and legitimately take, in order:
- 1-route Travel action (which does not trigger a FF card draw), plus
- +2 routes via Teleportation card, resulting in a
- total 3-routes movement
- (and of course, you must pay a Common Marker and advance the WarTrack; the clue token is collected in the destination, that is, the 3rd route space only)

It's not a matter of being "unfair" or whatsnot, those are the rules as written (unless I'm totally wrong, but then you must quote me the right wordings in the books); any extra is a personal interpretation. I hope this helps both you and the OP

Luigi wrote:
I have geekmailed Mr. Trzewiczek.

To me it's clear enough, but having an official reiteration is always positive
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Luigi Pasato
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Thanks Cluadio for your comprehensive and detailed response.

Mythologem wrote:
The links are between:

(A) 2-routes + Travel + action (those exact words, that's why I've stressed them)

(B) Teleportation card effects + the above

A and B are 2 entirely separate entities.


But if they are 2 entirely separate entities, then, while I use (B), may I move along the same route I have just used during (A)?

Mythologem wrote:
To me it's clear enough, but having an official reiteration is always positive


Oh well, one of the good things of BGG is the possibility to ask questions directly to the designers and so, sometimes, I do!
 
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Claudio Hornblower
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Luigi wrote:
But if they are 2 entirely separate entities, then, while I use (B), may I move along the same route I have just used during (A)?

Well no, because albeit they're separate, the common effect is a single Movement triggered by a single Action. Please note that I use the word "separate" meaning of equal value, that is, if you want to move 3 spaces you're not forced to take a full 2-spaces Travel first, as your example lead me to think.

You can move 1-Travel plus 2-Teleport, or 2-Travel plus 1-Teleport (bad idea) - the decision you take for Travel does not influence Teleport, and viceversa (except for the total movement of course).

See Rules Reference, page 6, Movement, 2nd bullet:
"A hero cannot move along the same route twice during the same action"

Keyword is: action. You've not triggered another action: the card is really clear, "When you perform a travel action...": "When" or "In that occasion", so the Teleport is necessarily still part of the same action - it extends that action, so it just makes Triss' movement further, but it's not a supplementary action per se.

Likewise, the red investigation "In Pursuit" task reads: "Perform a travel action that moves you along 2 routes."
To me, you can legitimately combine 1-Travel plus 1-Teleport to fulfill the task with no FF drawing penalty (you're under the same travel action and that action allowed the movement along 2 routes).

A different case is the blue investigation "Road of the Aes Seidhe": "If you have 3 or more Aen Seidhe trait cards, you may move along 1 or 2 routes."
This is not a travel action, so you cannot combine it with Teleport, you don't receive a Foul Fate card if you choose to move 2 routes, and you don't collect a lead token at the destination (because you receive leads at a location after moving during a travel action only).

Luigi wrote:
Oh well, one of the good things of BGG is the possibility to ask questions directly to the designers and so, sometimes, I do!

And it's perfectly legit; in the wargames forums, many designers play in advance and answer the topic directly without solicitations. Let's see what mr. Trzewiczek shall say here
 
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Mike Keegan
United States
Whitman
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baredas wrote:
Sir Gaulen wrote:
Hi guys,

Triss' teleportation. I perform first my travel action, collect tokens, resolve foul fate card if moved two, and then move the extra 1 - 2?


Yes


Based on the discussions here, the answer to this is really 'Not quite'. The consensus is it's continuous movement, so you don't collect tokens and resolve foul fate (if the initial travel action was 2 routes) until AFTER the extra movement, at the final destination.

This is how I was playing it until I grabbed the app version and noticed that was not how it was behaving there, and checked here for clarification. But, as someone mentioned above, the app does it wrong.
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