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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Leader Movement Slingshot and 2 other Rule Questions rss

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Terry Simo
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The Rulebook Movement Example on Pg 16 gives an example of where a moving unit can gain a movement bonus from moving through a leader's hex. The real benefit from this (considering the leader is not moving with the unit) only occurs if this is the next to last hex moved unless you have a string of leaders.

From the rulebook example - if Sgt Biermann was in L8 where the unit started then the unit would have 5MP - move to K8 - "Two" but movement drops down to 4 so only two left and could only go to K7. If Sgt Biermann was in K7, same problem, L8 to K8 - "two", now MP allowance up to 5 for leader, move into K7 - "three" MP total back down to 4 and must stop (needed 2 more to enter Woods). Although if there was another 1 command leader in K7 - the unit would be back up to 2MP left so could move into K6 - "five". Is this correct? Multiple leaders can slingshot the unit forward.

Next Two Questions:

Hero - The Hero counter must always be activated by its own order card? So if I have a stack of Ldr(1), Squad and Hero in a hex and want to advance into melee - I would need two Advance Orders? 1 for LDR/Squad and 1 for Hero?

Firegroup and Fire Orders. In the op fire examples, two adjacent units can be activated with 2 Fire Actions to Op Fire. During the active player's turn, can he play 2 Fire Orders to do the same thing or does each Fire Order have to be resolved seperately.

Thanks for a great game - we've been getting in a scenario a day for the last couple of days.

T-Mo
 
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David desJardins
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I think you understand movement correctly, although there's a typo in your question (you wrote "If Sgt Biermann was in K7" where you mean "K8").

It's correct that another leader can't activate a hero. You could activate the hero and use it to activate the squad. (This is a rule we have had a hard time getting used to. At first we thought you could move a whole group, including multiple leaders, with a single order. Sometimes the low-value leaders seem pretty useless, now, because they can't keep up.)

Because you resolve melee after an Advance order is completed, it's impossible for you to advance two leaders into a single melee. You could advance the leader and the squad into the melee, or the hero and the squad. Not both.

Same statement about resolving one Fire Order at a time. O14.2 is very clear that you complete one Order before playing the next Order. I don't see any example that shows multiple Fire Actions combining to fire together during enemy movement, but I agree that you can do that.
 
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Terry Simo
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David,

Thanks for the comments - I guess you are right on the Melee. Damn, that messed me up yesterday then. I had a Ldr, Squad and Hero and advanced them into Melee so I guess either the Ldr or Hero had to sit tight.

Not sure the one part of my question is answered on firing. If I had a 5 FP squad and 4FP LMG, I can activate the squad and fire both Squad and LMG at one target for 5+1 = 6 FP or fire twice with 5FP and 4FP at same or different target?

T-Mo
 
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David desJardins
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If you activate a unit with a Fire order, then the weapon it's carrying is automatically activated as well. So the unit and weapon can fire either together, or separately.

If you have two units stacked together or adjacent, neither of which is a leader (or both of which are leaders), then, even if you play two Fire cards, you can't have them fire as a group. They can only fire separately, because first you resolve one Fire order, then you resolve the second Fire order.
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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T-Mo wrote:
David,Not sure the one part of my question is answered on firing. If I had a 5 FP squad and 4FP LMG, I can activate the squad and fire both Squad and LMG at one target for 5+1 = 6 FP or fire twice with 5FP and 4FP at same or different target?

T-Mo


You are correct.
 
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Josh Luub
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DaviddesJ wrote:
If you have two units stacked together or adjacent, neither of which is a leader (or both of which are leaders), then, even if you play two Fire cards, you can't have them fire as a group. They can only fire separately, because first you resolve one Fire order, then you resolve the second Fire order.


However, if you are the inactive player, you CAN form a (defensive) fire group with the two units. And it's not just me saying so, Chad said it on CSW:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@80.7QiScQGBC8W.27@.1dd0d...
 
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David desJardins
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squonk wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
If you have two units stacked together or adjacent, neither of which is a leader (or both of which are leaders), then, even if you play two Fire cards, you can't have them fire as a group. They can only fire separately, because first you resolve one Fire order, then you resolve the second Fire order.


However, if you are the inactive player, you CAN form a (defensive) fire group with the two units.


Yes, of course. The rules imply that, and I also said so in the first reply above ("I agree you can do that").
 
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Lee Kennedy
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So to clarify on the Op Fire grouping: once a unit is activated for Op Fire it may combine in a Fire Group with any other unit that is activated for Op Fire regardless of which Op Fire Order activated them. (Subject to the normal rules for forming a Fire Group and assuming all have been activated during the same Move order).
 
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Chad Jensen
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thelivekennedy wrote:
So to clarify on the Op Fire grouping: once a unit is activated for Op Fire it may combine in a Fire Group with any other unit that is activated for Op Fire regardless of which Op Fire Order activated them. (Subject to the normal rules for forming a Fire Group and assuming all have been activated during the same Move order).


Correct.

(what did you do, Lee, go back and read every CC forum? You're a madman! surprise )
 
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Sean McCormick
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So run this movement example by me one more time, because I'm a bit confused as well. What you're saying is that the MP addition is only temporary and it dissipates as soon as the unit leaves the leader's hex, correct? (That's in contrast to something like a road bonus, where you can move down a road with your first MP and it just negates the initial cost of the move, leaving you with a full complement of MPs.)
 
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David desJardins
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seanmac wrote:
hat you're saying is that the MP addition is only temporary and it dissipates as soon as the unit leaves the leader's hex, correct?


Yes.

Quote:
That's in contrast to something like a road bonus, where you can move down a road with your first MP and it just negates the initial cost of the move, leaving you with a full complement of MPs.)


Yes. The rules explicitly state that the road bonus applies for the rest of the unit's movement, if it ever entered a road hex.
 
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Chad Jensen
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Quote:
What you're saying is that the MP addition is only temporary and it dissipates as soon as the unit leaves the leader's hex, correct?

Yes. This is covered in rule 3.3.1.2 -- "as long as those units are in the same hex as the leader" -- as well as in the movement example on page 16 (specifically items F and H).
 
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Lorentz Teigen
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Just to 110% sure i understood this correct.

Say i got a broken unit with 1mp in a hex with a (1)leader.
It can then go into a wood hex (so far its what we have played earlier).
In the wood hex you got a (2) leader waithing. How many movementspoints can the squad use for its next move (only its next move). 2, 1, 0?

Think we earlier have used that it have 1 and get 2 in command bonus so its total is 3. It have already used 2 so 1 is left. But from the above posts i think he actualy have 2 mp to use.
 
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Chad Jensen
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Quote:
Say i got a broken unit with 1mp in a hex with a (1)leader.

I think what you meant to say was "I have a broken unit with a printed Movement of 1 in a hex with a 1-Command leader". Because as long as that squad/team is stacked with a 1-Command leader its ACTUAL Movement is 2.

It's helpful to get in the habit of adding a leader's Command directly to all squad/team stats at all times. For example, a German Rifle Squad stacked with a 2-Command leader doesn't have a Movement of "4"; it has a Movement of "6".

Quote:
It can then go into a wood hex

Yes, provided you're not moving uphill or crossing a wall/hedge/fence.

Quote:
In the wood hex you got a (2) leader waithing. How many movementspoints can the squad use for its next move (only its next move). 2, 1, 0?

Ask yourself this: what's the unit's CURRENT Movement stat? The answer is "3" (1 printed + 2 for Command). The squad has already spent 2 MPs so it therefore has 1 left to spend (which you correctly surmised in your post above).
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Lorentz Teigen
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Thanks for the clarification. Then its just as we have played it

Just got a message from my post office that my package from Game in a box just arrived. So soon we should have the second set of CC:E, M and Para in hands (25% Vat was added but thats well worth it (abouth 250$ total))
 
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