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Subject: Iron Gamer Discussions rss

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Ava Jarvis
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About

This is a thread for Iron Gamers to comment and discuss their thoughts on possible purchases, personal progress, the effect of Iron Gamer on the outlook on life, questions about rules, and other Iron Gamer related stuff.

I don't expect that many posts in the thread, and will provide links to specific messages that the first of each month according to BGG time.

Jonathan (grandslam) has noted that this is like a meta-game and support group all in one. I think this is a very true assessment.

Scores for the End Of January

Official participants:

Ava Jarvis [BilboAtBagEnd]: 2 points
Hilary Hartman [puck4604]: 1 points
Robin Hartman [Helenoftroy]: 1 points
Christopher Onstad [xofour]: 3 points
Jonathan Franklin [grandslam]: 0 points
Antonio Chavez [Mr.Baggins]: -1 points
Gary Webster [gary_webster]: 0 points (no reports yet)

Unofficial participants

Michael Weber [mixo]: -2 points (Unofficial)

Links

Month links:

- January: this post!
- February: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1318928#1318928

More Iron Gamer links:

Iron Gamer rules (last updated 1/20): http://bagginsunderthehill.blogspot.com/2007/01/iron-gamer-r...

Iron Gamer Points Calculator (current version 1.0):
http://bagginsunderthehill.net/ig_calc.html

Iron Gamer Sign-up List: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/18781
 
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Christopher Onstad
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I just thought of another rules clarification question. How does the playing of a game within 3 months work? Does playing have to be with other people? Or by the rules, or by the box? I ask because of Runebound. (which I am going to get expansions for this year I am certain.) The box says 2-6 players. But the rulebook makes mention throughout of 1 player games. And yet, if we are too be Iron Gamers, we should play with other people, after all that is the point of games isn't it? Anyway, just curious as to if there was an official ruling on this point, and I didn't see it in the FAQ.
 
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Ava Jarvis
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xofour wrote:
I just thought of another rules clarification question. How does the playing of a game within 3 months work? Does playing have to be with other people?


Not necessarily. If a game can be played single-player because, well, it can, without doing funky things like playing as a second player or bluffing as a second player or entirely changing the goal of the game, then I count that as a game played.

Many wargames, in fact, have solitaire rules, and Heroscape even has a solitaire variant developed unofficially, but which still preserves the spirit of the game. Most, if not all, adventure games can also be played solitaire, and sometimes they are even best played solitaire (I think Return of the Heroes and its associated expansions/stand-alones are like this). And games that live and die on puzzles are also playable solitaire---Ubongo and Take it Easy/Take it to the Limit are a couple exmaples.

There exist solitaire versions of Carcassonne, in fact, but I tend not to count them since a major element does not exist in them---scoring via meeples, and turns it into a mere connection puzzle game.

If you buy a game and and still play it online, I also count that as having played the game. 'Cause you have, and now you are cementing a relationship with it. Plus sometimes turn by turn games are best recorded on an actual physical copy, like T&E or Reef Encounter, even turn by turn Go, if you have a spare table and no cats or other limber pets. And if you play with other people's copies, that still counts as a play even if you bought the game.

Quote:
And yet, if we are too be Iron Gamers, we should play with other people, after all that is the point of games isn't it?


Definitely the point of many games. Although many people also take the point of games as a chance to study particular problems they enjoy, similar to the atmosphere of Go or Chess, except it's Puerto Rico or Dungeon Twister or even BattleLore, but even that has a play-another-person element.

I will add the ruling to the FAQ sometime later in the week. Also I will add Jon's additional negative points, which is that every three months that a game remains unplayed, you get -1 point. You don't get negative points though after your first play of the game; so I could neglect to play Midgard until April, and I would only get one negative points.

Playing at conventions or mini-conventions is a great way to rack up plays. Too bad BGG.con happens so late in the year, but it means you need to think even harder about your purchases.

Expansions bought must of course be played/combined with the parent game at some point.

I personally have a tendency to buy "I just should buy it" games, such as Shogun and Age of Steam plus various expansions, even though realistically speaking I'm probably not going to get it to the table for a couple years, and a good chance of "never at all"! Bad, bad Bilbo.

I even bought Medici vs. Strozzi even though I didn't like it at BGG.con and nobody I know likes even the sound of it here. That was just sad....
 
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Hilary Hartman
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How do role-playing games fit into our Iron Gamer contest? Should they? Do the same rules apply?

Thanks!
 
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Ava Jarvis
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puck4604 wrote:
How do role-playing games fit into our Iron Gamer contest? Should they? Do the same rules apply?


For consistency's sake I'm going to just focus on what BGG thinks of as "Board Games", even though I know there is a bit of fuzzy overlap at the border between BGG adventure-style games and RPGs. I tend to regard many RPG elements as being books---something that is rare to find in any game, at least at that level of detail.

Thus, RPGs do not count.

Will update the FAQ to this effect.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Ava Jarvis
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FAQ has been updated.
 
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Hilary Hartman
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Temptation is all around me!

Yesterday Robin and I visited our FLGS. The money in my wallet was scorching my butt! I touched and caressed a variety of Eurogames, wargames, and miniatures. I couldn't help myself.

However, in the end Robin bought Puerto Rico (which she had been wanting) and I bought a RPG supplement.

I have ordered one game which should arrive any day now: the old Metagame Warp War. And a game I preordered last year will be arriving in the next week or so.

This morning I found myself "window shopping" Boards & Bits...no purchases, mind you, but I found my mouse trigger finger itching over the "place order" button...but the Iron Gamer in me cried out at the last moment and I relented.

This is going to be much harder than I thought, but--to quote an old disco song--"I will survive."
 
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Robin
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I actually didn't realize that Puerto Rico was my purchase since we both already mentioned that we should get it now that we have other people to game with. But that would explain why we didn't get anything else and Hilary would only reply, "if you want it" when I picked up Puerto Rico. So, I think he did very well.

I did well too! I almost got Puerto Rico AND Midgard but maybe next month. So, I guess I have joined Iron Gamer too. I like this idea to limit purchase to allow time to play the games.
 
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Hilary Hartman
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Welcome aboard, luv.

And about Puerto Rico...umm...err...

blush
 
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James Ludlow
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Am I not seeing it, or do the rules make no mention of gaining points for playing games?
 
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Ava Jarvis
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jdludlow wrote:
Am I not seeing it, or do the rules make no mention of gaining points for playing games?


Hello James, welcome abord!

No points are gained for playing games, but points are lost for NOT playing your new purchases.

So if you are like me, and leap on every CCG you can buy but don't have an actual audience to handle (for instance, some Japanese CCGs have been catching my eye for no good reason, and not having Japanese-reading friends/players makes it even worse) you will score a negative point for every three months that go by without a play.

They are forgiving in that once you've played a game, you don't need to play it again this year and will not get further negative points.

All in all, there are more ways to lose points than get them, but you can get points for not buying a game or expansion in a particular month, which can let you "spend" them on later months/risks/antics.
 
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James Ludlow
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BilboAtBagEnd wrote:
Hello James, welcome abord!


Thanks for clearing up my question. I have no intention of joining this, as I think that it's fairly silly. Hopefully you guys have fun with it.

 
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Ava Jarvis
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jdludlow wrote:
I have no intention of joining this, as I think that it's fairly silly. Hopefully you guys have fun with it.


It's not silly to people budgeting or those with so many games that it's starting to encroach on personal space.

Plus that which does not kill you makes you stronk.
 
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Ava Jarvis
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The first post has been updated with the final participants.

Good luck, everybody!
 
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Antonio Chavez
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Man this is hard. Do you want to know how hard it is? I'll tell you how hard it is.

On January 9th, I was lounging around in the Geek, looking at all the games that I long for but have no real expectation of getting. Things such as Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage or Dune. Or smaller but hard to get items, such as, say Liberté. On this particular day, I was looking at Liberté's forums; specifically all of the "Oh my God, is it hard to get this game or what" and all of the "Oh my God, is this game fantastic or what", and even the "Oh my God, would Mr.Baggins' friend really love this game and would he be really, really happy of only he could get it for less than an arm an a leg". You know, those posts.

I go back to the main page, and a big number under the main picture catches my eye. "47.95" it says. I look again. "Liberté - $47.95...at Funagain Games, World's Best Game Source, Since 1997". Gosh. I click on it. "It's gotta be a typo", I say to myself as the page loads. And there it is, in all its glory, Funagain's Liberté page with a huge "Order now" button. I'd never placed an order so fast in my life. And, just to feel less guilty abour the huge shipping charges to my country, I add "Elephant in a Porcelain Shop", a card game I've been really curious about. I place the order, and I'm as happy as I can be. I mean, one of my (admitedly, lesser) Grails, just like that and even, well, not cheap, but reasonably priced.

One day later, I stumbled upon the Iron Gamers geeklist. Now, I've gone from 0 to nearly 90 games in six months time. And not all of them have been cheap. So far my wife hasn't been really suspicious, but I've recently noticed her staring at the growing pile of boxes. I dread the "Dear, just out of curiosity, exactly how much have you spent on board games?". My wife is probably the coolest wife in the planet, but the again, she's also a mom, and moms are, you know, scary. Plus, the collection is a bit larger than it needs to be (i.e. there are several games that I haven't even played, and a heck of a lot of great games I've only played once. I mean, we've only played Wallenstein twice! That's a crime, I'm telling you).

My point being, the Iron Gamers was exactly what I needed at the time. So I joined happily, decided to mark Liberté as my game for the month, and to beg for leniency into counting Elephant as my expansion. It's just a card game, and it does expand my, er, card games collection, I guess. (I'm still waiting for a ruling on that one... please, be kind, my dear namesake). And I joined. I have plenty of games now, plus a shipment with 8 more to arrive (placed on the last week of December, am I psychic or what?), plus 8 games on GMT's P500 and one preorder at Multiman. That ought to keep me sane, right?

I go back to Funagain's page, and discover my order is "waiting to be reviewed by a representative". I get a bad feeling about it. I go to Funagain's Liberté page and guess what, Out of Stock. "So", I say to myself, "either I got myself the last one, or it was all a mistake and they'll let me know any day". Feeling a bit deflated, I went by my business. To make a long story short, it took nearly a week for them to let me know my shipment was ready to go (it was not a case of bad service; as I'm in a different country, they have to quote shipment price, and it's very clearly stated in their site).

Yesterday morning, I was checking more games, and saw a couple that looked really cool. I was recommended several games for my group in another thread; Pax Romana and Sword of Rome sound really cool. And Here I Stand. Plus, I do not yet have Combat Commander, and it looks oh so pretty. But wait, I'm an Iron Gamer, right?

And then it happened. I thought, "hey, they still haven't confirmed my Funagain order. It was probably a mistake; I'm sure someone is right now rehearsing in front of a mirror his best contrite voice before calling to let me know that there is no such thing as a sub-50 dollars Liberté".

And here's the shocker. For a moment, I HOPED it was a mistake. If they cancelled my order, I would be free to order something else. Maybe Combat Commander, that looks oh so pretty. Yes, to my eternal shame, I WANTED them to tell me that one of my (lesser) Grails was not available, just so I could buy something else.

Really, I need help.

(FYI, they confirmed later yesterday that yes, they indeed had Liberté, the price was right and it would be on its way to my grubby little hands. And I'm happy as a clam. Only... you know, scared of that dark side I had never seen in me).



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Christopher Onstad
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Mr.Baggins wrote:
Man this is hard. Do you want to know how hard it is? I'll tell you how hard it is.

Yesterday morning, I was checking more games, and saw a couple that looked really cool. I was recommended several games for my group in another thread; Pax Romana and Sword of Rome sound really cool. And Here I Stand. Plus, I do not yet have Combat Commander, and it looks oh so pretty. But wait, I'm an Iron Gamer, right?

And then it happened. I thought, "hey, they still haven't confirmed my Funagain order. It was probably a mistake; I'm sure someone is right now rehearsing in front of a mirror his best contrite voice before calling to let me know that there is no such thing as a sub-50 dollars Liberté".

And here's the shocker. For a moment, I HOPED it was a mistake. If they cancelled my order, I would be free to order something else. Maybe Combat Commander, that looks oh so pretty. Yes, to my eternal shame, I WANTED them to tell me that one of my (lesser) Grails was not available, just so I could buy something else.





Wow, congratulations on the aquisition, but oooh that sounds like a scary feeling. But, the nice thing about doing this publicly is that we can all help each other out and share stories like this. I am so glad I don't let myself buy stuff online, that would make this so much more difficult.

So far this has been not to difficult for me. Mostly because I have not had any time to spend at the stores, and I have never allowed myself to shop online. Of course this Sunday is going to be a different story. My daughter has zoo teens for 4 hours, which means that we have to go to the thrift stores while we wait for her to finish. (cause it's an hour drive home from the zoo, so we just stay in town and waste time until she is done.) Wish me luck.
 
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Ava Jarvis
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xofour wrote:
Mr.Baggins wrote:

And here's the shocker. For a moment, I HOPED it was a mistake. If they cancelled my order, I would be free to order something else. Maybe Combat Commander, that looks oh so pretty. Yes, to my eternal shame, I WANTED them to tell me that one of my (lesser) Grails was not available, just so I could buy something else.


Wow, congratulations on the aquisition, but oooh that sounds like a scary feeling. But, the nice thing about doing this publicly is that we can all help each other out and share stories like this. I am so glad I don't let myself buy stuff online, that would make this so much more difficult.


Yes, buying online is definitely more convenient, but also encourages one to buy more. The impulse button can be pushed more often and much faster.

I have seen that "dark side" of me often enough when I make CCG purchases, which run the gamut from "new product buy impulse" to "must have seriously valued card at any cost, and four of them at that" and let's not forget "this card would way complement my other cards, must have at any cost, four at least" or even "I must complete all the cards in my favorite color/faction, possibly plural".

Mostly Iron Gamer has stopped me making more CCG purchases. I still love the constructable varying powers meta-mechanic, but I do my best to get it from more limited venues, like Blue Moon and Heroscape and various dead CCGs. There's a big difference between buying a $16 Blue Moon deck every two months, a $50 Heroscape wave every three months, $100 of Middle Earth CCG cards a year... versus $500 worth of starter/booster boxes every month. (Of course, you don't have to do this with CCGs. It's just hard for me, personally, not to.)

Now if I want to buy a CCG, even if I can buy quite a lot within the Iron Gamer rules, it means I can't get other games, and this stops me. And the other games are frankly more important, which is what a lot of this has done for me... clear up my priorities.

It's also started making me want to replay games that have been sitting in my collection for a year and not been touched. Or never been touched, as a matter of fact... I bought both Arkham Horror expansions published so far and haven't used either one. I think I didn't even punch one of them.
 
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Ava Jarvis
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xofour wrote:

So far this has been not to difficult for me. Mostly because I have not had any time to spend at the stores, and I have never allowed myself to shop online. Of course this Sunday is going to be a different story. My daughter has zoo teens for 4 hours, which means that we have to go to the thrift stores while we wait for her to finish. (cause it's an hour drive home from the zoo, so we just stay in town and waste time until she is done.) Wish me luck.


Good luck! Perhaps all you will see are old battered copies of Yahtzee and Connect 4.

 
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Steve Bernhardt
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puck4604 wrote:
How do role-playing games fit into our Iron Gamer contest? Should they? Do the same rules apply?

Thanks!


Hilary, yes, they do count. You know how expensive RPG stuff is.... This is a good houserule for you

I'm a lurking Iron Gamer
 
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After just watching the Tide of Iron video, all I can say is I'm glad they delayed the launch. I know what my February game is gonna be... and I know I'll have no problem playing that puppy.

Which brings me to... can we substitute our expansion for the month for a small game? Say, an under-10-dollars card game? I don't really buy expansions... (which will probably change after Tide of Iron, but I'm trying to focus on February here)
 
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Ava Jarvis
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Mr.Baggins wrote:
After just watching the Tide of Iron video, all I can say is I'm glad they delayed the launch. I know what my February game is gonna be... and I know I'll have no problem playing that puppy.


Excellent choice!


Quote:
Which brings me to... can we substitute our expansion for the month for a small game? Say, an under-10-dollars card game? I don't really buy expansions... (which will probably change after Tide of Iron, but I'm trying to focus on February here)


The best option is to wait for a month where you don't want any other stand-alone games and buy two small card games, since they count as one-half of a standard game.

Expansions is still expansions, not stand-alone games. They are there as the second option in a month because they let people get more shelf life out of games they already have. Stand-alones typically don't do this.

Another option is to save up your "didn't buy an expansion" months for points (1 point per month) instead of buying the card game. This way it's easier to end up with a non-negative score, even if at some point you decide to (with the new Negative Scoring rules which now do allow for saving credit at loan-shark rates) buy a second stand-alone game in some other month, which is -3 points.
 
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Hilary Hartman
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wargamer66 wrote:
puck4604 wrote:
How do role-playing games fit into our Iron Gamer contest? Should they? Do the same rules apply?

Thanks!


Hilary, yes, they do count. You know how expensive RPG stuff is.... This is a good houserule for you

I'm a lurking Iron Gamer


Heh. You're right, the RPG stuff can get just as expensive (if not moreso) than some boardgames. I did buy a Classic Traveller supplement the other day ("The Double Adventures 1-6") which set me back $27. I buy them so few and far between...it's not often I come across the "old school" RPG stuff...unless I go looking for it...

ninja

Boardgaming news: we have now played Puerto Rico, which we just got last week. It was a lot of fun, and we intend to play it with our friends Matt and Kathleen soon.

I ordered the old Metagame WarpWar from the backstock at Decision Games two weeks ago and it came in on Tuesday. While the game is easy enough itself, I don't know if Robin will like the different mechanics involved in the actual gameplay.

Speaking of Tuesdays, this upcoming one will find UPS delivering the Dungeons & Dragons Board Game bundle from Paizo which I ordered way back in October. I offer this link to the thread which I started way back when as a defense to any shenanigans on my part:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1131549#1131549

Otherwise, we've had a nasty uncommon cold virus going through the house and no game playing (or rules reading) has taken place for almost five days.

soblue
 
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Ava Jarvis
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The FAQ for the official rules has been updated with a ruling on the Blue Moon City Spielbox expansion, which has the unfortunate book-keeping quality of being split across two magazines several months apart, in different years (2006 and 2007).

Basically, it boils down to:

- The first time you buy the expansion in 2007, either half, counts as your expansion slot for that month.

- The second time you buy the expansion in 2007, either half, this is a free expansion for you.

- There are no third and fourth times....

This covers:

Case #1: I buy the first half in January 2007. It uses an expansion slot in January. When I buy the second half in August, it doesn't count as the August expansion slot and is in a sense "free".

Case #2: I buy the first half in December 2006. I buy the second half in July 2007. This does count as my expansion slot in July. (This goes back to the "first buy" rule, even though I won't have an opportunity for a free second buy.) Personally this case applies to myself.

Case #3: I buy the second half in August 2007. This counts as my expansion slot for August. I buy the first half in December 2007, and this half doesn't count as my expansion slot.

Case #4: I buy the second half in August 2007, and the first half (somehow) in January 2008. The expansion still counts for the slot in August.

Case #5: Take Case #4 and add in additional participation in Iron Gamer 2008. Does it count for Iron Gamer 2008? Hmmmm. I'll cross this bridge when I come to it.

Other questions:

Q. How does this apply to buying multiple Heroscape (or other game) expansion wave copies over several months, that are part of the same wave and are arguably the same expansion? What about CCG expansions?

A. They still count as normal. So if I buy all of Heroscape: Dawn of Darkness in one go in January, then decide to pick up an extra pack of Samurai Archers in February, I have still taken up both my January and February expansion slots.

Q. That sounds inconsistent!

A. Any wave is released altogether at once, simultaneously, so they do not fall under the "expansion publication split across multiple months" case, which is what this particular BMC expansion ruling is really for. If both halves of the BMC expansion were available at the same time, this ruling would not be necessary.

Long story short: game publishers and game magazine publishers, PLEASE, for the love of your choice of deity/deities, don't split a single expansion across several months. Thank yew.
 
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Ava Jarvis
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Quote:
Speaking of Tuesdays, this upcoming one will find UPS delivering the Dungeons & Dragons Board Game bundle from Paizo which I ordered way back in October. I offer this link to the thread which I started way back when as a defense to any shenanigans on my part:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1131549#1131549


I believe you. I have wanted to get my hands on a copy for a while, but it's not likely to get played here, plus I have a surplus of RPG-style games.... although admittedly not as RPG as that one is.

Quote:
Otherwise, we've had a nasty uncommon cold virus going through the house and no game playing (or rules reading) has taken place for almost five days.

soblue


I got something too. My blog hasn't been updated for 10 days. Siiigh. I'm on the tail end of it, so that's nice...
 
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Jonathan Franklin
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This is brutal.

I made a trade for Blue Moon City, Hey, That's My Fish & TtR 1910.

Part of the trade was a $25 gift certificate. The trader included $25 in cash and used the Gift Certificate, which makes total sense.

Little did he know that Iron Gamer rules distinguish between gift certificates and case when trading, so beware.

My buy for the month was a cheap Ruse & Bruise, because we like Citadels, Castle, and others of its ilk for bedtime games.

My expansion will be Blue Moon City tiles.

So far, I have passed up several great deals for games I would have bought, had it not been for Iron Gamers.

Cheers. Now I have to spend $25 on books about games. Abbott's New Card Games, here I come!

How should the Blue Moon Promo cards be treated?

How about getting things with Tanga points or Geek Gold?

If I end the year with a score of 0, is that positive, negative, or other?

- Jonathan
 
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