Lochi Lochi
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Hi,

I'm thinking about asking a friend who's going to Essen to pick up this game for me, but the information I get here on BGG seems to be related only to the first edition, could someone tell me the differences between those two?

Thanks!
 
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Jack Francisco
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The biggest differences are the color-scheme changes (black-red-white for 1st, color for 2nd) and the fact that miniatures are included in the 2nd edition.
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owen anthony vaughan
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and the 2-player game.
 
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Nathan Ehlers
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The rules are supposed to be the same, but yeah, lots of graphic redesigns, plastic minis instead of wood blocks, and the inclusion of a 2p map and rules in the new edition.
 
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Danny Perello
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There are definitely rules differences, though some may be due to accidental omissions in the 2nd Eadition rule book.

What I've found so far:

Healing
- 1st E: Monster must be hidden to heal.
- 2nd E: No such restriction.

Creating Bloobs
- 1st E: When creating 2nd or 3rd Bloob, if not placed in same or adjacent city after placing 2nd Create token then once 3rd Create token is placed Bloob must be placed away from other Bloobs.
- 2nd E: No such restriction.

Attacking Humans or City
- 1st E: Units may be destroyed in any order.
- 2nd E: First destroy any Armour, then Infantry, finally Heroes.

Jet-Fighter
- 1st E: Return to stock after use.
- 2nd E: Not specified, though may be inferred by weird wording.

A-Bomb
- 1st E: Must target city with at least 1 monster present. Damaged monsters become revealed if previously hidden.
- 2nd E: Not specified if monster must be present. First remove all military from targeted city. Damaged monsters stay hidden.

Scoring City Tiles
- 1st E: 5 VPs for 0-1 damage.
- 2nd E: 5 VPs for 0-2 damage.


This last one I'm not sure is correct, but this is my interpretation after examining both rule sets.

Attacking Bloobs
- 1st E: Place damage markers on tokens to track damage individually.
- 2nd E: 3rd damage token placed in monster box kills Bloob being attacked, wether it specifically had been damaged previously or not. If another Bloob is in the same city any excess damage carries over, otherwise excess damage is lost.

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Aaron Silverman
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Supposedly the 2-player game is only included in Kickstarter copies. Is that no longer the case?
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Danny Perello
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DJ Kuul A wrote:
Supposedly the 2-player game is only included in Kickstarter copies. Is that no longer the case?

No. All copies of this print run contain the 2-player version of the game. Bit of a sore spot for some backer.

There should be plenty of copies to go around as well. Approximately 1800 copies were backed, but 4000 were actually produced, so there really is no shortage of games for the general public to buy.

Personally I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this turn of events. I am very pleased that more people will be able to get and play the 2-player version so I'll just concentrate on that aspect and let everything else slide...
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Aaron Silverman
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Ah. I generally never get worked up over other people getting something, but in this case I've had three years to get antsy.
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Todd
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Relax wrote:
There are definitely rules differences, though some may be due to accidental omissions in the 2nd Eadition rule book.

What I've found so far:

Healing
- 1st E: Monster must be hidden to heal.
- 2nd E: No such restriction.

Creating Bloobs
- 1st E: When creating 2nd or 3rd Bloob, if not placed in same or adjacent city after placing 2nd Create token then once 3rd Create token is placed Bloob must be placed away from other Bloobs.
- 2nd E: No such restriction.

Attacking Humans or City
- 1st E: Units may be destroyed in any order.
- 2nd E: First destroy any Armour, then Infantry, finally Heroes.

Jet-Fighter
- 1st E: Return to stock after use.
- 2nd E: Not specified, though may be inferred by weird wording.

A-Bomb
- 1st E: Must target city with at least 1 monster present. Damaged monsters become revealed if previously hidden.
- 2nd E: Not specified if monster must be present. First remove all military from targeted city. Damaged monsters stay hidden.

Scoring City Tiles
- 1st E: 5 VPs for 0-1 damage.
- 2nd E: 5 VPs for 0-2 damage.


This last one I'm not sure is correct, but this is my interpretation after examining both rule sets.

Attacking Bloobs
- 1st E: Place damage markers on tokens to track damage individually.
- 2nd E: 3rd damage token placed in monster box kills Bloob being attacked, wether it specifically had been damaged previously or not. If another Bloob is in the same city any excess damage carries over, otherwise excess damage is lost.




I feel almost all of these changes make the game worse. I will stick with the first edition rules.
 
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Danny Perello
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Falcons wrote:
I feel almost all of these changes make the game worse. I will stick with the first edition rules.

I do think the healing rules are better in the first edition, but the VPs from cities, A-Bomb rules and order in which military is destroyed I prefer from second edition, though I've only played three times so it's hard to say with any certainty yet.
 
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Todd
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How can a monster stay hidden when you drop an A-Bomb on it? Attacking or being attacked seems to always happen when someone is not hidden. It does not make sense to me and I love the game.

VPs for the cities is interesting, if it balances well. That one may be worth looking into....

The military being destroyed in a fixed order seems unnecessary.

Just my opinion. I plan on selling my new edition and keeping the original (I also prefer the original art).

 
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Danny Perello
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Yet another difference:

Pass Tokens
1st E: If placed one round and everyone doesn't pass, you must collect it the next round.
2nd E: Not specified. This, I think, is one of the biggest problems with 2nd edition rules, though it may have simply been forgotten like so many other things.
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Danny Perello
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Falcons wrote:
How can a monster stay hidden when you drop an A-Bomb on it? Attacking or being attacked seems to always happen when someone is not hidden. It does not make sense to me and I love the game.

VPs for the cities is interesting, if it balances well. That one may be worth looking into....

The military being destroyed in a fixed order seems unnecessary.

Just my opinion. I plan on selling my new edition and keeping the original (I also prefer the original art).


I don't have a problem with a monster staying hidden if damaged, from a thematic sense at least. I do have a problem with dropping a bomb on a city that does not contain a revealed monster though.

I do think city VPs works better as it is way too easy to simply run around and do a couple damage to most cities without any real effort.

Destroying Infantry after Armour makes it more likely that they'll get to shoot when a monster attacks. I'm guessing destroying Heroes last is meant to be thematic...

If I owned a first edition I definitely wouldn't switch to second edition either.
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Todd
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One last difference....the 1st edition doesn't weigh a ton. surprise
 
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Bay Chang
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Re: Passing
Quote:
Pass Tokens
1st E: If placed one round and everyone doesn't pass, you must collect it the next round.
2nd E: Not specified. This, I think, is one of the biggest problems with 2nd edition rules, though it may have simply been forgotten like so many other things.

The first paragraph of the Pass Action rules implies that you do not need to collect it next round -- you can still perform actionS (plural) in later turnS:

Quote:
Rather than taking a token or piece you can place your Pass marker in an Action box of your choice. This is regarded as passing. However, you can still perform actions in later turns.

Re: Bloob damage
Quote:
Attacking Bloobs
- 1st E: Place damage markers on tokens to track damage individually.
- 2nd E: 3rd damage token placed in monster box kills Bloob being attacked, wether it specifically had been damaged previously or not. If another Bloob is in the same city any excess damage carries over, otherwise excess damage is lost.

There are rules embedded in the "The Monsters" section on the last page of the rulebook that aren't mentioned anywhere else (primarily for Kiddoo). But notably, the paragraph here on the Bloob contradicts the earlier rules on the Bloob being damaged:

Quote:
Every three damage will destroy one of your Bloobs. Only the Bloob under attack suffers damage, so any excess hits are wasted.

Edit: The Bloob damage contradiction is being discussed, with some possible ways to handle it, in this thread: Damaging multiple Bloobs.
 
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Danny Perello
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baychang wrote:
Re: Passing
Quote:
Pass Tokens
1st E: If placed one round and everyone doesn't pass, you must collect it the next round.
2nd E: Not specified. This, I think, is one of the biggest problems with 2nd edition rules, though it may have simply been forgotten like so many other things.

The first paragraph of the Pass Action rules implies that you do not need to collect it next round -- you can still perform actionS (plural) in later turnS:

Quote:
Rather than taking a token or piece you can place your Pass marker in an Action box of your choice. This is regarded as passing. However, you can still perform actions in later turns.

The problem with having rules that imply things rather than state them is how open it leaves things to interpretation.

The way the rules on passing appear in the 1st edition rules leaves, in my mind, only one slight ambiguity. It is very clear that you can simply pass if you like, or place a pass marker in an action box. It also states that passing in one round does not prevent you from taking further actions later in the round. If you place your pass marker one turn you must remove it on your next turn and perform that action, provided the round comtinues. This still counts as passing. The weird thing here is that is says you must remove it and perform the action. Does that mean you both have to remove the pass marker (no question there) but also are forced to perform the chosen action even if you don't want to now? *sigh*

In the 2nd edition, specifics are left out, so confusion enters. It states that if you have your pass marker in an action box you can remove it to perform that action. "Can" may mean you have the choice, but it can also mean you simply now have the ability. Yarghhh. Bad choice of word there.
 
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Bay Chang
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Oh, that's something I didn't consider -- that you could place your pass token, next round remove your pass token (taking the action), and then if everyone hasn't passed yet, continue taking normal actions in future rounds.

Do you prefer the first edition rule of requiring you to remove your pass token the turn after you place it, and if so why? (I don't have any insight either way.)
 
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Danny Perello
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baychang wrote:
Oh, that's something I didn't consider -- that you could place your pass token, next round remove your pass token (taking the action), and then if everyone hasn't passed yet, continue taking normal actions in future rounds.

Do you prefer the first edition rule of requiring you to remove your pass token the turn after you place it, and if so why? (I don't have any insight either way.)

I prefer the 1st edition. Passing to get more actions is a very inefficient way of going about things as it requires two turns to do a single action, one to place the marker, another to retrieve it. Because of this placing the pass marker is usually only done near the end of the round, and often the other players will, upon seeing the first pass marker come out, all pass as well because they really don't want that player to collect, say, another Attack Token. If you can place and then retrieve any time later, you could place your pass token at the very beginning of a round, thus ensuring that any time later you would still get to perform the chosen action.

This may seem a bit convoluted, but stick with me here. Let's say in a three player game there are 10 Attack Tokens in a given round and you are going second. If everyone grabs Attack Tokens one after another, the first player will get 4 and the other two will get 3. Then, if you place your pass marker in the Attack Action box, the other two player could do the same and the round ends. If, however, you could place your pass marker first, when the Attack Tokens run out you will still have drawn 3 but your pass marker will already be out guaranteeing you a 4th token.

Yikes. I hope all that makes sense. Essentially forcing the pass marker to be collected on your next turn makes it more difficult to use, and I think in this case that's a good thing. I could be wrong...
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