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Subject: Just how serious? rss

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Drew Bowling
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Civilization is one of those games that I feel bad that I missed because I'm so new(ish) to the hobby (heck, that game was made before I was born). I've always thought it would be cool to have a copy of the game. Well, obviously I've been excited about Mega Civilization, but instead of getting a reprint of an old game, I'm getting a labroiously crafted, wooden-case, 5 bajillioin component, limited edition, $200 (I think? Or it is $100) reimagining of the game.

So my question is this: how serious do you have to be about this game (or board gaming in general) to consider picking up a copy of Mega Civilization? I'm a college student without steady income (but with a good stash of residual graduation money)- I don't know what my life will look like in 10 or 20 years and if that will mean I can play Mega Civilization. But at the same time, I don't want to miss out on this game twice.

Ugh. Any thoughts?
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Ancestral Hamster
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As a former fan of Advanced Civilization, my take is "don't bother." It was a good game in its day, but game design has advanced since then. What fired Advanced Civilization for me was Clash of Cultures, which gives the civ-building experience in about half the time of Advanced Civilization (that assumes experienced AdCiv players as well, otherwise novices will slow the game down radically). Gameplay is more varied for Clash of Cultures than AdCiv, with changing map layouts for each game. Of course, Clash is not attempting a more "historical" approach like AdCiv with its real world map of the Middle East and Mediterranean.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/40765/clash-cultures

Still, you may have doubts. In that case, my other thought is that it's better to regret the doing, than regretting not taking action. If it turns out that Mega Civilization is an expensive white elephant, there will probably be someone out there who missed the opportunity and will take it off your hands.
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André Heines
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I guess, you'll be able to resell easily, if you keep the game near mint condition. You won't lose money, I'd say.

But usually I'd go for "test first" at such a price, or at least watch a gameplay video or two.
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Mil Myman
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Well, if you can get 17 friends to chip in, it's less than $12 apiece.

sthrjo wrote:
But I think the theme is rather strange: Long-distance trading was not existing long ago, with the exception of luxury goods on the silk road, staring and ending in areas that hardly knew the other one existed, and some tee business in south Asia. Civ games where building material is hauled around the world would not be thematic. But of course I have not played this.

In regular/Advanced Civ, this isn't a problem. All the areas are able to reach each other without too much difficulty.

In Mega Civ, this might be a problem or not - we don't know yet. I asked about this, but nobody answered yet. I remember "The Civilization Project" which used a similar "mega" map, that did have some trading restrictions. Players on the far eastern end could not trade with players on the far western end, until they got some advance that allowed for longer-distance trading and travel. I think Mega Civ may have rules about this as well.
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John Bradshaw
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Miller4h9 wrote:
So my question is this: how serious do you have to be about this game (or board gaming in general) to consider picking up a copy of Mega Civilization? I'm a college student without steady income


I always say that until you've played both of the Francis Tresham masterpieces, Civilization and 1830: Railways & Robber Barons you can't call yourself a proper gamer!

However...

No - in your situation I wouldn't recommend you bust a gut to get hold of Mega Civ. The original was a truly great game. The first game to introduce the concept of a tech tree for example - such an awesome concept and a major feature of almost all Civ games since. I introduced this 35 year old game to my group recently, two of whom said they disliked long games. EIGHT hours later, and unfinished, everyone LOVED it! If this new game were a reprint of the original at a "normal" price level, I'd say don't hesitate, but at this price level, and as a student, it's hard to recommend you committing a major portion of your budget to any game. (Don't let me stop you if you can't resist though! I'm sure this new version is a great game.)

Civ and Adv Civ are still obtainable new(!!) if you look hard enough. I bought a copy a couple of years ago from Print and Play Productions. Not cheap but less than mega civ, beautifully done, and a brand new item - not a battered copy such as you might get if you obtained it 2nd hand.

https://boardgamegeek.com/user/Howitzer_120mm

My own favourite Civ game of all is Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization which traces it's lineage back to Tresham's original game. It's currently being reimplemented as Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization. The new version is a fraction of the price for mega civ. It might be worth checking out - very highly regarded on the Geek, but no game satisfies everyone, so it's always best to try before you buy if possible.

Once again - don't let me put you off Mega Civ if the urge overcomes you - good luck!


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Brian McCarty
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Given your situation I'd lean towards NO
It is expensive and likely not got a lot of plays (though you may be able to get more plays in in college than when you have a job and other responsibilities)

I've played Advanced Civ ~4 times, and have looked into getting it. I have not seen it for much less than this version.

I'd go to a convention and play it to see how much you like it. The best thing this has VS through the ages is most stuff happens simultaneously. I know someone who made a move in TtA, walked home, had lunch, and came back and it was still not his turn (this was with new players, and I heard the new version streamlines things a bit)

Nations is also worth considering.

I'm making a guess that not all 3000 copies will be gone quickly.

Brian
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Michael Berg
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The game is 200 Euros, which translates into $225. Add in shipping from Europe, and you're easily talking putting out $300.

Instead, I'd recommend purchasing:

Empires: Age of Discovery
Through the Ages
Twilight Imperium
Civilization (Fantasy Flight)
504

For about the same cost.
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mfl134
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CasualSax wrote:
The game is 200 Euros, which translates into $225. Add in shipping from Europe, and you're easily talking putting out $300.

Instead, I'd recommend purchasing:

Empires: Age of Discovery
Through the Ages
Twilight Imperium
Civilization (Fantasy Flight)
504

For about the same cost.


but I already have those
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Michael Berg
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Hahaha. But honestly, you have 1150 games to Drew's 51. Slightly different boat.
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The games listed here Clash of Cultures, TTA, Nations, TI3, ect do not scratch the same itch that Civ/Adv Civ/Mega Civ will scratch.

In your case I would pass on it. Not because these other games do what it does better, but because that is a monster price tag for a game that will seldom see the table.

If you had 10 people that would play with you then of course it is another story all together.
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Drew Bowling
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Well, I do have serious intentions of getting the new TtA (I've been waiting for about a year...), and I also hope to get TI3 and Clash of Cultures at some point. Ah well. I don't need Civilization, and it seems like the consensus is if you don't need it, don't get it (although a lot of people are getting it anyway ).

Hopefully one of these days we can have a low-budget production of Civilization... but instead we're cursed with this fantastic looking product that is unfortuantely out of my budget.
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Magic Octopus
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This is an interesting topic and I've struggled with it as well.

I have come to the conclusion that for every 1 game that I missed out on due to lack of time or money there are 20 games that I'd like to try. There will never be a time when I find that I have played every interesting games in the world.

I think you made the right choice.

Unless you have lots of "extra" money and storage space, you shouldn't buy games unless you know they are going to see the table.

I'd say the exception is when you can acquire a used copy for a low price. I researched Android and concluded that it would be a game that I'd like. The 60€ MSRP, and the fact that I didn't know when I'd get to play it, held me back for a couple of years. When I saw a near mint used copy for 20€ I jumped. After owning the game for several weeks I still haven't played it, but I don't regret buying it.
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Walter Kolczynski
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Miller4h9 wrote:
Well, I do have serious intentions of getting the new TtA (I've been waiting for about a year...), and I also hope to get TI3 and Clash of Cultures at some point. Ah well. I don't need Civilization, and it seems like the consensus is if you don't need it, don't get it (although a lot of people are getting it anyway ).

Hopefully one of these days we can have a low-budget production of Civilization... but instead we're cursed with this fantastic looking product that is unfortuantely out of my budget.

Your best bet is to attend a convention and join a game there. Read the rules and watch tutorial videos first and make sure they are okay with new players, but this way you can try it without buying it or have to organize a bunch of people to play.
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Jeffrey Smith
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Back in the 90's my wife bought me a copy of Advanced Civilization as a birthday present. I knew at the time that, given the depth and game length, it was unlikely I'd ever get people to a table to play it. So we returned it. Now I look at this and what was true then is still true today.

Sorry, that had nothing to do with the OP. Just thinking out loud as I tend to find myself tempted by big, deluxe, potentially rare games.
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Dan Lokemoen
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I don't think Civ/Adv Civ were very good games. They were a watershed moment in game design, introducing more than one significant game innovation that has affected computer and board gaming ever since, so I don't mean to run the games down. However, too much of the game centers around calamities, which are sort of distributed randomly and bring anti-fun, but can be mitigated by players who carefully perform a not-fun math-and-memory exercise. Also, some civilizations run into early choke points on the advancement track that make them either automatic or not fun to play. I always felt there were awesome things about Civ, but it was generally not worth the considerable effort.

That said, if you want to trap a dozen dudes in a room for a long day of ordering pizzas and getting your game on, [Adv] Civ does offer a meta-game experience that is tough to replicate (though tough to organize in the first place even if you live in an all-male college dorm). If you have ever wanted a game that is more of an experience than a game, this is one way to go.
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Dan Lokemoen
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magicoctopus wrote:
I still haven't played it, but I don't regret buying it.


If you want to continue to not regret buying Android, don't play it.
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YourHighnessness wrote:
I don't think Civ/Adv Civ were very good games. They were a watershed moment in game design, introducing more than one significant game innovation that has affected computer and board gaming ever since, so I don't mean to run the games down. However, too much of the game centers around calamities, which are sort of distributed randomly and bring anti-fun, but can be mitigated by players who carefully perform a not-fun math-and-memory exercise. Also, some civilizations run into early choke points on the advancement track that make them either automatic or not fun to play. I always felt there were awesome things about Civ, but it was generally not worth the considerable effort.

That said, if you want to trap a dozen dudes in a room for a long day of ordering pizzas and getting your game on, [Adv] Civ does offer a meta-game experience that is tough to replicate (though tough to organize in the first place even if you live in an all-male college dorm). If you have ever wanted a game that is more of an experience than a game, this is one way to go.


For you, but thanks for the broad paint stroke!
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Lord Alatar
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Comparing clash of cltures with civ? They are not even playing in the same leauge. Civ is a game clash of cultures not.
 
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lordalatar wrote:
Comparing clash of cltures with civ? They are not even playing in the same leauge. Civ is a game clash of cultures not.

Clash of Cultures is not a game? What are you talking about? Clash of Cultures is the best game in my collection, it's King of Civs!
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Dale Withroder
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i've searched for a 'replacement' for advanced civ forever, and never found anything that worked for me. played many games, and enjoyed them, but they didn't scratch the itch.

go for it. we played the crap out of advanced civ in college, and it vanished with one of my roommates to Dallas...
 
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Steve G.
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Mabuchi wrote:
YourHighnessness wrote:
I don't think Civ/Adv Civ were very good games. They were a watershed moment in game design, introducing more than one significant game innovation that has affected computer and board gaming ever since, so I don't mean to run the games down. However, too much of the game centers around calamities, which are sort of distributed randomly and bring anti-fun, but can be mitigated by players who carefully perform a not-fun math-and-memory exercise. Also, some civilizations run into early choke points on the advancement track that make them either automatic or not fun to play. I always felt there were awesome things about Civ, but it was generally not worth the considerable effort.

That said, if you want to trap a dozen dudes in a room for a long day of ordering pizzas and getting your game on, [Adv] Civ does offer a meta-game experience that is tough to replicate (though tough to organize in the first place even if you live in an all-male college dorm). If you have ever wanted a game that is more of an experience than a game, this is one way to go.


For you, but thanks for the broad paint stroke!

The first words in that post were "I don't think". So, it is indeed relaying a personal opinion.
 
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Torbjörn Rander
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As others have pointed out, you should try it out at a convention before committing to buying. I just bought a copy at Essen, and will hopefully have some games in the next months, and be back with a review. I own and play Civ and ACiv a lot, and am not entirely sure that I like all of the rule changes in MCiv; I'd say that it's more forgiving than ACiv, which is quite a feat. In general, there seem to be many improvements in rule clarity and tweaks to make it more accessible to beginners.

Oh, and also, in my opinion, there is no other game that comes close to ACiv, even today. I played a lot of TTA, Nations, Clash of Cultures and what have you, and they are fundamentally different from AH Civ and its decsendants. The only challenge is to find other people that want to invest a day in one game in this day and age..
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Torbjörn Rander
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YourHighnessness wrote:
I don't think Civ/Adv Civ were very good games. They were a watershed moment in game design, introducing more than one significant game innovation that has affected computer and board gaming ever since, so I don't mean to run the games down. However, too much of the game centers around calamities, which are sort of distributed randomly and bring anti-fun, but can be mitigated by players who carefully perform a not-fun math-and-memory exercise. Also, some civilizations run into early choke points on the advancement track that make them either automatic or not fun to play. I always felt there were awesome things about Civ, but it was generally not worth the considerable effort.

That said, if you want to trap a dozen dudes in a room for a long day of ordering pizzas and getting your game on, [Adv] Civ does offer a meta-game experience that is tough to replicate (though tough to organize in the first place even if you live in an all-male college dorm). If you have ever wanted a game that is more of an experience than a game, this is one way to go.


To be honest, after playing a lot of ACiv, you realize that the calamities very rarely drastically affect the outcome of a game among skilled players. For you, the math-and-memory excersises may not be fun, for me and many other players, it's just one of many elements that raises the skill ceiling for the game, I can see nothing wrong with that. Regarding AST track, it's an assymetrically designed game, and you have to play each civilization differently, and if you know what you're doing, there will be a similar amount of not advancing on the AST for all players.

In this context, it's worth to note that there are many rule changes that mitigate the perceived problems you bring up; for example, the early choke point on the AST is the same for everyone except Crete now, who get one extra turn; the calamities seem more diluted, there are way more trade cards, way more technologies, and many of the math based moments have been toned down a lot by including tracking sheets etc.
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Eric Clark
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Recommendations for Clash of Cultures and Through the Ages really don't belong in this thread, if you ask me. Civ/AdCiv/MegaCiv is meant to provide a drastically different and far more social experience...and to be played with more than four people!
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Michael Berg
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I definitely was not recommending a particular game as a replacement for mega civilization, just trying to point out the opportunity cost of spending so much on a game that the OP may not play much (and may not even enjoy).
 
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