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A Song of Ice and Fief (fan expansion for Fief 1429)» Forums » Play By Forum

Subject: PBF#4 - A Song of Ice and Fief (Test play) rss

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Ivan Alaiz
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This post is to start preparing the PBF test 4, more details on rule changes to come shortly afterwards.

GENERAL RULES


We will play a Fourth Test game of A Song of Ice and Fief
It is a retheme of Fief in Westeros.

Game rules v3.1 available: NOT YET

It is not yet a nice rulebook. Please forgive us on that this is still a work in progress.
A table of content with Link is available at the end of the document.
All the change of rules compared to Fief rules are colored.

The list of new available Noble per House is on page 26 of the rules.

VARIANT USED

- All expansions are included except the Wall
- No Disaster will strike in the first turn.
- PBF Diplomacy: Specific variant for PBF: Private discussions only when Raven is spent with the following exceptions
- All houses that have nobles on the same village may conduct private discussions, all houses present in that village must be included in the whatsapp group
- Any house that has a maester may send whatsapps to any player, this discussions are one way only and as per gentlement agreement cannot be answered in the general chat, not even in code.


Summary of the new rules.


The retheme are based on the french rules (Assassination/Diplomacy). It includes tactical (except Mercenary), political, Templar and crusade expansion.
Some terms has been rename :
Lord Deck -> Court Event Deck
Bishop -> Warden
Cardinal -> Master of the ship/law/whisperer/coin
Pope -> Hand of the King
Templar -> Brother of the Night's Watch
Templar Knight -> Night's Watch Recruit
Grand Master of the Templar -> Lord Commander of the Night's Watch
Commandery -> Sept
The Royal Edict -> Destroying the False Idols
d'Arc -> Mother of the Dragon
Excommunication -> Banishment
Crusade -> Battle on the Wall
Denier -> Gold Dragons
Royal Guard -> The White Cloaks
Bombards -> Champion
Cavalcade -> Raid

An exhaustive summary of the rules that have changed:

Setup and General Mechanics:

French rules are used as a foundation (french diplomacy and assassination rules)
The court event deck no longer contains nobles but “play a male” or “play a female” cards, nobles are part of each house character deck (3 females and 5 males per deck) and players will draw a male or a female as needed, if a house runs out of females, males are played instead, if a house runs out of males “hedge knights” are played instead.
Each house has 2 defined starting noble(s), the first two drawn nobles will be these 2
Each noble has an assigned “attribute” and each house has an assigned “advisor” (now house power) as per the Political Expansion
Church equivalent Titles (Wardens, hand and council) no longer have marriage restrictions nor restrictions to be nominated for king (the new king would drop these titles though)
Heir to the throne is no longer a Title but an special character not on the house character deck, as the hedge knights

Hear Ye:
(NWE) King can declare for R'hllor, pillage all septs and get cursed, hand may join in to share benefit and burn any untitled noble
King has extra powers
Breaks any tie other than ties in battle and decides the winner
Wardens can marry and be King Candidates (although royalty cannot become Hand or Small Council member)
The Hand does not have break marriage ability nor does lift outlaw status
The hand can force a noble to take the black instead of banishment (or make him an outlaw)
Council Titles (cardinals in vanilla) now have a power attached to each of them, also purchasable Title is now a bid not a direct purchase
(NWE) When banished, an unmarried Lord can take the black for free (if there is no other NW in the house).
(NWE) A noble may leave the watch and become a renegade during hear ye phase.

Discard, Draw and Play cards
Justice can target Outlaws (you become renegade by leaving the watch, or refusing to pay a tax with a warden)
(WiC) in Autumn and Winter, disasters will strike extra regions
Unlucky attribute: Impedes mill boosts to be played but allows to cancel disasters in the region (so late seasons dont hit as hard)
Tax refusal: A warden may cancel a tax (not tallage) played in his region at the expense of becoming renegade

Purchase Phase
(NWE) Septs: 5 GD same rules as templar commanderies except for plague inmunity
(NWE) Maesters: 5GD, similar to TK fortification upgrade (no secret passage, inmune to plague, send cards to other player without spending diplomacy)
Champions: Knights with Bombardier reroll effect, 5 GD
Archers: Cannot attack fortifications (not even when SP is used)
(NWE):a recruit may be purchased for 0GD if the player has none.
(TE)White cloacks (Royal Guard) are now are now purchasable troops added to the reserve pool of king and queen

During play card, disaster and income phases no opportunity cards or effects may be played

Battle & movement Phases
All nobles (lords and ladies) add an SP to army strength
Nobles cannot move alone, they need to have troops with them
NWB: House nobles and troops present in the village where he is cannot initiate any offensive action (Attack, siegue pillage)

Wall Phase
Entire new mechanics:
No nobles on the wall, no battles on the wall
Players bid SP and troops to help reinforce the wall
On phase 7 a roll happens and the wall may be under attack (a check happens)
If the wall check is lost 3 times all players lose the game

Variants and Expansions:
Winter is Coming Variant (WiC): A tracker on the side ot the board indicates the game season: Summer, Autumn, Winter. After the first time the fortune deck is replenished, the marker will be moved from Summer to Autumn, and to Winter the second time. If playing with this variant remove 1 plague card from the game, in Autumn and winter 1 and 2 extra dice are rolled for wall attack and disaster locations
Wall Expansion (To be completed): Features an extra board and exhaustive wall and beyond the wall mechanics
Night Watch Expansion (NWE): Much like the templars but with some special rules
no treasure mechanics
no reserved buildings for them
immune to justice
There is a simple fight on the wall mechanic that forces cooperation between players for the greater good


Updated Board:




GENTLEMEN’S AGREEMENT


In order to improve the flow of the game, feel free to write basic orders in advance inside spoiler, so we can reveal them when your turn comes up (for example: purchases, bids, discards, card draws, ...). You can always formulate them conditionally. As gentlemen, no one will read your message if you play after.

Let’s try to keep the game running smoothly, so try to check in at least once a day. If you expect you won’t be able to log in or participate for more than two days, notify sdric and the other players. Sdric will play instead of you (in your best interest) if I do not have any news for 24h, orders can be given by whatsapp in the general game group any other player will post on behalf of the player that requests it, the action will not be considered declared until the post in the forum is done.

If you are absent without notification for more than 4 days, we will start looking out for a replacement.

Be aware that the game has the possibility to play instant Opportunity cards (e.g. assassination, justice, uprising, ambush). At critical moments like battles etc., a player wanting to play a card may not be able to log in immediately. Some reasonable return in time could happen. It will be sdrics call to accept it.

Use normal text for regular discussions.
Use italics for politics and rolelaying (highly encouraged!).
Use bold text for in-game moves and actions.

Always start your game-related posts with stating your House and colour in the background. Also always refer to other players by their House and colour in the background.

If possible, do not edit game-related text (actions, politics). If you must, highlight the text that you edited by leaving the old text striked through (use [ - ] [ / - ] without spaces) to clear up confusion. Otherwise, someone may have read your original post without noticing what has been changed later on.

We try to remove most of the rule ambiguities in the rulebook. Should you have any doubts about the rules or notice an oversight, please say so, even if this would not be entirely in your own benefit. Make sure your victory is the result of brilliant strategy and cunning, not of some stupid technicality nobody noticed.

Remember that is a Test play, we try to stay close to vanilla game, so hopefully everything is balanced, but some imbalance can be still here. Please keep your feeling about imbalance for the after game debriefing.

Minor spoiler are in the rules, but will probably be unnoticed by someone not knowing the fact. Please try to avoid any spoiler during the game.

This is a game, and games are meant to be fun. Please remember this as there may be circumstances in which you become frustrated, tense, and even angry. But, this is all part of the charm and appeal of this game. Having said that, make threats and blast your opponents with insults (within reason) while roleplaying. Just try to keep out of character communication as civil as possible. And remember: Have fun!

Game start target date Monday October the 5th

House Banners:

Tyrell: 2524968
ARRYN: 2524969
BARATHEON: 2524970
TULLY: 2524972
GREYJOY: 2524962
TARGARYEN: 2616274
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Baratheon for me
 
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Targaryen: MordredPendragon
Tully: Moebius D5 = (1) = 1
Arryn: Gunzilla 1d4 = (2) = 2
Greyjoy: Chernanx D3 = (3) = 3
Baratheon: Darknico D2 = (1) = 1
Tyrell : Sdric

Turn order
Tully 1-12 Lord : D18 = (15) = 15 Lady
Baratheon 1-12 Lord : D17 = (1) = 1 Lord
Arryn 1-11 Lord : D16 = (11) = 11 Lord
Tyrell 1-10 Lord : D15 = (6) = 6 Lord
Greyjoy 1-9 Lord : D14 = (6) = 6 Lord
Targaryen Lady
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  • 791734. sdric
  • D5 =
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  • Sat Oct 3, 2015 3:34 am
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  • 791755. sdric
  • D14 =
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  • Sat Oct 3, 2015 4:26 am
Sebastien Castano
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Targaryen is last to place but first in turn order, we changed this at the beginning of PBF 3
 
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Ivan Alaiz
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Even though the game starts on monday when all the rules are set, we can start placing to gain time,

I will place in Riverrun for theme, I will draw 1 ce and 1 fortune :-)



Next is Baratheon (Nico)
 
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I start in Storm's end
 
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Ivan Alaiz
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Arryn home will be The Eyrie

Sdric you are next!
 
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Tyrell home will be Highgarden

IMHO, even if we have done 2 small adjustment I am quite happy with the NWE and I would like to test the wall expansion. One PBF is 3 month so if you think we need to take one week to discuss the wall expansion let's do it.


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Quote:
All houses that have nobles on the same village may conduct private discussions, all houses present in that village must be included in the whatsapp group
cool! a new rule?

Quote:
Wall Phase
Entire new mechanics:
No nobles on the wall, no battles on the wall
Players bid SP and troops to help reinforce the wall
On phase 7 a roll happens and the wall may be under attack (a check happens)
If the wall check is lost 3 times all players lose the game
This one is Gunz ou Sdric's WE rule?
 
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darknico wrote:
Quote:
All houses that have nobles on the same village may conduct private discussions, all houses present in that village must be included in the whatsapp group
cool! a new rule?

Quote:
Wall Phase
Entire new mechanics:
No nobles on the wall, no battles on the wall
Players bid SP and troops to help reinforce the wall
On phase 7 a roll happens and the wall may be under attack (a check happens)
If the wall check is lost 3 times all players lose the game
This one is Gunz ou Sdric's WE rule?

That is the rules we test in the previous PBF. The only change is now a 6= move 6 step. Attack occurs if you reach the virtual case -16. The wall ladder is now -14 up to +14.

I send an email with Gunz and Sdric wall expansion proposal.
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Ivan Alaiz
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Sdric

I would love to test the wall but the rules are not ready yet and we did not do any progress in the month that we did this PBF, id rather be playing again and test it afterwards than test it now. It also gives us time to create a map for the wall.

I think we should go for Gunz's option, as it fully based on yours and expanded with the map.

Sdric option is the one I meant, the one with the map!
 
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Carlos Hernández
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GreyJoy starts at Deepwood Mote

I only took a fast view of the wall proposals. I like Sdric's option. But tomorrow morning will vote after a deep reading
 
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Sebastian Samberg
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Going east to go west, Daenerys sails around the world to fall upon the unsuspecting Lannisters at Lannisport.

The Dragon now resides in the Lions' den.

I draw 1 CE and 1 Fortune.
 
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MordredPendragon wrote:


Going east to go west, Daenerys sails around the world to fall upon the unsuspecting Lannisters at Lannisport.

The Dragon now resides in the Lions' den.

I draw 1 CE and 1 Fortune.

Woo 2 strongholds side by side ^^
old alliances are tenacious... whistle
 
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Sebastien Castano
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Differences between the 2 wall expansions:

New boards:

Gunzilla: the NW board is separate from westeros. It has 3 castles on the wall that the Nw lords and visiting lords from westeros jave to defend against wildlings and white walkers spawns, sieges, and assaults.

Sdric: the wall is a 6th region and works more or less like any other region (moves, disasters etc). There is the same widlings spawns system.

Lords taking the black:

Gunzilla: they go directly to the wall, and cannot stay on westeros map. They will participate to the wall storyline and will take less part in the affairs of the realm

Sdric: they stay on the westeros map

Lord commander election:

Gunzilla: can happen starting in autumn, which leaves time for the players to prepare the election.

Sdric: can happen in turn 2


Family slots:

Gunzilla: nw lords cards are sent on the nw board and dont take a slot in your family board

Sdric: they stay on your family slot.

Combat:

Gunzilla: same as westeros combat, but nw brothers can die in battle (4+roll) when they lose their last troop.

Sdric: same as vanilla

Victory points:

Gunzilla: 1 for lord commander, 1 for the leader that will defeat mance, 1 for the leader that will defeat the night's king

Sdric: 1 for lord commander, and 1 for each time a leader wins a battle on the wall.


Dont have time to finish, sdric please correct/add differences and create the poll if u can, ill be out most of the day today.

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Highlighting difference with a pool on each option
New boards:
Gunzilla: the NW board is separate from westeros. It has 3 castles on the wall that the Nw lords and visiting lords from westeros jave to defend against wildlings and white walkers spawns, sieges, and assaults.
Sdric: the wall is a 6th region and works more or less like any other region (moves, disasters etc). There is the same widlings spawns system.
Poll
My prefered option ?
3 castles
a 6th region
      6 answers
Poll created by sdric


Lords taking the black:
Gunzilla: they go directly to the wall, and cannot stay on westeros map. They will participate to the wall storyline and will take less part in the affairs of the realm
Sdric: they stay on the westeros map but NW brother has a strong incentive to go to the wall (6th region) to take control of a fortification and have a chance to win a VP in addition to have a non taxable income.
Poll
My prefered option
NW brother always on the wall
NW brother could be on the wall or in westeros
      6 answers
Poll created by sdric


Lord commander election:
Gunzilla: can happen starting in autumn, which leaves time for the players to prepare the election.
Sdric: can happen in turn 2 (like the Hand)
Poll
My prefered option
wait for autumn to have an LC election
no restriction
      6 answers
Poll created by sdric


Family slots:
Gunzilla: nw lords cards are sent on the nw board and dont take a slot in your family board
Sdric: they stay on your family slot. Easier if they leave the watch, Their avatar could be on the wall.
Poll
My prefered option ?
NW brother do not take a slot in the family board
NW brother take a slot in the family board
      6 answers
Poll created by sdric


Combat:
Gunzilla: same as westeros combat, but nw brothers can die in battle (4+roll) when they lose their last troop.
Sdric: same as vanilla but Wildings and WW are cruel so no wildling prisoners.
Poll
My prefered option
Special battle rule for NW brother (can die if no more troops)
Regular rules
      6 answers
Poll created by sdric



Victory points:
Gunzilla: 1 for lord commander, 1 for the leader that will defeat mance, 1 for the leader that will defeat the night's king
Sdric: 1 for lord commander, and 1 for the last leader wins a battle on a specific wall fortification (3 VP available).
Poll
My prefered option
1 VP for defeating mance, 1 VP for defeating the night's king
1 VP for the last battle on a specific wall fortification (3 VP available).
      6 answers
Poll created by sdric



Who can take the VP
Gunzilla: The leader is the biggest army (A westeros army is block for 2 turn if she goes on the wall). The attacked Castle is pure random. The leader chooses which Noble gets the vp.
Sdric: the NW brother controlling the attacked castle is the leader. Player can have some idea where the attack will occur due to the spawning mechanism + the largest NW army can reroll one dice to influence the spawning mechanism. You need to prepare yourself before the attack to take control of the right castle and forge alliance to win you battle.
Poll
Your prefer option ?
Random castle, biggest army has a chance to win the VP
Random castle but some way to predict it, the NW controlling has a chance to win the VP
      6 answers
Poll created by sdric

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My vote
- a 6th region
Moving from on castle to another and declare a great ranging and cavalcading Wildling are fun. That allow a Stannis move : try to take Westeros castle from the wall. Take control of a wall fortification is strongly related to how you can win a VP. Allow uprising on NWbrother and Wildling if famine. Plague clan affect the wall...

Lords taking the black:
- stay on the westeros map but NW brother has a strong incentive to go to the wall (6th region) to take control of a fortification and have a chance to win a VP in addition to have a non taxable income.

I want the wall add possibility from the NWE not remove it. Will be open to add a rule that say that an army with NW brother and only NW troops cannot deny passage.

Lord commander election:
- no restriction
a) Easier rules
b) a LC turn 2 is also 2 early Lord that cannot candidate to wardenship and the LC is block on the wall. He will probably defend the wall alone as other player will probably not make NW brother and minimally contribute to the wall.
c) a Hand can also be elected turn 2
d) a King election occurs frequently turn 3, in a 4 player game autumn can be late.


Family slots:
-stay on your family slot.
Easier if they leave the watch, Their avatar could be on the wall.


Combat:
-same as vanilla
Easier rule, the roll dice make you super vulnerable to the leader that is a bit a double sentence, loose your army+loose your Noble


How many VP available:
Do not vote as I do not have a strong preference.


Who can take the VP
Some control to predict which castle will be under attack and move to take control of it with a NW brother need more planning that having the available army at a random time. Their is a stop or more mechanism go early but do not take control of the good castle or wait to have more certitude but be stolen by another player. This point is the one of the main point that make me create my version.
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Sebastien Castano
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My votes

The Wall board
- 3 Castles only + the haunted forest

The spawn of wildings and White walkers armies need to be tested before adding some more villages north of the wall. When we will be sure about the spawn's strenght, I might add those 3 more villages, make it a region, and allow 2 steps moves, cavalcading etc. But i think the whole combat and bidding contribution system must be solid before we add all that.


Lords taking the black:
- stay always on the wall
The main reason is to fit the theme, as lords are not part of their family anmore when they join the NW. Instead, they will participate to the parralel storyline of the Wall, like in the books and the tv show. The players still have an influence on them, through assigning the troop bids to the lords of their choice, through combat when the leader choses which NW bro takes casualties at each round, and through the votes of Lord commander election obviously. All these make part of a wall storyline, where players are involved, and can use diplomacy to scheme the unfortunate death of another brother in combat devil (the 4+roll combat rule).


Lord commander election:
- only in autumn
a) fits the theme, as the NW election of Jon Snows happens later during the story
b) I prefer to let players have time to prepare themselves for this election, and not give another quick early VP to a player (we already give King and Hand titles quite early in our PBFs)
c) It is tue that in a 4 players game autumn can be late, but this is due to seasons rules, not to the Wall expansion. The election of LC can be unlocked after a specific number of turns, it is the same for me, just as long as you cant elect him in the early game (turn 2-3)


Family slots:
- Your NW lords dont take a slot on your family board anymore.
As they are not part of your family anymore, it fits the theme that they dont block a space in your family board. They might come back on it if they break their vows and there is a slot for them on your family board.
By sending a lord to the NW you put back the Court event card in the discard pile, allowing some strategies on the Court event discard pile (prevent a 100% MOD draw for the first player to draw would be an example).


Combat:
- Same as vanilla, but with the 4+ wound rule for brothers of the NW when they lose their last troop.
Rolling a dice is not much a complicated rule to add.
The point of this rule is:
- Theme: the life in the NW is deadly, and NW lords better get some troops loyal to them if they wanna build influence there
- To give some strategic possibilities during the NW bid (sending troops) and during combat.
- To reward players that contribute to the wall, even if the are not highest bidder (and didnt get the free card!)
- But most of all: it is made so players cannot just send 1 or 2 lords on the wall to provide them with votes for the LC election, never send troops, and rely on other players to defend the wall. If you want to have your NW brother survive untill the LC election u need to give him some troopsto protect him. This system favorises the players who send more contribution during the bids, and is also balanced because this wall advantage they have is compnsated by the disadvantage they might have on the westeros map because of their too high bids.
Anyway with some diplomacy you can always "convince" the leader to preserve ur NW lord.


How many VP available:
- 3: LC, Mance Rayder, Night's King

I prefer to limit the VP to a number of 3, and tie them to spcial storyline events: the Lord commander election, The battle against mance rayder's army, the battle against the Night's king army.


Who can take the VP
- The leader of the battle won against Mance or the Night King (what is written in the description and the Poll is wrong)

This rule still allows you to have control on who will get the VP, through bidding more troops to get the leadership, or send a big westeros army stronger than the whole NW forces.
What i dont like in the "owner of the castle gets the Vp" rule is that you can just send 1 lord there early, and wait and never provide him with troops. It is too much of a "first ne there gets all" rule for me. to earn the VP you'll need to take command of the battle by binging the biggest forces.
You can also prepare for taking this VP, it is not "random" as Sdric explained. The NW lords and westeros visiting armies assign each turn in the wall battle phase to 1 of the attacked castles. Since the Mance Rayder army will spawn in hear ye phase, you can prepare to get the leadership through the NW bid in purchase phase, or through the move phase by sending a strong westeros army (NW will have to fight on their side to defend the wall anyway)
 
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Ivan Alaiz
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I explain my vote as well.

I like the map thinguie, I don't like losing my character, and I would like to start the game as soon as possible... Sdric can you send the cards? Everybody draws 1 and 1...
 
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Sebastien Castano
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M0ebius wrote:
I don't like losing my character

You dont lose it, it is not on your family board, that is just it. You control him for votes, combats, assigning bid troops, and he can provide VPs to your house.
 
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Gunzilla wrote:
M0ebius wrote:
I don't like losing my character

You dont lose it, it is not on your family board, that is just it. You control him for votes, combats, assigning bid troops, and he can provide VPs to your house.

That is rhetorical, you still spend a "new lord" card to have your NW brother.
 
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Sebastien Castano
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sdric wrote:
Gunzilla wrote:
M0ebius wrote:
I don't like losing my character

You dont lose it, it is not on your family board, that is just it. You control him for votes, combats, assigning bid troops, and he can provide VPs to your house.

That is rhetorical, you still spend a "new lord" card to have your NW brother.

Ha ok i didnt understand it like that.

So i'll put that question

What is the point of wanting to keep on your family board a lord that:
- cannot candidate in westeros elections
- cannot hold fief titles
- cannot attack other houses and prevents all your house lords on the same village to attack as well
- cannot kidnapp
- cannot sponsor an assassination
?

Besides from those 3 very unthematic reasons...
- moving westeros troops from your house
- controlling villages and so providing income for your house
- block passage to another westeros army

...I dont see why you would want to keep ur NW lord on your family board and in westeros at all.
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Sdric
Canada
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Quebec
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About keeping on your family board a NW Noble
Keep on Westeros and Keep on your familly board is 2 differents things. We can choose to keep the Noble card on your Family board and the Avatar on the wall.
The main reasons to keep it on your family board make
- it easier rule of renonce his vows.
- It easier to Keep track on each familly VP.
- avoid a player to block 5 lord/lady card (even more of you allow several NW brother per familly).

Imagine in the last PBF if Stark and Tyrell continue to draw Lord and Lady and finish both with 5 Nobles in their house. Targaryen will never be able to get back on foot because not more noble will be available.

About the 3 very unthematic reasons to keep NW brother on Westeros
I really prefer that wall expansion extends NWE and not contradict it.
If NW brother can stay in Westeros in NWE, I prefer it is the same in Wall expension.
IMHO, any change on this part, should be the same in NWE and the Wall expansion.
NW brother should stay a viable as an early strategic choice. IMHO minimally, we need to keep the free 2SP bonus to boost your defense and do not hinder to much your early extension (take controle of empty village).
My proposal to be more thematic AND keeping the playability of NWbrother.
- can move in westeros only with his NW recruit.
- an army composed only of NW troops can not deny passage.
- a NW brother and NW troops can participate in battle only if his family control the village he occupies (defense or attack)
- if present with another Noble do not prevent regular army to attack.
- you clan still recruit regular troop in a village where only a NW brother is present.

about the VP assignment in Gunz's version
It is a majority race (biggest army) and that is OK.
But some battles occurs without assign VP, and the one leading the majority race will always use this battle to confirm his leadership (Richer get Richer). The 4+ rule reinforce this effect.
Attack trigger completly randomly no building pressure on the wall that can help the planning. You have only one turn to react.
The last in turn seems to have a indue advantage and the attack trigger is pure random.
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Ivan Alaiz
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I will be off till tomorrow... After Mordred plays cards I will play a lord card, please Sdric roll the noble for me
 
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Sebastian Samberg
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One new Lord

(based on gdoc)

1 = Grey Worm (cannot marry)
2 = Ser Jorah (loyal)
3 = Jon Connington (storm)
4 = Barristan Selmy (cunning)
5 = Young Griff (shadow)

1d5 = (2) = 2

Ser Jorah Mormont joins Daenerys at Lannisport
 
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