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Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Rules

Subject: Grapple versus Flying rss

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Ian Walker
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We recently completed Quest 2 (Brothers Durnog, which incidentally was a long but enjoyable game narrowly won by the 3 heroes).

During this game there was a situation whereby a hero with the grapple ability was in a corridor and the OL wanted to move some razorwings over the character into the spaces behind.

The question is; does the grapple ability affect flying creatures ?
We ruled that it did not as (para-phrasing from memory here) flying ability cannot enter physically blocked spaces but ignores/'does not interact with' the contents of traversed spaces.

Is there an official/unofficial answer for the grapple/flying situation ?
I can't find anything on the official FAQ covering this.
 
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Rich Chamberlain
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The rules say:

Fly
Figures with the Fly ability may move through enemy figures and obstacles as if they weren’t there. However, flying figures cannot end their movement in a space containing another figure or an obstacle that blocks movement. A flying figure may end its turn in a space containing an obstacle that inflicts damage without effect.

Grapple
Enemies adjacent to a figure with the Grapple ability cannot spend any movement points until the figure is dead. They may still attack as normal.

The difference is that a monstrer with Fly ignores anything about the square it is in, but Grapple affects the adjacent square.

So a Razorwing moves adjacent to a hero with Grapple.
The Grapple affect kicks in stopping movement.
If the Razorwing had managed to move on to the same square as the hero then the hero is both: A - Ignored by the Fly ability, and B - Grapple only affects Adjancent squares so has no effect on the same square.

HTH!
 
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Dave Barfield
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Is that really right ?

"Fly
Figures with the Fly ability may move through enemy figures and obstacles as if they weren’t there.[snip]

The Grapple affect kicks in stopping movement."


How can something that is not there grapple ? Seems like a grey area. If you look at it from the other way the flier can over obstacles so why not over the grappler ?


 
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Ian Walker
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Intuitively I agree with Spudgaming, it doesn't seem right that flyers can be grappled, after all they can fly over obstacles, how would a grappler grab them ?

As a further point, mass grappling of adjacent enemies also seems to be counter-intuitive although I'm sure it's only an abstract game mechanic. After all, exactly how many enemies can one hero expect to grapple (one with each hand, maybe a combined leg hold on another and a final bite-lock for another one) and still be able to attack ?
 
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John Barfield
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Don't listen to him Itchy,

He's just annoyed I grappled his giants
 
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Rich Chamberlain
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Unless FFG can confirm...?

Grapple is an "Area of Effect" effect. Fly only affects the single square the Razorwing is on.

If you have a Hero and a Razorwing (RW) adjacent to each other then Grapple forces his ability on the RW since Grapple works on adjacent squares. Fly doesn't affect the Hero since its ability only applies to the single square and not adjacent squares.

But yes - it doesn't make sense in a real world view, especially multiple grapples!
Our only comfort is that Descent is not an RPG. In RPGs, points of argument can be contested using Physics, Natural Laws and Common Sense. Descent is just a board game with a series of rules and mechanics which apply regardless of the lack of sense they bring.

Anyone got any other "Odd world" scenarios for Descent?

I have one: Archers missing when firing at the square directly in front of him. Just how bad a shot are they??
 
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Matthew M
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By the strict reading of the abilities Richard's interpretation appears to be correct. You can move through a space as if the creature isn't there. It does NOT say the creature isn't there, and it does not say anything about spaces adjacent to the creature.

These dungeons clearly don't have terribly high ceilings, and thost Naga have very long prehensile tiles.

-MMM
 
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Christine Biancheria
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I think if a flying monster can avoid aura, it can avoid grapple.

Another question about Grapple:

When something is grappled, and the grappler moves, does the grappled thing go with it?
 
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Gilles Duchesne
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Christine Biancheria wrote:
Another question about Grapple:

When something is grappled, and the grappler moves, does the grappled thing go with it?


Definitely not. Something that significant would have been explicitly covered by the rules. And the rules only state that adjacent enemy figures aren't allowed to spent movement points anymore.
 
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Gilles Duchesne
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Reedo wrote:
Well, let's see, which has a broader and/or longer range...

a hero's arm or a holy aura?

I'd say the aura without any doubt.

Therefore, if a flyer can avoid aura then it can avoid grapple.

It doesn't make any sense that a hero could grapple a bat that is flying over his head and out of reach. If a flyer can move through any other hero or obstacle then I'm guessing a pair of grappling arms are likewise no challenge for the flyer.


But then you might as well say that monsters with flying are immune to melee attacks, because how could the heroes reach them?

I know that, personally, I don't want to "make sense" of the rules as I would in an RPG. I'm just trying to applies the rules in place and figure out how they overlap each other.

By the way, I still don't get why people say that flying creatures aren't affected by the Holy Aura. The FAQ only says:

Descent FAQ wrote:
Q: If a flying monster passes through a hero that has Holy Aura, does the monster suffer a wound for the space it “shares” with the hero?
A: No.


It doesn't say anything about all the other adjacent squares...

Or am I not following the thread correctly?
 
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Collin
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LoneCleric wrote:
By the way, I still don't get why people say that flying creatures aren't affected by the Holy Aura. The FAQ only says:

Descent FAQ wrote:
Q: If a flying monster passes through a hero that has Holy Aura, does the monster suffer a wound for the space it “shares” with the hero?
A: No.


It doesn't say anything about all the other adjacent squares...

I agree with you here. I am pretty sure that flying creatures are indeed affected by Aura. The FAQ does not mention adjacent squares because it is clear enough in the rules that this is the case. The statement in the FAQ is only referring to the moment when a flying creature might actually share a square with a hero with aura, because that is where the grey area lies. It is not a blanket statement saying that flying creatures are immune to aura.
 
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Barry Figgins
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Just read the ability.

"Figures with the Fly ability may move through enemy figures and obstacles as if they weren’t there. However, flying figures cannot end their movement in a space containing another figure or an obstacle that blocks movement. A flying figure may end its turn in a space containing an obstacle that inflicts damage without effect."

It says, clearly, 'move through enemy figures as if they weren't there'.

Does it say 'figures with the Fly ability may ignore the abilities of other figures'?

Does it indicate that fly applies to other figures at any time other than when moving through them?

It doesn't. Just read the ability, follow the instructions, and don't worry too much about bringing 'theme' or 'realism' into it.
 
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