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Subject: Stats for the upcoming Romulan D7 rss

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Larry DeStefano
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I'll go with the following:

4
2
4
3

Total SP = 26

Just my 2 cents. At this point really cant say what wizkids will do, or what cards may come with it.
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Leo Zappa
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Wait, what?! They are actually going to do a Romulan D7?! What is its name and when will it be available??? That's an auto buy for me for sure!
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David Montgomery
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No way they give it 4 Attack and outclass the D'Deridex.

3
2
3
2
for 20 SP, TWWC just to be funny, and a 90/90 also for kicks.
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David Montgomery
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desertfox2004 wrote:
Wait, what?! They are actually going to do a Romulan D7?! What is its name and when will it be available??? That's an auto buy for me for sure!


Wave 25 in April 2016. IRW Algeron, a ship that was never named, but presumably named after the Treaty of Algeron.
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Typheron Joyzxqk
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http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/32701/star-trek-attack-wi...

I.R.W. Algeron is its name, the pics have it the wrong way round in that link, April next year is the release date.

I expect it will be a standard D7 with cloak in some form.
 
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Andrew Gallagher
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2
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2

Still bigger than a bird-of-prey, but not as powerful as the warbirds of 100 years later. Evade, Cloak, Sensor Echo, Target Lock, 2 crew, 2 weapons.
 
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Moppi Wurm
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Based on the Groth. Romulans usually have 2 evade and I dont see why it would be that different from the Klingon D7.
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Justin Hare
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It was a romulan owned D7. I see no reason why weapons or hull would be significantly better. The D7 was still an advanced warship in TOS (if memory serves). These stats make it a comparible but different ship to the Gal'Gathong without just straight out making it obsolete.
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Jon Ginever
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hadrian132 wrote:
I'll go with the following:

4
2
4
3

Total SP = 26

Just my 2 cents. At this point really cant say what wizkids will do, or what cards may come with it.


I've got to say it would be hilarious if it had a higher PAV than a D'deridex class warbird, a hundred years of technical innovation and the ships have actually gone backwards. There's also no good reason for the ship to be physically larger than the Klingon D7, so hull 3 would be more appropriate.

I assume it will either be identical to the Klingon D7 stat-wise or it will have an extra pip of evade because that seems to be a Romulan thing.

So either 3/1/3/2 or 3/2/3/2, it would be harsh if they smacked it with a PAV of 2, in canon the romulans traded the cloaking technology for Klingon ships so there's no real good reason why the PAV would be lower than Klingon D7s

The question for me is whether it has a cloaking device on its action bar or has it in the pack as a tech. I would personally favour it as a tech since that would allow it to be stolen just like what happened in the show.
 
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Sodoff Baldrick
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mathguy6189 wrote:
No way they give it 4 Attack and outclass the D'Deridex.

3
2
3
2
for 20 SP, TWWC just to be funny, and a 90/90 also for kicks.



This is what I would like to see, but I suspect it will be the same as the G'Roth.
 
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Jesse Catron
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It should be very similar to the Klingon D7, so I think the generic will be:

3
1
3
1

The named Algeron should add an agility to make it more Romulan:
3
2
3
1

 
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Larry DeStefano
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Really worried about timeline here.....LOL the big Vulcan ships and the enterprise TOS have the SAME firepower as a D'D and there just as old /older then the D7 model. So really by now I just learned to Toss all that BS out the window when it comes to Wizkids way of doing things. Not how I would have done things. I would prefer my ships/fleets to be used era specific. No TOS vs TNG battles. But it is what it is and I have learned to live with Wizkids has done. They may very well go with a 3/1/3/2 ship or something similar, very possible. I'm hoping they go with 4/2/4/3 named version to give the Romulans something they really need as far as I can see. A solid mid range crusier to support a Reman or form a decent squadron in itself.
 
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Evan
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hadrian132 wrote:
Really worried about timeline here.....LOL the big Vulcan ships and the enterprise TOS have the SAME firepower as a D'D and there just as old /older then the D7 model.


I have two ways of dealing with this.

The first is to keep in mind that attack value is not just a measure of firepower. The D'Deridex had a lot of disruptors on it, but how often did they actually use them in an all-out brawl? Heck, apparently it takes an Elite Talent just to fire all of them at once, and only Taris has figured out how to work the ones in back.

The second is to assume that the fights aren't necessarily as anachronistic as they seem. If the Khazara is attacking a fleet of old-timey Vulcan ships, we can treat those ships as though they were plucked straight from the 22nd century, or we can figure that they're what ships of that class would be like if they were in service in the 24th century, with whatever upgrades and refits that this implies.
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David Griffin
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Mine was 3-2-3-3 (22)
If this ship is attacked by 5 or more attack dice, roll +1 evade dice +1 plus one for every 2 above 5 (5=+1, 7=+2, 9=+3, 11=+4) to a maximum of +5.

Kind of wordy and I haven't played it on the board.

Let's go back to basics. FASA's explanation was that the Klingons stripped D7s (Not K'Tingas) to the spaceframe, leaving the warp engines in place giving the Romulans something with modern warp engines (in exchange for cloaking devices and the original K-22 Warbird which became the B'Rel).

If that were true (I know this isn't canon), then the Romulans fill up the spaceframe with their own weapons. FASA (I think, hard to remember) used disruptors for the primary weapons and plasma torps for the secondary. So the 3 attack strength makes sense to me. The Roms love a maneuverable ship hence the 2 evade. Standard cloaking device. Evade-TL-Cloak-SE action bar, with upgrade bar of Tech/Weapon/Crew. Maneuver wheel similar to the D7.

Just my opinion but it should come with an equivalent to type 8 phasers that works on all 3 weapon ships for Next Generation upgrading to play with the big boys. Just my opinion on what SHOULD happen, not what will.
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Larry DeStefano
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kobold47 wrote:
hadrian132 wrote:
Really worried about timeline here.....LOL the big Vulcan ships and the enterprise TOS have the SAME firepower as a D'D and there just as old /older then the D7 model.


I have two ways of dealing with this.

The first is to keep in mind that attack value is not just a measure of firepower. The D'Deridex had a lot of disruptors on it, but how often did they actually use them in an all-out brawl? Heck, apparently it takes an Elite Talent just to fire all of them at once, and only Taris has figured out how to work the ones in back.

The second is to assume that the fights aren't necessarily as anachronistic as they seem. If the Khazara is attacking a fleet of old-timey Vulcan ships, we can treat those ships as though they were plucked straight from the 22nd century, or we can figure that they're what ships of that class would be like if they were in service in the 24th century, with whatever upgrades and refits that this implies.


Cant tell is that a agree with / disagree with what I wrote????? goo
 
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Jesse Catron
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hadrian132 wrote:
Really worried about timeline here.....LOL the big Vulcan ships and the enterprise TOS have the SAME firepower as a D'D and there just as old /older then the D7 model. So really by now I just learned to Toss all that BS out the window when it comes to Wizkids way of doing things. Not how I would have done things. I would prefer my ships/fleets to be used era specific. No TOS vs TNG battles. But it is what it is and I have learned to live with Wizkids has done. They may very well go with a 3/1/3/2 ship or something similar, very possible. I'm hoping they go with 4/2/4/3 named version to give the Romulans something they really need as far as I can see. A solid mid range crusier to support a Reman or form a decent squadron in itself.


I agree the different era stat numbers are off. I prefer era pure casual games for this reason. For mixed era, I was thinking about trying out using Red Armada dice for TNG ships and keeping red STAW dice for TOS. (Red Armada dice are: 2 blanks, 1 BS (accuracy), 2 hits, 2 crits, 1 double hit). This way you can keep the printed Attack values but TNG ships hit harder.
 
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Justin Hare
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A vulcan ship having the same attack as a D'deridex is more a symptom of the simplified stats used to speed the gameplay up. It causes the same issue of the delta flier having the same firepower as an excelsior.

Short of a game like star fleet battles or maybe a Stat Trek mod for Leviathans, you kind of have to accept some goofy results in ship stats.

Damn, now I want to work out a shield mechanic for leviathans and do this.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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Church14 wrote:
A vulcan ship having the same attack as a D'deridex is more a symptom of the simplified stats used to speed the gameplay up. It causes the same issue of the delta flier having the same firepower as an excelsior.

Short of a game like star fleet battles or maybe a Stat Trek mod for Leviathans, you kind of have to accept some goofy results in ship stats.

Damn, now I want to work out a shield mechanic for leviathans and do this.


True one poster wrote here or on FB that if they started with a range of 0-10 for PAV and 0-6 for agility and so on they could have shown the difference between ship classes better.
 
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Evan
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hadrian132 wrote:
kobold47 wrote:
hadrian132 wrote:
Really worried about timeline here.....LOL the big Vulcan ships and the enterprise TOS have the SAME firepower as a D'D and there just as old /older then the D7 model.


I have two ways of dealing with this.

The first is to keep in mind that attack value is not just a measure of firepower. The D'Deridex had a lot of disruptors on it, but how often did they actually use them in an all-out brawl? Heck, apparently it takes an Elite Talent just to fire all of them at once, and only Taris has figured out how to work the ones in back.

The second is to assume that the fights aren't necessarily as anachronistic as they seem. If the Khazara is attacking a fleet of old-timey Vulcan ships, we can treat those ships as though they were plucked straight from the 22nd century, or we can figure that they're what ships of that class would be like if they were in service in the 24th century, with whatever upgrades and refits that this implies.


Cant tell is that a agree with / disagree with what I wrote????? goo


A little of both? I agree that many of the stats feel wrong, but I think it's possible to rationalize away most of the apparent discrepancies.

But ultimately I think that if we do need to sacrifice a little "realism" for gameplay, that's for the best. I don't want a Constitution class that can conquer the entire Terran Empire.
 
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Justin Hare
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hadrian132 wrote:
Church14 wrote:
A vulcan ship having the same attack as a D'deridex is more a symptom of the simplified stats used to speed the gameplay up. It causes the same issue of the delta flier having the same firepower as an excelsior.

Short of a game like star fleet battles or maybe a Stat Trek mod for Leviathans, you kind of have to accept some goofy results in ship stats.

Damn, now I want to work out a shield mechanic for leviathans and do this.


True one poster wrote here or on FB that if they started with a range of 0-10 for PAV and 0-6 for agility and so on they could have shown the difference between ship classes better.


The downside of that is that you need a lot more dice and there are just higher numbers of dice to track. Both of these mean the game slows down. Overall I am in favor of the lower stat numbers in order to speed of the game. Yeah, we will get some goofy side effects though where ships that should absolutely not be equal become equal.
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Andrew Gallagher
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Church14 wrote:
hadrian132 wrote:
Church14 wrote:
A vulcan ship having the same attack as a D'deridex is more a symptom of the simplified stats used to speed the gameplay up. It causes the same issue of the delta flier having the same firepower as an excelsior.

Short of a game like star fleet battles or maybe a Stat Trek mod for Leviathans, you kind of have to accept some goofy results in ship stats.

Damn, now I want to work out a shield mechanic for leviathans and do this.


True one poster wrote here or on FB that if they started with a range of 0-10 for PAV and 0-6 for agility and so on they could have shown the difference between ship classes better.


The downside of that is that you need a lot more dice and there are just higher numbers of dice to track. Both of these mean the game slows down. Overall I am in favor of the lower stat numbers in order to speed of the game. Yeah, we will get some goofy side effects though where ships that should absolutely not be equal become equal.


I don't think this game could survive PAVs up to 10 - 6 attack dice is a big deal as it is, and with all the bonuses and tricks available, even 4 and 5 PAV can get into one-shot territory with smaller ships.
 
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Larry DeStefano
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Well all the stats would go proportional not just PAV and Agility. Hull and shields as well. I'm not a big fan for the idea but as a way of showing the difference between ship classes better it might work. But then the other issues of time and connvience come into play as well.
 
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hadrian132 wrote:
Well all the stats would go proportional not just PAV and Agility. Hull and shields as well. I'm not a big fan for the idea but as a way of showing the difference between ship classes better it might work. But then the other issues of time and connvience come into play as well.


I like the low numbers. A too large number of attack dice means you have even more variance in the results. It also means that the value of cards that add + attack die goes down.

The only change I would do is give every ship +1 defense die, except for the Borg Cubes (maybe Spheres and Diamonds, too) and DS9.

And I don't mind having a Vulcan ship with the same attack value as a Warbird. If you don't like it because it isn't "realistic", then you should't even have battling those ships in the same game because that's unrealistic as well

It's just a game. It also does't make sense that the ships can't usually attack from their rear arc or 360°. Also nearly every Federation has Photon Torpedoes, so why do they cost extra here? Why can 2 fleets run the same Picard? Why can't ships do a full stop? None of these makes sense but it is ultimately OK from a gameplay perspective.
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Ellis Norris
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My hope is that it keeps the BS the Groth comes with, and gets an Action bar or Tech slot bolt-on slot for the cloak
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Xander Fulton
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mathguy6189 wrote:
No way they give it 4 Attack and outclass the D'Deridex.

3
2
3
2
for 20 SP, TWWC just to be funny, and a 90/90 also for kicks.


Really can't imagine them giving it different stats than the D7. 3/1/3/2, 18 SP, TWC, and forward-90. Action bar should see a difference - delete the BS, add Cloak + echo.

Where it will really be different is in the cards it comes with. And here I'm scratching my head.

Best I can guess is we'd get Liviana Charvanek as an Admiral/Captain card, and Tal as a Captain card. Some generic crew, a tech of some mediocre kind, and more plasma torpedoes?
 
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