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Favor of the Pharaoh» Forums » Rules

Subject: Omen question rss

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Mark Erhardt
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The rules under Omen says, "After claiming this tile, immediately take another turn, rolling 1 standard die fewer to start it."

It's the "to start it" part that confuses me.

Does that mean I get that die back after the first roll?

If I have 5 red active dice and I claim this tile, I will take another turn immediately rolling 4 dice. Then, say I lock 1 die. Do I then roll 3 dice or can I roll all four of my remaining dice now? Thanks!
 
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Tom Lehmann
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MarkE13 wrote:
Does that mean I get that die back after the first roll?

No.

Quote:
It's the "to start it" part that confuses me.

I feel sad that you're confused, but I don't know how else to phrase this.

When you count out the dice you would normally roll to start your turn, you remove one standard die. You then roll the rest and take your turn normally from that point on. You aren't required to remove another die every time you roll your dice during this extra turn (which is how this power could be read if we didn't say "to start it" or used a phrasing such as "during it"). Omen alters how you begin this extra turn.

Similarly, quite a few tiles bring in dice *during* your turn. Omen doesn't restrict a player from doing this or alter the number you bring it.
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Mark Erhardt
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"I feel sad that you're confused, but I don't know how else to phrase this."

Ok ok, Tom. Way to kick a guy while he's down. I simply read too much into the "to start it" part of the rules. Sheesh! Lol.
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Tom Lehmann
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MarkE13 wrote:
Way to kick a guy while he's down.

That was certainly not my intention...

Sigh. Some days I just can't win on BGG. If I answer directly, I get criticized for "not being welcoming enough". If I attempt to empathize with a reader's confusion and try to explain the reasoning behind a wording, I get accused of berating the OP.

Oh, well. You can't please everyone.
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Dave Roy
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
MarkE13 wrote:
Way to kick a guy while he's down.

That was certainly not my intention...

Sigh. Some days I just can't win on BGG. If I answer directly, I get criticized for "not being welcoming enough". If I attempt to empathize with a reader's confusion and try to explain the reasoning behind a wording, I get accused of berating the OP.

Oh, well. You can't please everyone.


I, for one, don't think you've made any missteps. Just answer in the best way possible and don't worry about how somebody's going to react to it.

You know, short of saying "you idiot, didn't you read the rules?"

I plan on playing our first game of this tomorrow or Monday, and having seen these questions, I am ecstatic to see that we have official help with them.

Please keep them coming.
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Matt Hindmarch
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A piece of constructive criticism: The rule book for Favor of the Pharaoh is not well written. There are ambiguities. This is not the first thread on BGG where your responses have had a condescending tone. Your players are your customers.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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MHindmarch wrote:
A piece of constructive criticism: The rule book for Favor of the Pharaoh is not well written. There are ambiguities.

This is not *constructive* criticism; it is simply criticism.

Quote:
This is not the first thread on BGG where your responses have had a condescending tone.

I don't think I have said anything condescending in my posts above. Could you please give a concrete example?
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Matt Hindmarch
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It is constructive if you are open to it. How? Ask yourself questions raised by my criticism. Could I write less ambiguous rule sets in the future, or is this rule set perfect? If people have questions, could I answer them without ridiculing them or being defensive? Do I want to change the way I approach my primary purpose for being on BGG (to answer rules questions)?

Here is an example of an unambiguous statement: I will not buy another Tom Lehmann game.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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MHindmarch wrote:
Could I write less ambiguous rule sets in the future?

No rule set is perfect, for the simple reason that people vary in how they learn. I care deeply about rules and have worked with the publisher to update the FotP rules once already based on feedback from BGG. This file is available in the file section.

Once the publisher returns from Essen, I expect to do another round of updates.

I have not ridiculed anyone in my answers to rules questions.

Quote:
Here is an example of an unambiguous statement: I will not buy another Tom Lehmann game.

That is your prerogative. I rejoice that you will be harassing other designers and publishers, not me.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
MHindmarch wrote:
Could I write less ambiguous rule sets in the future?

No rule set is perfect, for the simple reason that people vary in how they learn. I care deeply about rules and have worked with the publisher to update the FotP rules once already based on feedback from BGG. This file is available in the file section.

Once the publisher returns from Essen, I expect to do another round of updates.

I have not ridiculed anyone in my answers to rules questions.

Quote:
Here is an example of an unambiguous statement: I will not buy another Tom Lehmann game.

That is your prerogative. I rejoice that you will be harassing other designers and publishers, not me.


Yes, yes yes. You are correct. Most designers don't even answer questions. I prefer those that do. Your answers have all been fine. Please continue. I will take up a collection to buy an extra copy of your next game to make up for the one you are going to potentially miss.
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Matthew M
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Antagonistic, insulting, or otherwise disruptive comments ARE NOT welcome here.

Please use the icon when you see disruptive or antagonistic comments or any other violations of the Community Rules. This serves two purposes:

1- using the icon will bring that post to the attention of forum moderators so they can deal with it appropriately. We prefer that you not respond to the post directly. Responding invites the offender to continue, and if you respond aggressively you may end up dragging yourself down with the offender.

2- if enough users flag a post using the icon then that post will be hidden from general view, preventing others from being exposed to it.

Thanks!
 
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Mark Erhardt
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Wow, I was simply making a joke when I mentioned about being kicked while down. I didn't really mean anything by it. I thought Tom's answer was more comical than offensive. I certainly wasn't offended. Love Favor of the Pharaoh. Great game!!!
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Tom Lehmann
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Thanks for your kind words.

Tone is often hard to gauge from just written words, which can lead to misunderstandings. There's no hard feelings on my end from anything you wrote.
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Ian Collier
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I think the rules are great, I think the game is excellent and I think you're an absolutely amazing designer. FOP is the most fun in gaming we've had all year, and it's been a spectacular year.
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Alan Kwan
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You guys perhaps don't know how tough it is to write a good set of rules. In my case, when I had to write the official rules for the mahjong tournament, I tried to write down a complete set of rules, starting from the basic playing rules of mahjong. That part amounted to a huge document, and everybody complained that the rules were too long to be readable, so I made a brief version summarizing only the main differences with 'typical' (local) mahjong rules.

In the case here, Tom could have written, "On that turn, subtract one standard die from the bunch of dice you get for your start-of-turn throw." and that might be a bit clearer, but if he were to do this for every little bit, it would make the rules significantly more wordy and actually harder to read for most. Actually, I do think my sentence above is actually harder to read for most people than Tom's, even though it is technically less ambiguous. BTW, I don't feel that Tom's sentence was ambiguous, but I do have "gaming experience" to help my interpretation. (The effect seems awkward if interpreted the other way.)
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