Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

The 7th Continent» Forums » General

Subject: German release? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tom Lee
Switzerland
Near Zürich (Kloten)
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I saw that there was something up on spieleschmiede but it disappeared. But at the same time I can't find it under "cancelled projects".

So...will there be a German release? Or should I back the English one?

Greetings
Duplexo
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stefan Kaiser
Germany
Kriftel
Hessen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am neither hoping nor am i waiting for a german version.

Take my money already ! ninja
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
flag msg tools
It's a fearful thing, to fall into the Hands of the Living God!
badge
Tell me, have you found the Yellow Sign?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, I for one will not bet on it.
While I am not a source of insider information, the game has an absolutely huge amount of work that would need to be done in order to localize it. Translation alone would be quite expensive (and extensive), with editing on top. The game would need to sell exceptionally well, to warrant that amount of money spent on localization. And that is quite the risk...
Also, even if it were localized, you would never be sure if it would get all expansions in German...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Felix Lastname
Germany
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What Dumon said, plus, 2/3 of the people who would be the target audience of this game in Germany won't care about language and already back the initial campaign (=> same as what happened with Cthulhu Wars, imho).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Lee
Switzerland
Near Zürich (Kloten)
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think a better question would be: Should I get rid of my monolingual friends?
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Durden
Germany
Goettingen
flag msg tools
Brettspielblog.net
badge
Visit my blog: www.brettspielblog.net
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
i talked to the designer two days ago and he said that there will be a german edition of the game, if a german publisher wants it.

Nevertheless i think that most of the german target audience is already in the kickstarter campaign. so i wouldn't wait for it.
Otherwise the same thing as with Innovation could happen, but finally it was released in germany (thanks Schwerkraft). Maybe Schwerkaft would be a good publisher for 7th Continent as well. Let's hope that Carsten likes the game
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
flag msg tools
It's a fearful thing, to fall into the Hands of the Living God!
badge
Tell me, have you found the Yellow Sign?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a huge difference between "Innovation" and this game, and most other games, to be honest. And that is the sheer number of INDIVIDUAL cards. This is a huge deal everyone keeps forgetting.

Only translating the 450 individual terrain cards of the base game, if we are harsh and allocate only 3 minutes per card (5 is more realistic), would take up 1350 Minutes. That is 22 hours of translation work, right there. Add to that roughly the same amount of time for editing and for "setting" the text, and we look at 66 hours of work for these cards alone.

And while there (unfortunately) are enthusiastic gamers who would do card translations for free, editors and graphic designers cost a hell of a lot of money per hour.

Add to that the other 300 cards, the expansion and Stretch Goal cards, and the rulebook, and you are in a ballpark of price figures where no publisher would easily venture. Selling huge numbers of this game would be a necessity to make this a financial success.

And, as againsto has said, a huge number of gamers that don't care about the language situation will already have bought the game, thereby shrinking the target group in Germany.

The question, then, becomes: how niche is this game? How widely accepted will it be? Is it a game that can sell to a wide audience?

This is a very risky thing for a publisher. The game could sell like the surprise hit "Robinson Crusoe", but it could also tank like "Polis", to speak about two games I know a little about.

So, who is gonna do it? Asmodee, Heidelberger, Pegasus? I doubt any of those. And Schwerkraft? I doubt he will take the risky plunge...

It's not about liking a game. Making, translating and distributing games is a business. And as a business, it has to be profitable. Many things (like additional expansions for tanking games, for example) are not...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Seidler
Germany
Cologne
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gimme 500 Euros and I will translate all the cards!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabian
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
I actually question if translating this game is really THAT expensive.
Sure, its a lot of content, but we have to consider some facts:

1.) Its french to german or english to german, together they are the TOP THREE languages in europe (source: wikipedia). That makes translating as cheap as it can get.

2.) They use pictures and icons for the terrain-sides of the exploration cards and most items. That saves lots of text. I can translate the rope and club with 5 words.

3.) It is not a huge text but very many small snippets of 10-30 words. And many of these are independent because they are fluff text like "The wind whistles through the branches of the tall pines, carrying both sea spray and putrid reeks.". Theres no need for templating or gameterm-consistency there.

4.) This wont be Shakespeare or Voltaire. It will be on the "easy" maybe "normal" end of the "difficult to translate" spectrum.

Whats left is the editing of the cards, i.e. the fitting of the text into the relevant boxes/spaces without losing too much space. Now if I'm not mistaken, French produces rather long texts, so most boxes will stay the same size or even shrink in size and the case of having to increase a box SO much that it actually poses a problem will not happen often, if at all. And on a technical level its really just that: changing the size of boxes with text in them.
In total, I would expect to be about as "hard" to translate as other text-heavy games like Arkham Horror or Eldritch Horror (both of which have german versions).

About the "everyone who is interested in it will have the KS" argument: I think thats invalid, because who plays The Others: 7 Sins, Zombicide, Kingdom Death or Cthulhu Wars? Hardcore gamers, nerds, geeks, call them what you want (if youre reading this youre probably part of one of the aforementioned groups). These games are made for you. You read reviews and inform yourself online. Youre up to date on games and youre there when the kickstarter... starts.
But 7th Continent isnt just for you. I could probably gift this game to my nephew (even without child characters). This is potentially a family game. A game for people who do have never heard of bgg, let alone would ever back a kickstarter. And thats a huge untapped audience, and a financially stable one at that.

If this game is as good as it promises, it will be released in german. And thats awesome.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian Kløve
Denmark
Hillerød
flag msg tools
badge
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I hate to tell you, but 7C will not appeal to non gamers. The play time alone (1000+ mins) will scare anyone but hobby enthusiasts away. This does not contradict that the game could be translated to German or Spanish or something else if the game delivers as promised.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. S.
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Duplexo wrote:
I think a better question would be: Should I get rid of my monolingual friends?

depends, does the process involve a shovel?
maybe more a question for your lawyer.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
flag msg tools
It's a fearful thing, to fall into the Hands of the Living God!
badge
Tell me, have you found the Yellow Sign?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fabian, in contrast to Felix and me you are (I guess) talking from the point of view of a lay person. Translation is more than throwing together a few words. Atmosphere, theme and, most of all, coherence of diction choices have to be taken into account.

I have worked on a quite card-heavy game (with 210 individual cards sporting card text), and even if the rest of the game took me way longer, the cards took their time, too.

To be honest, longer text paragraphs are sometimes way easier to translate than shorter ones, because you want to get the "feel" right. And that is harder with fewer words...

But coherence in phrasing and/or word choice is the clincher. You have to check and cross-check cards. That is where it takes quite some time. Sure, most is done with symbols on these cards. But the text still has to include all the clues, and has to refer to the same things (that other cards already referred to) with the same words.

Yes, Arkham Horror has abut 350 individual cards. And yes, the text on them is more than that on the cards of this game. But there are a few significant differences:
1. There was no Kickstarter
2. As Klove has said, the playtime is a clincher. AH has a long playtime, for sure, but it still ends on a gaming night.
3. When Arkham Horror was published, Heidelberger had already been established as their distribution/translation partner in Germany, and done a good job with titles like A Game of Thrones, Doom, Warcraft, and it was quite clear that a game like AH would be translated

It will be a huge risk for any publisher to localize this game. I am not saying it won't be done, and I am not saying it can't be done. I am also not saying it won't sell.
I am just saying that it is not clear as day that a German localization will be published, and I for one am sceptical if it will...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
FWIW: I have experience translating games with cards, and this game looks like translating it well would be a massive undertaking compared to most games with cards.

Dumon wrote:
Fabian, in contrast to Felix and me you are (I guess) talking from the point of view of a lay person. Translation is more than throwing together a few words. Atmosphere, theme and, most of all, coherence of diction choices have to be taken into account.

Also, because of the puzzle aspect of the game, some texts may require special care due to possible puzzle clues embedded in the text which may not be obvious when translating.

And besides the work of translating the card text, formatting them onto the cards is nontrivial (and sometimes error-prone) work which will require a lot of final proofreading.

Note too that in many games, a person who knows the game can check the card translations more easily just by reading the cards and knowing their effects, but here we have a huge number of cards, so no one is going to "know" them all. Plus in this kind of numbered-paragraph game, if a number somehow got messed up or swapped with another by mistake, it's not immediately obvious. Which all implies a much larger effort for proofreading.

(To say nothing of the rulebook itself; this game has some weird unusual concepts which need to be explained carefully & clearly.)
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabian
Germany
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
Dumon wrote:
But coherence in phrasing and/or word choice is the clincher. You have to check and cross-check cards. That is where it takes quite some time. Sure, most is done with symbols on these cards. But the text still has to include all the clues, and has to refer to the same things (that other cards already referred to) with the same words.

You are right, but I think that happens way less in this game as you expect. Most of what you say is solved with icons.
A typical example would be this duo of cards.
The word "raft" is never mentioned on the sea card, because the game works with the blue flag with the white square in it. Same goes for tasks and items helping with them.
The most obvious cross-card-consistency are the keywords on the bottom of idea cards and the references to them in texts. But have the fun property of being contextless, so that part can (almost) be batch-translated, i.e. search-and-replace.

Dumon wrote:

Yes, Arkham Horror has abut 350 individual cards. And yes, the text on them is more than that on the cards of this game. But there are a few significant differences:
1. There was no Kickstarter
2. As Klove has said, the playtime is a clincher. AH has a long playtime, for sure, but it still ends on a gaming night.
3. When Arkham Horror was published, Heidelberger had already been established as their distribution/translation partner in Germany, and done a good job with titles like A Game of Thrones, Doom, Warcraft, and it was quite clear that a game like AH would be translated

It will be a huge risk for any publisher to localize this game. I am not saying it won't be done, and I am not saying it can't be done. I am also not saying it won't sell.
I am just saying that it is not clear as day that a German localization will be published, and I for one am sceptical if it will...


I fail to see, why it being a kickstarter has any effect on translation of the game POST-RELEASE. And were talking post-release translation here, right? If not, youre of course right. German backer versions together with english/french ones is pretty optimistic. I think we should have clarified that beforehand :X. But when the game goes live (in french and english) and is a huge success, nothing would keep Heidelberger from localizing it and releasing a german version like a year later, maybe together with the french/english retail (I have no idea how long the it takes between ks fulfillment and going retail).

Also, with proper advertisement of the save function, the playtime shouldnt really be a big deal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
flag msg tools
It's a fearful thing, to fall into the Hands of the Living God!
badge
Tell me, have you found the Yellow Sign?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kickstarter does not impact the translation process, but the success of marketing it after the campaign.

Since you think translating these cards will be fairly easy, and not that huge an amount of work, I think we will never see eye to eye here. I think you are wrong in your assessment regarding how much work it will be, but that is my opinion, and it contradicts yours.

Now, my opinion does not make a German release impossible, were it right, it would just make it much more expensive, risky and less likely.

But I have said all I can say regarding this issue. Everything else, time will tell. However, I will not wait for a possible localization...
...what others do is not my concern - having voiced my opinion, the ball is now in their court...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. S.
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dumon wrote:
...
Now, my opinion does not make a German release impossible, were it right, it would just make it much more expensive, risky and less likely.
...

agreed, from my view it's less about the difficulty per card as the fact that you have to translate near to every item in this game (aside from a few standees) - with all the production steps that will entail.
I'm no expert on the production side, in particular in the second iteration of additional localizations, but that sounds difficult if you want to sell the game at roughly the same price as the original.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.