Recommend
15 
 Thumb up
 Hide
108 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 

The 7th Continent» Forums » General

Subject: Add-ons - Opinions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Gonçalo
Portugal
Oliveira do Hospital
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Today I posted the following in the comments of the new add-on (Fear the Devourers):

"When I saw this I got very excited... then I realized it was yet another add-on.

Come on the game is 89€ already...

We got a whole bunch of stretch Goals that I still don´t understand...because if the game is 700+ cards and we have 3 expansions... tottaling 1000+cards why are some of the SG cards such lower numbers...

As far as I know those strech goal can be fake and we are stretching for something that might have been already planned and included in the normal game. We can´t be sure!

Sometimes I get this conspiracy theory mindset... So I apologize if I´m wrong.

Anyway a whole bunch of minis, a thousand cards for 89€ and you charge 17€ for 30 cards and some minis?!

I would love to have it but I feel a bit cheated on this one ...Sorry..."



I was hoping to see what the general opinion is to see if I´m way off here...

Thank you
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moose Detective
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
Than Sense
badge
Is it a moose that became a detective ? Or a detective who searches for moose?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, its expensive, especially compared to the rest of the campaign. Yes, we're already spending 89E and now we're gonna get nickel and dimed by add-ons. Yes, all the stretch goals and add-ons were already planned and are being spread out/split up to keep the campaign going. (The giant rock worm that is the cover of the add-on has has its card image on BGG for months.)

Yes, that is ALWAYS the case with stretch goals / add-ons - the only other alternative are overfunded campaigns where they decide to promise something completely new and wind up being 3 years late.

Yes, being a completionist is a disease.



15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some will love it, some will hate it and the rest won't care one way or the other, just as always.

Personally I want to play (and hopefully love) the base game before I even consider buying more stuff. I have lost count of the games where I have bought expansions at the same time as the base game only to find the game is not for me. If I miss some stuff, c'est la vie.

Each to their own preference.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I disagree, you have to keep in mind all these stretch goals are IN ADDITION to the cards in the base game. Last I saw we had unlocked an additional 240+ cards via stretch goals so if you figure 1000 cards in the Explorer pledge that's almost 25% more game, I'm unsure what you have to complain about with that in mind. All the add on's are exactly that add on's, so you don't need them - if you feel they are priced too high for what you get you are under no obligation to buy it then.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gonçalo
Portugal
Oliveira do Hospital
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
@ Joshua Abel

True... you couldn´t be more right.

But don´t you feel that most people will want that particular add-on (as it seems to bring alot to the game and it looks so cool) and that it is way overpriced for what it is?

I understand you don´t absolutely need it but it would have been elegant to use it as a SG and 650000€ would certainly cover it...

Also most of the SG´s are a bit fiddly because miniatures are valued very far from their character cards and some of the terrain cards show really low numbers... If they were added and everything was already planned before... shouldn´t their numbers be higher?

In the end it´s a personal completionist problem... but even na OCD driven sucker like me disliked this strategy.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joshua
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cunha_neves wrote:
But don´t you feel that most people will want that particular add-on (as it seems to bring alot to the game and it looks so cool) and that it is way overpriced for what it is?


Hard telling not knowing; I don't know how much a run of 30 cards and mini's actually cost to make nor the time required for art, 3D rendering and game mechanics to make it all work. But of course I want everything for free too (and I'm not being sarcastic) ultimately though I understand there is likely more time and energy gone into the latest add on than say the cartographers notebook. However as they say "something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it"... And I'll be damned if I didn't up my pledge another 17 euros...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
30 cards and 7 minis? $18 seems right. Compare it to Descent monster expansions. How much are those?
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Tackett
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmb
I'm fairly against the paid add-ons, but am also torn because I don't 100% know if this is coming to retail, as it's not put on by a known publisher.

For something like Scythe, I know that will come out at retail and I'll pick it up at a 30% discount from CSI. If I knew for a fact that 7th Continent was coming to retail, I'd probably hold off on these add-ons (still in on the Early Bird). But since I don't know, my hands are kinda tied since I'm a completionist and the game does look like an amazing experience.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damian M.
United States
Santa Cruz
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I feel you. This campaign is starting to feel more and more like a CMON Kickstarter where elements that were always going to be included in the game have been stripped away, only so that they can be added later as "stretch" goals. Then "hey we just remembered we wanted to do this and now you're making it possible with just a few dollars more" add on options. Seriously though, it's a very calculated business model to attract backers, hook em, and then reel them in.

"What the hell, I'm already in for $100, what's $30 more? What's that, $10? Well, that's what I spend at the coffee shop, surely I can afford that! Another one? Well... I already have everything else, let's do it, besides it's just another $20 and I've already forgotten about the cumulative $200 I pledged last week, really, I'll just pack a lunch tomorrow."

Still in? I know, it's a sickness, and you can count me among the infirmed.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Phelps
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have a completionist streak in me, but it doesn't always kick in.

I'm considering the first add-on (Path of Repentance). It looks interesting, but I wonder whether it will get repetitive as I go through lots of save cycles. In the end I'll probably add it to my pledge.

I'm not planning to get the second add-on (the notebook), although I will print up a sample from their PDF to see how it looks. I have a pad of graph paper that will probably work just fine if I feel the need to map things out.

And I'm not planning to get this new third add-on (Fear the Devourers). I don't see it adding anything I desire to the game play.

I definitely like all the new item cards that have been added via stretch goals.

All of the cards from the stretch goals add to their base costs of development and manufacturing. These per unit costs are reduced as the number of games manufactured is increased (standard volume rate-break schedule). Given that they didn't know whether they would get pledges for 1,000 games or 10,000 games it makes perfect sense to set up all the extra cards as stretch goals.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wonder how much those complaining about this being game content removed for an addon actually know anything about game manufacturing or development. If you did, you'd know that's not the case. Maybe end the conspiracy theories and talk about what you know, not what you're making wild and unfounded guesses about.

XShagrath wrote:
I'm fairly against the paid add-ons, but am also torn because I don't 100% know if this is coming to retail, as it's not put on by a known publisher.

For something like Scythe, I know that will come out at retail and I'll pick it up at a 30% discount from CSI. If I knew for a fact that 7th Continent was coming to retail, I'd probably hold off on these add-ons (still in on the Early Bird). But since I don't know, my hands are kinda tied since I'm a completionist and the game does look like an amazing experience.


Are you backing this to support a company or get a game?
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlotte M-R
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm kind of pleased this one is an add on. I liked the Path of Repentance one and added for it, but this one I don't think I'm interested in. I don't really care about minis and the idea of rock snakes or whatever following me around kind of freaks me out. I'd just as soon not have them in the version of the game I'm playing.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. S.
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cunha_neves wrote:
...
But don´t you feel that most people will want that particular add-on (as it seems to bring alot to the game and it looks so cool) and that it is way overpriced for what it is?

mission accomplished - I mean an addon that nobody wants seems kind of pointless.

cunha_neves wrote:

I understand you don´t absolutely need it but it would have been elegant to use it as a SG and 650000€ would certainly cover it...

just saying SG values don't have necessarily anything to do with production costs. They just say at X$ you get Y.
The rest is more campaign strategy than anything else.
And from my point of view, addons that add a bit of game mechanics are less overpriced as a comparable set of terrain XY.

cunha_neves wrote:

Also most of the SG´s are a bit fiddly because miniatures are valued very far from their character cards and some of the terrain cards show really low numbers... If they were added and everything was already planned before... shouldn´t their numbers be higher?

...

from my understanding there are multiples for each number so by adding something to an low (and or existing) number you add variety/alternatives to it. That doesn't mean they weren't added later on - on the other hand I doubt we will see anything that hasn't been planned to a certain degree before...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Taylor
United States
Somerset
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah I"m out. Cancelling my pledge. If they are going to take things out of the game and charge extra for them..... This stuff should be stretch goals, not add ons.

Really made me mad with this "update" today. Thanks but no thanks. Sell your whole complete game in a box.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rui Serrabulho
Portugal
Lisboa
Lisboa
flag msg tools
badge
You have to, at least from a distance, look as if you know what you're doing, and I can manage that.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am out also!

KS with stretch goals and then adding constant add ons. Not for me.
It gets pretty expensive to buy all the stuff (I know that I can buy only the base game but I can´t).

Waiting for a year to get the game is also a problem for me.

It is a very successful kickstarter so for that matter congratulations.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Tackett
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmb
kelann08 wrote:
Are you backing this to support a company or get a game?

I'm backing this to get a game. I understand this game wouldn't get made without crowd-funding (unlike a plethora of other KS campaigns from large companies/designers, but I digress). I want these guys to be successful, but at the same time, I want the most for my money (as a consumer).

I would have probably been in without any stretch goals at all, but the paid add-ons feel a little tacky to me. I know this is pretty much the norm now, and this has been my first since 2011. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Baramon
msg tools
Game is gorgeous but at $100+ already and going likely to be 200 is insane to me. I'd probably grab my copy at Essen next year and will support Sword and Sorcery from Ares.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moose Detective
United States
Brooklyn
New York
flag msg tools
Than Sense
badge
Is it a moose that became a detective ? Or a detective who searches for moose?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Baramon wrote:
Game is gorgeous but at $100+ already and going likely to be 200 is insane to me. I'd probably grab my copy at Essen next year and will support Sword and Sorcery from Ares.


I bet Sword & Sorcery does the same exact thing - just like The Others - 7 Sins and Lobotomy and Folklore the Affliction and ... you get the idea.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Schott
United States
Roanoke
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I saw the add-on today and while I generally agree that these aren't stretch goals, I'm also okay with it being an add-on (as long as it's available for retail later). I'd much rather have a higher stretch goal for in-game content rather than "unlocking" another add-on pack. Reveal them in an update, but don't say that they're being unlocked. Now, if they decide that an add-on should be KS-exclusive, that's where it kind of crosses the line for me. I'm not a big fan of the exclusives in the first place for reasons others have mentioned. If one of those exclusives ends up really making the game shine, it's forever out of the hands of those who would want to play the game but missed the KS campaign.

So overall - fine with the add-on concept, but I wish they wouldn't treat them as something being "unlocked" by the campaign. They're either available or they're not. We won't get them just by backing the campaign and it seems likely that they're already designed if not completely fleshed out. Offer them through the campaign manager, announce them through updates, sell them at retail. I also get that economies of scale mean more people pledging before another stretch goal is reached.

For my part - not likely to spring for any of the add-ons but I don't have a problem with them being offered to keep the hype going a little. They definitely need something to keep their name out there as I think Scythe will be stealing thunder for a little bit.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
spunXtain wrote:
Yeah I"m out. Cancelling my pledge. If they are going to take things out of the game and charge extra for them..... This stuff should be stretch goals, not add ons.

Really made me mad with this "update" today. Thanks but no thanks. Sell your whole complete game in a box.


And where is your evidence that they are taking stuff out to make addons? Do you know anything about game development or production costs? You're making an accusation with zero information to back it up.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Game Steward
United States
Alexandria
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stevelabny wrote:
Baramon wrote:
Game is gorgeous but at $100+ already and going likely to be 200 is insane to me. I'd probably grab my copy at Essen next year and will support Sword and Sorcery from Ares.


I bet Sword & Sorcery does the same exact thing - just like The Others - 7 Sins and Lobotomy and Folklore the Affliction and ... you get the idea.


Well, I have some conflicted feelings about this campaign as a whole, but the fact that they are offering paid add-ons isn't my main concern. I don't see that as nickel and diming people if they can be purchased at retail later. It's not like buying a car where you have to decide what upgrades you want at the time you buy the car.

Moreover, I'm not sure why the timing of the release of expansions should make such a difference. In other words, if SP had waited to release these add-ons as separate expansions at the same time that the core game launches at retail, some people would complain that they *weren't* available in the KS. whistle

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Taylor
United States
Somerset
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kelann08 wrote:

And where is your evidence that they are taking stuff out to make addons? Do you know anything about game development or production costs? You're making an accusation with zero information to back it up.


They developed this add on at the same time they are developing the base game. They are making a conscious decision to charge extra for this piece of content, and not include it in the base game. Therefore, it is a fact that they are developing content to charge extra for at the same time the base game is in development. 100% non debatable fact. Thanks.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Donny Behne
United States
Fate
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
www.punchboardmedia.com/geaux-gaming/
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
spunXtain wrote:
kelann08 wrote:

And where is your evidence that they are taking stuff out to make addons? Do you know anything about game development or production costs? You're making an accusation with zero information to back it up.


They developed this add on at the same time they are developing the base game. They are making a conscious decision to charge extra for this piece of content, and not include it in the base game. Therefore, it is a fact that they are developing content to charge extra for at the same time the base game is in development. 100% non debatable fact. Thanks.


No, it isn't "100% non debatable fact". It's a lack of understanding.

Expansions for games are frequently part of the original game that gets removed because it A) adds rules complexity more appropriate for experienced players or B) adds cost to the base game pricing it out of the target zone. This content then becomes expansion content. Perhaps you should understand this before you accuse the creators of something dishonest.
36 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charlotte M-R
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
spunXtain wrote:
kelann08 wrote:

And where is your evidence that they are taking stuff out to make addons? Do you know anything about game development or production costs? You're making an accusation with zero information to back it up.


They developed this add on at the same time they are developing the base game. They are making a conscious decision to charge extra for this piece of content, and not include it in the base game. Therefore, it is a fact that they are developing content to charge extra for at the same time the base game is in development. 100% non debatable fact. Thanks.


YMMV but the designers spent years developing a game, then needed to make it into a viable commercial product. Which means deciding what to include and what not to include in order to charge the amount they think people will pay for the game. I'm not sure why people are so offended that bits of the game have been removed (the bits the designers decided were non-essential) in order to get the price point they wanted, then offered as add-ons for people who are willing to pay the extra for these non-essential bits. I, for one, am not willing to pay extra for creepy rock worm minis--but I'm not offended that other people are. Or that the designers made a decision to remove them from the base game.

So, I guess I agree with you re: them developing content with the base game and removing it. But I don't understand why it is an issue for you that they did. Designers are SUPPOSED to make decisions where they cut things for a variety of reasons--cost, gameplay bloat, lots of others as well.
18 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Baramon
msg tools
GD KS compared to CMON KS was more than fare. Just compare if you'll have a moment. Almost any CMON campaign is rip off, Blood Rage was surprisingly ok. I got my pledge with all the stuff for $116 and zombicide extra rubbish was over 200 something. I'm not saying it's bad to make money but CMON got that syndrome from FFG where almost every game you buy now is like: here is some stuff for $60, you want figures instead of card board and thing that should been in a box pay another $100.

Emagine if you would buy a stratocaster and it came only with 3 strings unlocked and you would have to pay extra something to unlock them.

Again i love this game i think it's breakthrough but their KS is rip off imho.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.