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Subject: Rules question - In Battle Roll of "Refuse to Fight" rss

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Brian Sinclair
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Under rule 7.5 there is no specific order given (other than the order written) that hits are applied before the "refuse to fight" results. However it is obvious that in the battle example (7.8) that hits are applied first.

My question is if this is correct. It would seem to be based on the period that a "refuse to fight" would mean they flee before battle, thus cannot be given a hit. The example indicates that the Native American unit is hit then put into the refuse to fight box.

If this is the correct order I can see this being "gamed" by bringing in Militia and Native Americans and having them take all the hits then send them to the refuse to fight without hitting on the regular units. Just doesn't seem right I think the "refuse to fight" results should be done before the hits.

Any thoughts?
 
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bill molyneaux
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Hello,

Refuse to fight rolls are constant thru each battle. Example the natives may hold firm for a few turns then your opponent may roll a refuse to fight roll and they are placed in the holding box.

Thank you
Bill
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Pepe Carrillo
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Brian, see rule 7.5, third paragraph from the bottom of that section. The last sentence in that paragraph states 'Hit results are applied before Refuse to Fight results'. The sequence makes sense since you rolled an amount of dice based on those units' participation. Had the term FLED been used instead, it would've been more appropriate in the sense that some units might've broken and ran AFTER receiving fire.
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Brian Sinclair
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Bill - thank you for the reply.

Pepe - Also thank you for the reply. As you stated it is clearer that "they flee after taking fire".

My feeling was that I looked at it as a possible way to game the system as you take a hit and move them out of the battle with leaving the regulars at possibly full strength.

Thanks again.
 
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Pepe Carrillo
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Brian Sinclair wrote:
Bill - thank you for the reply.

Pepe - Also thank you for the reply. As you stated it is clearer that "they flee after taking fire".

My feeling was that I looked at it as a possible way to game the system as you take a hit and move them out of the battle with leaving the regulars at possibly full strength.

Thanks again.




Brian - when the smoke clears, that is a good way to look at it!
 
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Brian Sinclair
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After playing it now is really clear. My guys refuse to fight after my opponent fires. It really stands out when going against a fort.
 
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Pepe Carrillo
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Brian Sinclair wrote:
After playing it now is really clear. My guys refuse to fight after my opponent fires. It really stands out when going against a fort.



Brian, the weird part is that both players are supposed to roll simultaneously - with only one set of dice... Right!
 
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Brian Sinclair
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msgt pepe wrote:
Brian Sinclair wrote:
After playing it now is really clear. My guys refuse to fight after my opponent fires. It really stands out when going against a fort.



Brian, the weird part is that both players are supposed to roll simultaneously - with only one set of dice... Right!



You are correct on this. There should have been two sets of dice. Or at least create a track or something to keep track of hits and refuse to fights. Easy enough one thing but add in two makes for mistakes. We just rolled separately and applied results.
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Pepe Carrillo
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Brian Sinclair wrote:
msgt pepe wrote:
Brian Sinclair wrote:
After playing it now is really clear. My guys refuse to fight after my opponent fires. It really stands out when going against a fort.



Brian, the weird part is that both players are supposed to roll simultaneously - with only one set of dice... Right!



You are correct on this. There should have been two sets of dice. Or at least create a track or something to keep track of hits and refuse to fights. Easy enough one thing but add in two makes for mistakes. We just rolled separately and applied results.


My buddy and I use two D6 each to track results against our units - red die for hits, white for 'flee'... or maybe yellow?
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Brian Sinclair
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msgt pepe wrote:
Brian Sinclair wrote:
msgt pepe wrote:
Brian Sinclair wrote:
After playing it now is really clear. My guys refuse to fight after my opponent fires. It really stands out when going against a fort.



Brian, the weird part is that both players are supposed to roll simultaneously - with only one set of dice... Right!



You are correct on this. There should have been two sets of dice. Or at least create a track or something to keep track of hits and refuse to fights. Easy enough one thing but add in two makes for mistakes. We just rolled separately and applied results.


My buddy and I use two D6 each to track results against our units - red die for hits, white for 'flee'... or maybe yellow?


Great idea I will do that next time.
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Eric V
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Agreed - the D6 are an excellent idea, Pepe!
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Pepe Carrillo
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EricTheFed wrote:
Agreed - the D6 are an excellent idea, Pepe!


Thank you, Eric. For an old fart, I have my moments!
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René Bouffard
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If I have 3 militia units with one strenght in a battle and I receive 2 hits and 2 refuse to fight rolls. After taking damage I have one unit left with one strength. Does that unit has to put in the refuse to fight box or the two units that died can be counted as 2 units who died while trying to avoid the fight.
 
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Pepe Carrillo
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bouf7972 wrote:
If I have 3 militia units with one strenght in a battle and I receive 2 hits and 2 refuse to fight rolls. After taking damage I have one unit left with one strength. Does that unit has to put in the refuse to fight box or the two units that died can be counted as 2 units who died while trying to avoid the fight.



Rene, units that are eliminated cannot be used to satisfy Refuse to Fight rolls. Your surviving unit has to go into the box. As I pointed out in an earlier comment, paragraph 7.5 states 'Hit results are applied before Refuse to Fight results'
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