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Subject: Germany Strategy: The Sucker Punch rss

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wodan wodan
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This strategy delivers a lethal sucker punch. Russia gets to be the sucker. It is presumed that Russia takes no German territory other than West Russia (if they have, Russia is seriously overextending itself and will probably die horribly anyway).

1. On Land
A. Move all tanks that can reach Karelia to Karelia. That would be six tanks if use the transport to take one from Western Europe
B. Move all infantry that can reach Karelia to Karelia. That would be nine infantry if use the transport to take one from Western Europe
C. Leave 1 infantry in Ukraine. Move the rest of the infantry in Ukraine, the Balkans, and Germany to Eastern Europe. There should be 7 infantry there now.
D. Move the artillery in Ukraine to Eastern Europe
E. Move the 1 remaining tank in Western Europe and the tank in Southern Europe to Eastern Europe
F. Move the Infantry and Artillery in Southern Europe to either Western Europe or Germany (probably Western Europe).
G. If not picked up by transport, Algerian units join up with Libya units, which stay in place. If this is done, it is most likely that F will be optimal if it chooses Germany, not Western Europe

2. On Sea and Air
A. Have the battleship and transport off Southern Europe attack the British Battleship off Gibraltar.
B. Have the bomber in Germany join in that attack, then fly it to Eastern Europe or Germany after.
C. Have the fighter in Western Europe join in the attack, then fly it to Eastern Europe
D. All other fighters attack Karelia, then return to Eastern Europe.
E. Leave the Baltic fleet where it is, except the transport, which moves to sea zone 6 to pick up an infantry and tank from Western Europe before returning to the Baltic and dropping off the units in Eastern Europe.
F. The transport may pick up units and from Algeria or Libya and move them to Western Europe

3. Attacks
Karelia: 9 Infantry, 6 Tanks, 5 fighters, vs. unknown defense
Gibraltar Coast: 1 Battleship, 1 Bomber, 1 Fighter, 1 Transport

4. Production
A. Build 8 tanks.
B. Collect another 40 IPCs

5. Final Unit Positions
Karelia: 6+ Infantry, 6 tanks
Eastern Europe: 7 Infantry, 1 Artillery, 2 Tanks, 6 Fighters
Germany: 8 Tanks
Western Europe: 3 Infantry, 1 Tank
Additional units to either Germany or Western Europe: 2 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Libya: 1 Infantry, 1 Artillery
Ukraine: 1 Infantry
Norway, Algeria, Belorussia, Balkans, Southern Europe: NOTHING

6. Defensive Plans for following turn.
A. On the next turn, reinforcement of Southern Europe with infantry and Germany with more tanks will likely happen, thus protecting from British invasion of Southern Europe and ensuring that a successful invasion of Western Europe will not last for very long.

6. Outcome
It should be pretty obvious what happens next:

If Russia attempts to attack Karelia in force, it won’t be able to use infantry in Russia and Caucasus, thus likely resulting in at best a suicidal attack that kills every last one of their tanks and fighters.

If Russia attacks Ukraine in force, they will be counter attacked by up to 16 tanks, as well as 7 infantry, and artillery, 6 fighters, and a bomber

If Russia attacks Belorussia in force, they will once again not be able to bring infantry from Russia and Caucasus, and will be attacked by up to 16 tanks, 13 infantry, 1 artillery, 6 fighters, and a bomber

If Russia doesn’t attack in force, attack Archangel with Karelian Force and advance into Ukraine with Eastern European force, leaving one infantry behind to hinder enemy advancement. Fighters and Bombers can be deployed on either front

If Great Britain doesn’t block sea zone 6 or 12, reunite the German Fleets in sea zone 7, leaving a fleet of 1 battleship, 1 destroyer, 2 subs, and 2 transports

If Great Britain blocks sea zone 6, attack with Baltic fleet and/or air force, Mediterranean fleet stays in place, waits till next turn before it can join with other fleet

If Great Britain blocks sea zone 12, attack it with Mediterranean fleet and the bomber (which can return to Eastern Europe) and at least 1 fighter(which will be stuck in Western Europe). Baltic Fleet stays in place, waits till next turn before it can join with other fleet

In short, Russia is pincered between two heavily overpowered forces, with by the end of turn 3, one can reach Russia’s Capital, the other Caucacus. Great Britain is simply stalled long enough to prevent it from having much of an effect. It is expected that Norway will be captured and possibly Western Europe, but Germany’s solid navy and ready air force can handle it. Land units built on turns 2 and 3 will assist in this and pick off any Russian force that mistakenly believes it can just can sneak between the two pincers in order to stall Germany

It is probable that Russia will be very dead by the end of the 4th turn, with Germany surviving British pressure. Great Britain will likely have its attentions diverted away from India and Australia and towards seizing Western Europe and Norway, leaving Japan to easily flatten the American fleet while it can take India and China with ease and threaten Russia’s underbelly and Africa.


 
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wodan wodan
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I was presuming a small assault on West Russia that would leave lots of troops in both Karelia and the Caucasus. For Russia to launch an assault on West Russia that massive, they would have to empty out most of their frontal territories. If they did this, they would likely get slaughtered anyway.

More importantly, the Karelian force would probably have all 9 of the attacking infantry survive, resulting in the following turn 2 battle:

Defense Strength Average Kills per round
9 infantry 2 3
6 tanks 3 3

Offense
6 infantry 1 1
6 inf/art combo 2 2
6 tanks/fighter 3 3


second round
3 infantry 1 more kill
6 tanks 3 more kills

6 inf/art 2 more kills
6 tanks/fig 3 more kills

third round
4 tanks 2 more kills

2 inf/art 1 more kill
6 tanks/fig 3 more kills

Russia would win 80% of the time, at the cost of all their infantry and artillery near the front lines.

If Russia concentrated its forces in western russia, more German infantry would be left in Ukraine, which wouldn't be attacked if Russia wanted to have any hope of taking Karelia, and would allow an easy capture of the caucasus using eastern europe's 2 tanks and 6 fighters along with a piddling of infantry, while the 8 tanks in Germany would flatten the karelian force with the eastern european infantry

Rearranging Russia's forces doesn't make it any less daunting to take the the german forces, especially since they go first and Germany can alter strategy to counter

Russia
16 or so infantry, 4 tanks, 3 artillery, 2 fighters, and 24 IPC income

Germany
16 infantry, 8 tanks, 1 artillery, 6 fighters, 1 bomber and 40 IPC income


 
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Robert Hanawalt
Czech Republic
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It all sounds so great on paper. I don't know, I'd be more than willing to give this strategy a go the next time I play Germany. But for now, I just see Germany as the worst choice of countries to play in this game because they simply cannot make a powerful punch the first turn. Britain and its navy are too well insulated by sea zones and Germany's naval and air forces are too far out of position to do any harm to the Brits the first turn. Consequently, what ends up happening in our games is that Britain is able to mass a powerful fleet off its shores in the first two turns, and by the fourth turn, is landing ground forces in the Baltic States or Karelia via the Baltic Sea. Britain is thus able to handle Germany alone in Europe, freeing the US to concentrate on Japan.

Germany is cursed in this game by these factors:

- It's sea and air forces cannot attack those of Britain in the North Sea the first turn
- Britain is too geographically snug, with two sea zones between its naval forces and those of Germany
- The German U-boats are vulnerable to British air strikes.

This last factor is particularly repelling to me. In the Europe and Pacific games, air units cannot attack subs without a friendly destroyer present in that sea zone. This rule works perfectly, not only because it's more realistic, but because subs are more effective. But this rule does not exist in this new revision of the classic original, so subs are worse than useless.
 
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wodan wodan
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I was finally able to play a game utilizing the strategy. Germany exterminated Russia, singlehandedly wiping out 40% of the russian army in Caucasus and the 50% of the russian army in Russia on turn 3. (I'm basing this on my memory of unit builds, but having difficulty coordinating that with memories of unit positions)

As expected, Great Britain was the worst threat to Germany. It sent its entire indian fleet off to the mediterranean, while it added to its fleet off of Britain. The 6 fighters and 1 bomber of the german airforce nestled in Eastern Europe could attack either, but regardless of what was attacked the other force would seemingly break through. I decided to obliterate the northern british fleet with my airforce and baltic fleet, resulting in the death of all naval units there. In the Mediterranean, the German Battleship and Transport moved to the coast of Southern Europe to protect it from incursion from the british fleet. Then I built an aircraft carrier with two fighters on it. While great britain would land in Western europe turn 2, I built a large pile of infantry and artillery to block invasion of Germany. I still lost about half of my forces there, but if I had realized the threat to Germany, my remaining air units would have tried to make it back.

While the die rolls were in my favor, they wouldn't have mattered much. I didn't lose a single tank during the massive turn 3 assault, but I could have easily lost a dozen of them and 2/3s of my air force and still won, or I could have just crushed Russia without worrying about the Caucasus. In short, the margin of error the dice creates were insufficient to suggest the possibility of defeat, given the margin of victory.

Japan, by the way, took China and Eastern Russia early, didn't bother to take India, and wasted the American fleet, thus keeping them both more or less out of the picture in regards to the European theatre.

To describe more specifically what happened, look below

Turn 1
A. Russia doesn't attack and builds up
B. Germany commences punch utilizing West Russia forces as well (then again, in turn Russia had more forces as well), goes as planned.
C. [Germany builds 8 tanks.]
D. Britain build northern navy and sends indian navy on warpath to Germany

Turn 2
A. Russia launches halfhearted stabs at the territories Germany left exposed, but aren't stupid enough to launch an attack and instead keep defensive while hoping that Britain can save their bacon
B. Germany causes northern fleets to wipe each other out thanks to its airforce, forces move one step deeper, with the forces condensed in along an Archangel/West Russia/Ukraine frontline (I think it was 2 of them, with the last having only an infantry).
C. [Germany builds an aircraft carrier with two fighters in mediterranean]
D. Great Britain lands on Western Europe, America sends some support but not much.

Turn 3
A. Russia concentrates its forces in Caucasus and Russia
B. Germany wipes out both of them easily.
C. [Germany builds a large mess of infantry and artillery in Germany]
D. Great Britain attacks and fails to take the German Capitol

Allies concede game


The Germany Airforce is not to be underestimated. It is big, and can be sent to any front on a whim if used right.




 
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Svend Kristian Kinch
Denmark
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You all seems to play pretty defensive with Russia!

When I play Russia, I prefer to attack West Russia with 9 inf, 1 art, 1 armor and Ukraine with 3 inf, 1 art, 3 armor and 2 figthers. If you feel lucky you can move one armor from Ukraine to West Russia.

For my first buy is 3 inf and 3 armor. In the non-combat phase i move 2 inf to Russia from Evenki and 2 inf to Caucausus from Kazakh.

This give me a front against Germany with about 2 armor in Ukraine, 5 inf, 1 art and 1 armor in West Russia and 5 inf, 1 armor in Caucausus. the figthers has landed in Kaakh. The last 2 armor is placed in Moscow, so there is 2 armor and 2 inf.

The advance of this strategy is that I only have two force that germany can attack, and in both cases I can counter attack with my intire russian army.

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Svend Kristian Kinch
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You all seems to play pretty defensive with Russia!

When I play Russia, I prefer to attack West Russia with 9 inf, 1 art, 1 armor and Ukraine with 3 inf, 1 art, 3 armor and 2 figthers. If you feel lucky you can move one armor from Ukraine to West Russia.

For my first buy is 3 inf and 3 armor. In the non-combat phase i move 2 inf to Russia from Evenki and 2 inf to Caucausus from Kazakh.

This give me a front against Germany with about 2 armor in Ukraine, 5 inf, 1 art and 1 armor in West Russia and 5 inf, 1 armor in Caucausus. the figthers has landed in Kaakh. The last 2 armor is placed in Moscow, so there is 2 armor and 2 inf.

The advance of this strategy is that I only have two force that germany can attack, and in both cases I can counter attack with my intire russian army.

 
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Mathew Gibson
Canada
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The Tick wrote:

Germany is cursed in this game by these factors:

- It's sea and air forces cannot attack those of Britain in the North Sea the first turn
- Britain is too geographically snug, with two sea zones between its naval forces and those of Germany
- The German U-boats are vulnerable to British air strikes.

This last factor is particularly repelling to me. In the Europe and Pacific games, air units cannot attack subs without a friendly destroyer present in that sea zone. This rule works perfectly, not only because it's more realistic, but because subs are more effective. But this rule does not exist in this new revision of the classic original, so subs are worse than useless.


You need to stop playing with the very broken basic rules (or even LHTR 2.0). In the basic rules, far too many aspects of the game are essentilly worthless or overpowered.

Submarines have almost no value in the basic rules. You use them because you start with them, but that's about it. Even if you only bring in a few variants, you must play with a variant that permits sebs to submerge before combat with only air units.

Bombers. Bombers involved in Naval Combat? Nonesense. This is terribly inaccurate and overpowred. Their flying range of 6 and hit range of 4 mean they are almost as powerful in naval combat as a Battleship unit. Quite apart from the fact that bombers played no role in naval encounters. I urge you to play with the simple variant that Bombers cannot be involved in Naval combat.

These two rule changes alone can make a different to Germany's early game prospects, and even make their two sub-related National Advantages useful.
 
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Teon Banek
Croatia
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Didn't want to start another thread, and this one seems appropriate...

What's the best way for Russia (and rest of Allies, but mainly Russia) to counter Germany producing only (8+) tanks per turn?
One of my friends in our sessions builds only tanks when playing Germany and so far his strategy proved to win him the war...

P.S. Remember that we are inexpierienced in A&A. This is our first A&A boardgame, and so far we've had 4 (10 city victory) sessions
 
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Mathew Gibson
Canada
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It does depend on whether you are playing with National Advantages or not, or any variants. Let's assume not ..

If Germany is producing only Tanks then it is pursuing the Russia strategy. This strategy needs to kill Russia in the first 3 or 4 turns. If it does not, then Germany will lose, as it has shot its bolt and the Allies are about to take Western Europe and roll them.

Obviously, as soon as Germany signals this strategy, Commonwealth and US builds ought to be focused on D-Day.

So, Germany will have a lot of tanks. It cannot replace them after the second turn in any meaningful way, because they cannot get to the front lines and actually help in an attack on the capital.

First, you are building 8 INF each turn, only. Defend the Caucasus, as you don't want Germany building tanks there (a totally broken park of the game IMO).

The best way to defeat this is by letting the Germans expose their tanks. Eventually these are going to concentrate them in a province. Strike back with everything you have and destroy as many of the tanks as possible. This will blunt the attack and enable you to survive until Germany is forced to turn back and defend the West.

It comes down to the Dice Gods.
 
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