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Subject: What happen with the Airship Upgrade? rss

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Kris Ardianto
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Yesterday I received an email from Ruth Cumberbatch from EGG regarding notice that I should upgrade to Air shipment which I must need to pay $17 from the already regular one $34 (I live in Asia, Indonesia) so the package would be deliver faster and less risk in damage for they will not be taken responsible if the package is damaged using the regular shipment.

Anyone receive this kind of email?
I don't like this and replied to their email but haven't received any feedback. Is this kind of thing normal?

Please help. Thanks.
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M.C.Crispy
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vardamir wrote:
Yesterday I received an email from Ruth Cumberbatch from EGG regarding notice that I should upgrade to Air shipment which I must need to pay $17 from the already regular one $34 (I live in Asia, Indonesia) so the package would be deliver faster and less risk in damage for they will not be taken responsible if the package is damaged using the regular shipment.

Anyone receive this kind of email?
I don't like this and replied to their email but haven't received any feedback. Is this kind of thing normal?

Please help. Thanks.
Normal? It's outrageous! If this wasn't stated upfront then it's completely unacceptable to suggest it 'post facto'. Of course, when it comes to it, you really have no choice - but that's what EGG are relying on. But a $59 game with $51 shipping? Wow!
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Kris Ardianto
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mccrispy wrote:
vardamir wrote:
Yesterday I received an email from Ruth Cumberbatch from EGG regarding notice that I should upgrade to Air shipment which I must need to pay $17 from the already regular one $34 (I live in Asia, Indonesia) so the package would be deliver faster and less risk in damage for they will not be taken responsible if the package is damaged using the regular shipment.

Anyone receive this kind of email?
I don't like this and replied to their email but haven't received any feedback. Is this kind of thing normal?

Please help. Thanks.
Normal? It's outrageous! If this wasn't stated upfront then it's completely unacceptable to suggest it 'post facto'. Of course, when it comes to it, you really have no choice - but that's what EGG are relying on. But a $59 game with $51 shipping? Wow!


Yes, I feel that way too. Are you also a backer? What I don't understand is, if this isn't normal, why no buzz here on BGG or on KS page?
I've pushed quite hard to back this project with $93 include shipping.
It's not a small amount of money for me and backing this project shows that I really appreciate the designer and the game. It's something that I really cherish. Getting $34 shipping quote wasn't that easy. It took me a lot of considerations to back this game from the start. And also I have to deal with the possible custom tax when the shipment arrives.
Now, before they actually ship the game, they told me to pay additional fee to upgrade into Air Shipment service, or it would take longer and risk of damaged that they refuse to cover with the regular shipment. Is this a joke?

What I recall EGG is not a small publishing company and they already have many experiences with shipping and completing customer's orders. I could see this case might happened but they should have insight about this cost way way back even before they declare the international shipping in their KS project.
Now I wonder what considerations that they took when they decide to go with $34 instead of the full amount of $51 in the first place? If they're a small publisher and new to the business, I could spare a few understanding, but it still their responsibility.

I don't have a problem to get my copy little more longer than it should, what I cannot accept is how they "threat" me to upgrade or else (damaged package without guarantee). If this facts are presented for me in the beginning of the KS project, this could make a difference whether I would back the game or not. But, they choose to inform me about this after I pay my pledge and right before they ship the package to me? Is this seriously how EGG do their business? What kind of business practice is this? I feel being fooled. Yes I already paid them aside from my approval just so because they hold me on the neck, my game is on the line and I just want this to be over. I paid that damn $17 and hope I can hold their word that they would take responsible for damaged package from air shipment (which clearly doubtful since they proven cannot be trusted with their words only).

Now, I immediately replied the email and up to now still no respond from them. I also posted a comment in the KS page and contact Rick via PM from KS. But no reply.
Even the upgrade payment is lack of information. If I upgrade, when they will actually ship the game? How long it takes to arrive to my place? When is the deadline for me to make a payment for upgrade shipment? None...

I think I lost faith in EGG. This is worse than producing a game with low quality, or delaying the completion of a project. This is a straight lie or point a gun to me and tell me to hand over my money or else.
I can refuse but then what happen to my game? So I am forced to take that option.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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I would be very curious to see the email and how exactly they formulated this.
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M.C.Crispy
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vardamir wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
vardamir wrote:
Yesterday I received an email from Ruth Cumberbatch from EGG regarding notice that I should upgrade to Air shipment which I must need to pay $17 from the already regular one $34 (I live in Asia, Indonesia) so the package would be deliver faster and less risk in damage for they will not be taken responsible if the package is damaged using the regular shipment.

Anyone receive this kind of email?
I don't like this and replied to their email but haven't received any feedback. Is this kind of thing normal?

Please help. Thanks.
Normal? It's outrageous! If this wasn't stated upfront then it's completely unacceptable to suggest it 'post facto'. Of course, when it comes to it, you really have no choice - but that's what EGG are relying on. But a $59 game with $51 shipping? Wow!


Yes, I feel that way too. Are you also a backer? What I don't understand is, if this isn't normal, why no buzz here on BGG or on KS page?
I've pushed quite hard to back this project with $93 include shipping.
It's not a small amount of money for me and backing this project shows that I really appreciate the designer and the game. It's something that I really cherish. Getting $34 shipping quote wasn't that easy. It took me a lot of considerations to back this game from the start. And also I have to deal with the possible custom tax when the shipment arrives.
Now, before they actually ship the game, they told me to pay additional fee to upgrade into Air Shipment service, or it would take longer and risk of damaged that they refuse to cover with the regular shipment. Is this a joke?

What I recall EGG is not a small publishing company and they already have many experiences with shipping and completing customer's orders. I could see this case might happened but they should have insight about this cost way way back even before they declare the international shipping in their KS project.
Now I wonder what considerations that they took when they decide to go with $34 instead of the full amount of $51 in the first place? If they're a small publisher and new to the business, I could spare a few understanding, but it still their responsibility.

I don't have a problem to get my copy little more longer than it should, what I cannot accept is how they "threat" me to upgrade or else (damaged package without guarantee). If this facts are presented for me in the beginning of the KS project, this could make a difference whether I would back the game or not. But, they choose to inform me about this after I pay my pledge and right before they ship the package to me? Is this seriously how EGG do their business? What kind of business practice is this? I feel being fooled. Yes I already paid them aside from my approval just so because they hold me on the neck, my game is on the line and I just want this to be over. I paid that damn $17 and hope I can hold their word that they would take responsible for damaged package from air shipment (which clearly doubtful since they proven cannot be trusted with their words only).

Now, I immediately replied the email and up to now still no respond from them. I also posted a comment in the KS page and contact Rick via PM from KS. But no reply.
Even the upgrade payment is lack of information. If I upgrade, when they will actually ship the game? How long it takes to arrive to my place? When is the deadline for me to make a payment for upgrade shipment? None...

I think I lost faith in EGG. This is worse than producing a game with low quality, or delaying the completion of a project. This is a straight lie or point a gun to me and tell me to hand over my money or else.
I can refuse but then what happen to my game? So I am forced to take that option.
The word "bully" gets bandied about quite a lot when referring to particular EGG personnel. You are amongst a growing number of folk who have lost faith in EGG; I have backed my last EGG project - I shan't back the Vinhos Deluxe Edition when it happens (despite the fact that I want to support Vital Lacerda as a designer) and I certainly wouldn't touch a project to reprint Brass: Lancashire if they ever run it.

I looked at the information on the project page and the only thing that might justify this action is this quote from the Shipping section
Quote:
We will not ship to Russia, the Ukraine and select other places except for specially-made arrangements wherein the Backer takes the risk involved in receiving the package.
Of course they don't specify those "select other places" and they didn't contact you until after you were "locked in" - that you have made us aware of. Pretty sucky if that's the full story.
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Kris Ardianto
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tublefou wrote:
I would be very curious to see the email and how exactly they formulated this.


This is the content of the email sent to me.
Quote:
Hi,

We are planning to ship the Gallerist this week. You have currently paid $34 for shipping, but this only covers the cost of surface shipping which takes 30-45 days, and we cannot take responsibility for damaged parcels. Air shipment costs an extra $17. If you would like to pay the difference to upgrade to air, please make the payment of $17 via Paypal to Paypal@eagle-gryphon.com
Please put your Kickstarter name and "Gallerist air shipping" in the memo field.
 
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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Interesting, thanks.
 
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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Or you could be looking at it the other way around.
Maybe it's the first time they ship to Indonesia, and faced the issue at the last minute. They could also have sent the game through the standard method without giving you the possibility to upgrade or without warning you about the potential issues.

However, I admit that the email goes straight to the point and could (or even should) have been made more friendly.
 
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M.C.Crispy
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tublefou wrote:
Or you could be looking at it the other way around.
Maybe it's the first time they ship to Indonesia, and faced the issue at the last minute. They could also have sent the game through the standard method without giving you the possibility to upgrade or without warning you about the potential issues.

However, I admit that the email goes straight to the point and could (or even should) have been made more friendly.
The bit in the email that is the big red flag to me is the "we cannot take responsibility for damaged parcels". Why not? Surely all other shipping methods include an acceptance that the sender is responsible for ensuring that the customer receives product in perfect condition? Airfreight should just be expedited shipping, not the only way to guarantee perfect condition product.
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Thibaut Palfer-Sollier
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Maybe they have been recently reported about bad experiences when using this method to ship to Indonesia.
To my knowledge, the transportation company is responsible for the condition in which the package is received, not the sender. If the package is received with no visible damage but the content is still damaged, then it is the responsibility of the sender.
 
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mccrispy wrote:
The bit in the email that is the big red flag to me is the "we cannot take responsibility for damaged parcels". Why not? Surely all other shipping methods include an acceptance that the sender is responsible for ensuring that the customer receives product in perfect condition? Airfreight should just be expedited shipping, not the only way to guarantee perfect condition product.


I'll just chip in and say that, when I ordered copies of Manila from Zoch Verlag directly and they arrived here damaged (due to zero padding and plenty of room for the games to bounce around in the box), Zoch Verlag gave me a partial refund that I found to be satisfactory/commensurate. I understand that as a matter of procedure and covering their asses EGG wouldn't want to take on the responsibility of ensuring unknown international mail handlers wouldn't mess up their shipments, but EGG could stand to gain a loyal following and improve upon their reputation if they were to offer this kind of assurance--or continue to build ill will and see their name besmirched.
 
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James Mustafa
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nice of you to bring this up kris.. screw you EGG
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Shane
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There is no possibility of this being a scam? That the email isn't actually from EGG at all? (and a $17 payment goes to someone other than EGG?)

If it is from EGG, although there have been a few suggestions for legit reasons for the email, I don't like it. I wouldn't pay it.
 
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SD40 wrote:
There is no possibility of this being a scam? That the email isn't actually from EGG at all? (and a $17 payment goes to someone other than EGG?)

If it is from EGG, although there have been a few suggestions for legit reasons for the email, I don't like it. I wouldn't pay it.
You wouldn't? So you'd take the risk that a game into which you'd already sunk $93 would arrive destroyed, or not at all - for the sake of $17?
 
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SD40 wrote:
There is no possibility of this being a scam? That the email isn't actually from EGG at all? (and a $17 payment goes to someone other than EGG?)

If it is from EGG, although there have been a few suggestions for legit reasons for the email, I don't like it. I wouldn't pay it.


If it really is EGG that emailed you on this there should have been something about this much earlier. I'm very suspicious of some sort of scam with a misdirection of the $17 payment.

You might want to try to contact EGG through the contact us feature of their website rather than the simple reply to the email so you are sure your question goes to EGG.
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Kris Ardianto
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pawnpusher wrote:
SD40 wrote:
There is no possibility of this being a scam? That the email isn't actually from EGG at all? (and a $17 payment goes to someone other than EGG?)

If it is from EGG, although there have been a few suggestions for legit reasons for the email, I don't like it. I wouldn't pay it.


If it really is EGG that emailed you on this there should have been something about this much earlier. I'm very suspicious of some sort of scam with a misdirection of the $17 payment.

You might want to try to contact EGG through the contact us feature of their website rather than the simple reply to the email so you are sure your question goes to EGG.


Well, they replied. But this only said that they already received my payment and answering my other question. But not regarding my complaint about their practice.
 
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vardamir wrote:
pawnpusher wrote:
SD40 wrote:
There is no possibility of this being a scam? That the email isn't actually from EGG at all? (and a $17 payment goes to someone other than EGG?)

If it is from EGG, although there have been a few suggestions for legit reasons for the email, I don't like it. I wouldn't pay it.


If it really is EGG that emailed you on this there should have been something about this much earlier. I'm very suspicious of some sort of scam with a misdirection of the $17 payment.

You might want to try to contact EGG through the contact us feature of their website rather than the simple reply to the email so you are sure your question goes to EGG.


Well, they replied. But this only said that they already received my payment and answering my other question. But not regarding my complaint about their practice.


Thanks for letting us know.

You may want to add a post to Scams, Delays, and Shady Ways. A guide to who to watch out for before hitting purchase.
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Kris Ardianto
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Guess what, I will not back Vinhos KS. Thanks to EGG....
I just wait that on retail. No risk, No rick! whistle
 
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vardamir wrote:
Guess what, I will not back Vinhos KS. Thanks to EGG....
I just wait that on retail. No risk, No rick! whistle
I doubt very much whether you are in a minority of one.
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Wow, you all really need to calm down.

All they're doing is saying that if you pay a bit more for shipping, you'll get it faster and safer. That's a standard for every type of shipping everywhere. It's not a threat, it's not bullying, it's not saying your package will be destroyed if you don't. They're nice enough to tell you up front that the surface shipment, though much cheaper, is undependable.

I don't like EGG's business practices any more than anyone else but this is NOT something to call them out for.
 
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Magic Pink wrote:
Wow, you all really need to calm down.

All they're doing is saying that if you pay a bit more for shipping, you'll get it faster and safer. That's a standard for every type of shipping everywhere. It's not a threat, it's not bullying, it's not saying your package will be destroyed if you don't. They're nice enough to tell you up front that the surface shipment, though much cheaper, is undependable.

I don't like EGG's business practices any more than anyone else but this is NOT something to call them out for.

Not when it happens long after the campaign is over. You don't spring extra cost on backers when it's all said and done. Kris had the reasonable expectation of safe shipping guaranteed by EGG for the cost agreed upon during the campaign. To later say that said shipping method isn't safe nor guaranteed and to ensure safe arrival Kris has to pay more is sketchy to say the least.

There are a lot of exaggerated complaints about EGG out there (although where there's this much smoke there's definitely fire). This isn't one of them.
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This is my first time owning an EGG game and it looks great. As for fulfillment, I can only assume they may not have dealt with shipping out a game of this quality in such a large capacity before. We can just hope they have learned from the Gallerist and are better prepared for handling Vinhos.

I had some email correspondence with EGG when trying to find reasonable shipping rates. They were willing to work with me and even send one directly from China to reduce the rate even more. However, a really nice friend Picked the game up at Essen for me.

I really don't want to share in the hate for their business practices, especially when there are humans on the other end of that hate trying to do the best they can for their backers. It sucks that people had to spend extra. But they made a difficult decision to charge more for quality shipping rather than have your really nice and expensive game damaged in transit. That would have probably caused more hate in the long run.

Anyways, these are just my thoughts. I really hope they don't have the same issues with their current campaign.
 
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Kris Ardianto
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MentatYP wrote:
Magic Pink wrote:
Wow, you all really need to calm down.

All they're doing is saying that if you pay a bit more for shipping, you'll get it faster and safer. That's a standard for every type of shipping everywhere. It's not a threat, it's not bullying, it's not saying your package will be destroyed if you don't. They're nice enough to tell you up front that the surface shipment, though much cheaper, is undependable.

I don't like EGG's business practices any more than anyone else but this is NOT something to call them out for.

Not when it happens long after the campaign is over. You don't spring extra cost on backers when it's all said and done. Kris had the reasonable expectation of safe shipping guaranteed by EGG for the cost agreed upon during the campaign. To later say that said shipping method isn't safe nor guaranteed and to ensure safe arrival Kris has to pay more is sketchy to say the least.

There are a lot of exaggerated complaints about EGG out there (although where there's this much smoke there's definitely fire). This isn't one of them.


Let me elaborate. I am a reasonable man. I like this hobby and everything in it, though sometimes not everything is good.
I respect publishers, they work hard to deliver us gamer with good quality games and components. Of course all of these bad experiences wouldn't happened if only:

1. They didn't inform me about the extra payment on shipping or upgrade so late in the completion. Why this cannot be in one of the KS updates? If you say it's too late for KS update and need to be handle immediately, well then too bad, that's not how professional work. Researching the cost for shipping and all the risk are always a crucial part in this business and I expect they did this when they declared the shipping cost before we pledge it. If they made a mistake with the estimation and maybe change of fee, it shouldn't be that long. Again it should be in KS update.

2. They started the message with an apology, to show their goodwill. And also they explicitly stated that:
Quote:
You have currently paid $34 for shipping, but this only covers the cost of surface shipping which takes 30-45 days, and we cannot take responsibility for damaged parcels. Air shipment costs an extra $17. If you would like to pay the difference to upgrade to air, please make the payment of $17 via Paypal

This would mean that they charged shipping cost in KS with damage possibility and they wouldn't even responsible? And guess what, when she said the air shipping upgrade, she's not even mention that they would be responsible for damage parcels and that it wouldn't be damaged. The thing is, I already paid for what is listed and they want to charge more saying it's for my interest.

3. If they make this as transparent as it could be. When I got the message, I was surprised and checked the KS comment and updates. But no hint and clue at all about this. And then I checked the game thread on BGG but no result, so I posted here to find out if someone else got the same treatment. And I guess not all of the backers got it. So I assumed it's area based. Once again, if they post updates...

At last it's not about money. I'm not rich but money is not everything. Of course this game is already expensive and in my country getting board games is not easy, you need to import games from outside, and we don't have that many stores like in US or Europe. We only have several and they're small online stores. It's like they're personal sellers. So getting games inside has high shipping cost and not to mention the customs are bad in my country. Getting a $40 game with a shipping of $50 is not right (at least for most of us). So when The KS launched and I checked it offered a good shipping rate than the most of EGG games. And based on that consideration I backed the game. But almost a year after I paid for it, they said I need to pay more without any regrets and apologies, well that's how I found it outrageous.
This is my first experience with EGG and it's bitter. So that's it, I am done with their KS because dealing with them is too damn risky.
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