Gold Sirius
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Kaitlin's wormholes increase range between characters. Ok.
So when I would move ONE space, adjacent to a wormhole marker, what happens? I move onto the wormhole and it disappears? And if I would move TWO spaces, I would still only move 'one board space' and the wormhole would disappear? And if there were two wormhole markers in two different adjacent board spaces, moving 3 OR 4 spaces would still land me in the same spot, is that correct?

Doesn't she completely change the game and make it nigh impossible for most characters to win against her? She can't be reached!

Also, on her character card, it reads: some effects can cause a player to end up standing on a Wormhole Marker.

Really? Like what? Swap places? How can that make you stand on a marker? WHO can stand on a marker in the first place? They disappear when a player would move into a Wormhole Marker, so how could a 'swap places' make you end up on a marker? Can Kaitlyn stand on her markers and not make them disappear? I know it says there are no benefits or penalties when Kaitlyn stands on top of a Wormhole Marker. But how can she, since a player into a Wormhole makes it disappear?

For Endrbyt his Vent base reads This attack has +1 Power and -1 Priority for each Energy Token in your Token Pool
So, basically, Priority works with reveal. But then, if you SPEND tokens during the beat for whatever reason with a style, does the attack power change accordingly or do you keep the power obtained through reveal?

Thank you.
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GoldSirius wrote:
Kaitlin's wormholes increase range between characters. Ok.
So when I would move ONE space, adjacent to a wormhole marker, what happens? I move onto the wormhole and it disappears? And if I would move TWO spaces, I would still only move 'one board space' and the wormhole would disappear? And if there were two wormhole markers in two different adjacent board spaces, moving 3 OR 4 spaces would still land me in the same spot, is that correct?

Whenever you would spend a movement "point" to move onto a space with a Wormhole, ignore that point of movement and remove the Wormhole instead. When advancing 4 into a pair of Wormholes, you remove the first Wormhole, then move forward 1, then remove the second Wormhole, then move forward 1. If you advanced 3, you would still remove both Wormholes but would only move forward once.

Note that this definition causes "swap" effects to fizzle (e.g. Karin), and causes "move directly" effects to just remove a target Wormhole instead.

Quote:
Doesn't she completely change the game and make it nigh impossible for most characters to win against her? She can't be reached!

Kind of, but not as badly as you think. It does require a different playstyle, and if you don't have a character that hard counters her you need to prevent her from getting her Wormholes rolling, or you will take a lot of damage getting back to even ground. On the other hand characters that have a way to get to her efficiently, or have high-range options, tend to destroy her without trying too hard.

Alternatively if you have a friend who refuses to play anyone else, just counterpick Clinhyde every time.

Quote:
Also, on her character card, it reads: some effects can cause a player to end up standing on a Wormhole Marker.

Really? Like what? Swap places? How can that make you stand on a marker? WHO can stand on a marker in the first place?

Old-school Pulse is the main (and I believe only) edge case here. Since it is a "rearrange" and not a "move", it is not subject to the rules of Wormhole Markers.

Quote:
I know it says there are no benefits or penalties when Kaitlyn stands on top of a Wormhole Marker. But how can she, since a player into a Wormhole makes it disappear?

If you keep reading her UA, it also says: Kaitlyn may choose to selectively ignore the effects of individual Wormhole Markers when she is moving and calculating range.

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But then, if you SPEND tokens during the beat for whatever reason with a style, does the attack power change accordingly or do you keep the power obtained through reveal?

Stats can change, they just only matter is certain specific circumstances. Priority can change during a beat, but it is only ever measured between Reveal and Start of Beat. Similarly, Power can change during a beat, but it is only ever measured between On Hit: effects and application of damage. (And to complete the trio, Range only matters between Before Activating: and hitting the opponent. In the event that it matters at any other time, e.g. Lymn and Ottavia, it is re-evaluated at that time and always measured toward the opponent. If that didn't make sense, don't worry about it for now. Just know that most stat bonus effects are applied when they matter. For example you'll usually see +Power effects as On Hit: and never as On Damage: because your Power has already taken effect when damage was applied in the first place.)
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To answer your question about Endrbyt directly, you should just calculate your Power and Priority at the moment they're needed, i.e. Priority after Reveal, and Power after all On Hit: effects. So if you have low Energy during Reveal and then gain Energy during your On Hit, you can end up having decent Priority and Power. On the other hand if you have high Energy during Reveal and then spend it during On Hit: or Before Activating:, you'll have low Priority and low Power.
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Marco Santos
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GoldSirius wrote:
Kaitlin's wormholes increase range between characters. Ok.
So when I would move ONE space, adjacent to a wormhole marker, what happens? I move onto the wormhole and it disappears? And if I would move TWO spaces, I would still only move 'one board space' and the wormhole would disappear? And if there were two wormhole markers in two different adjacent board spaces, moving 3 OR 4 spaces would still land me in the same spot, is that correct?


In short, if you were adjacent to a Wormhole and were to advance into it, you'd remove the marker, but stay where you are. Effectively, the Wormhole just eats your movement.

If you advance 2 spaces into the Wormhole, you remove it using the first space of movement, then you'd move into the space where it used to be with the 2nd space of movement.

If there were 2 adjacent markers, and you move 3 or 4, it would look like this:

YWWOO

Y-You
W-Wormhole
O-Empty Space

Advance 3:
YOWOO
OYWOO
OYOOO

Advance 4
YOWOO
OYWOO
OYOOO
OOYOO

As you can see, this ends up with you essentially moving 1 space more with move 4. In short, the wormholes just effectively reduce the number of spaces you move by 1.

GoldSirius wrote:
Doesn't she completely change the game and make it nigh impossible for most characters to win against her? She can't be reached!


She doesn't really change the game much. She just makes the board "bigger." Characters with tons of movement and good range still do wonders against her. Kaitlyn has piss poor stats and she'd lose a fight really easily. Effective use of Dash is tantamount to wrecking her.

GoldSirius wrote:
Really? Like what? Swap places? How can that make you stand on a marker? WHO can stand on a marker in the first place? They disappear when a player would move into a Wormhole Marker, so how could a 'swap places' make you end up on a marker? Can Kaitlyn stand on her markers and not make them disappear? I know it says there are no benefits or penalties when Kaitlyn stands on top of a Wormhole Marker. But how can she, since a player into a Wormhole makes it disappear?


This clause is a recognized error. Swap doesn't actually do this. So, the clause is basically "meaningless." It's there to catch probable future characters.

As for the other question, Kaitlyn CAN stand on her own markers. As per her UA, she can choose to ignore her Wormholes when moving/calculating rage.

GoldSirius wrote:
For Endrbyt his Vent base reads This attack has +1 Power and -1 Priority for each Energy Token in your Token Pool
So, basically, Priority works with reveal. But then, if you SPEND tokens during the beat for whatever reason with a style, does the attack power change accordingly or do you keep the power obtained through reveal?


It's a passive effect, so the Power fluctuates depending on your Tokens.

Edit: Ninja-ed by Tankbard.

Also, aside from Clinhyde, anyone with Direct movement or "Advance until adjacent" just wrecks her.
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Daniel DeMars
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A note on playing against Kaitlyn (I sub-main her, btw) - even if you don't have hard counters to her (specifically, Advance Until Adjacent, Direct Movement, and Range), (1) hugging the center and (2) stunning her frequently (which is not super difficult, since she's fairly slow and has no additional Stun Guard) will make her life tough. Also, positioning/not letting her set up is more important than damage (especially since she's pretty weak until she sets up). Also, don't Pulse while she still has the Special Action card (if you're playing with the SA).

The biggest issue Kaitlyn has vis a vis her balance (and why I only sub-main her) is that, especially in certain matchups, she punishes any misplays really hard. If the opponent fails to hug the center and lets her set up, she can pretty much guarantee victory three or four beats in advance. At high level play, in certain matchups, her games can become a series of definitive tossups, which is admittedly somewhat strange (though very very tense).

An example would be this PbF game from the last league season (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1311895/league-3-bracket-2-...) where I played Kaitlyn and was nearly beaten by a masterfully played Lixis, despite that being a pretty favorable matchup for Kaitlyn.

Edit: Incidentally, that was a near loss because had I made the wrong play on Beat 7, I probably would not have survived.
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I have to agree with a lot of Daniel's points. Kaitlyn's a weird, polarizing character. If you don't have the tools, she'll just run circles around you.

However, that, in no way, means she's OP or very strong. It's just that SOME match-ups are heavily skewed in her favor. The number of those match-ups is relatively small. She has a near equal amount of match-ups that are heavily skewed AGAINST her (Demitras and Clinhyde).
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Daniel Honig
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Regicide shake
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Everybody can stand on a wormhole marker! Kaitlyn's Telepresent allows her to place a wormhole marker. That placement doesn't have to follow the rules that apply to her placement via UA. So she can put one below the opponent, where, as indicated by the UA, it does nothing.
The other situation that comes to mind is Tanis using her UA to take the place of a puppet on a wormhole.
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Daniel DeMars
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Phyr wrote:
Everybody can stand on a wormhole marker! Kaitlyn's Telepresent allows her to place a wormhole marker. That placement doesn't have to follow the rules that apply to her placement via UA.


As written, you are correct, but I expect the intention was that this placement follow her UA rules as well. I'll see if I can get a ruling from Brad on this.
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Since Kaitlyn isn't tournament legal, it's not too much of an issue either way, but the intention is that it follows normal rules, even though it uses a different terminology. (someday, in Devastation Revised...)
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Kyokai wrote:
Since Kaitlyn isn't tournament legal, it's not too much of an issue either way,


Are you saying Kaitlyn will never be tournament legal?
Is it possible to find the reasons as to why some characters are not legal?
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GoldSirius wrote:
Kyokai wrote:
Since Kaitlyn isn't tournament legal, it's not too much of an issue either way,


Are you saying Kaitlyn will never be tournament legal?
Is it possible to find the reasons as to why some characters are not legal?


I don't know if she'll never be tournament legal, but I recall Brad deciding to exclude her from the tournament lists because she has some very lopsided matchups (as I mentioned). This could be fixed if an entire season was constructed around accommodating her (basically, choosing only characters that she has about %50 win rates against), but that would be a bit weird.

EDIT: Other characters are not legal because:
Ottavia and Arec: Are generally OP, and will hopefully get nerf patches soon-ish.
Endrbyt: Requires too much pre-match setup time and doesn't currently have a viable reference card option (though, to be fair, neither does Joal - but Endrbyt's is more problematic).
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Kaitlyn in her current form will never be tournament legal unless the format is radically altered. Matchups just don't work right for her.
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Daniel DeMars
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Andarel wrote:
Kaitlyn in her current form will never be tournament legal unless the format is radically altered. Matchups just don't work right for her.


I'm not convinced this is the case - do we have matchup data on her? My understanding is she isn't in the AI because the difficulty of programming her wormholes (which I imagine has something to do with how lopsided her matchups are). I guess I would be surprised if one couldn't come up with 20 or so characters with about even odds against her. You could even come up with ten characters with even odds and ten with hard counters and she would still be playable in the current format (pick three, ban one, best of one, double elim). Sure, she would kind of define the meta, but there's an argument to be made that Adjenna defines the meta for the current season.
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Brad Talton
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Kaitlyn isn't as bad as most people think to play as or against. She tested well when we were building Devastation, and need not be avoided for casual play or for non-sanctioned tournaments.

The only real issue is that her matchups are a bit more favored and unfavored, meaning that she is either going to be banned or useless in most cases in a tournament. TBH, we could probably allow her and it would be fine--you would just see more of Demitras and Heketch being played.
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